Struggling to hit calories
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Getting quite tired of reading "How'd you get fat in the first place if you can't reach a calorie intake" that are regularly in these type of threads. Ever heard of making a life choice to only eat health foods? Eat processed foods for a week, then switch to fresh foods for the next week. Even if you eat the same amount of calories both weeks, the difference in energy is incredible. Low nutrient, high calorie food makes you feel like crap and it's hard to eat 1500+ calories a day of fresh food because it's so filling.
Processed does not mean "low nutrient and high cal." Processed food is really varied.
A healthy diet does not mean eating only low cal foods. Foods I think add a lot to any healthy diet are avocado, nuts and seeds, legumes, all of which have a decent amount of calories. Other foods include olives, olive oil (or some other oils) if you choose to use them, various starches (whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes), meat, full fat dairy and cheese. Heck, a smoothie with lots of vegetables, some fruit, some protein powder and maybe some nuts can easily be 500+ cal, and not difficult to consume (because you drink it). Yes, I realize protein powder is processed, as is greek yogurt, smoked salmon (also not hard to consume lots of cals of) and so on.
If people struggle to eat 1000 calories below what they were used to eating, it isn't because they just aren't hungry enough. It's because they feel wrong eating if they don't feel like the absolutely need to or are being overly restrictive (if any food seems indulgent, even a little cheese in an omelet, some olive oil in a dressing, some nuts on a salad, skin on chicken) it's bad and to be avoided. OR, if they really feel like they can't choke down more than a calorie level that would give them, say, a deficit of 1500, there's something wrong going on, a medical or psychological issue (which luckily is not nearly so common as the former).
The "how did you gain weight then" thing is, I think, a good reality check when someone is going along the lines of "it's SO MUCH FOOD, how can you eat 1200" (or whatever the calorie level is, more here, obv).5 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...1 -
nowmartin2001 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Love the "how'd you get fat in the first place if you can't reach a calorie intake" people. I'm so tired of reading that line on here. Ever heard of eating healthy foods only? Eat processed foods for a week, then switch to eating fresh foods for the next week. Even if eat the same amount of calories, the difference in energy is incredible with high nutrient fresh foods. v
OP: Just do what works, ignore the "always eat at least X amount of calories" stuff. If you aren't feeling constantly hungry, you aren't under eating enough to cause problems.
"Healthy foods" have calories too. Some of them, in fact, are quite calorie dense. And there are plenty of processed foods that are pretty reasonable calorie-wise. This distinction makes no sense to me.
The problem is some people can't control proportions when it comes to non-filling high calorie snacks like Almonds. What works for you, may throw another person completely off their diet.
What does some people having difficulty practicing portion control with almonds have to do with your statement about eating healthy foods only? It actually undercuts your position -- almonds are, by almost any perspective, a "healthy food." Yet someone who includes almonds in their diet may find it very easy to meet or even exceed a calorie goal, especially if they aren't monitoring their portions.
Yes, what works for me might throw someone else off their plan. That's a completely different thing than what you claimed earlier.
(Also, almonds being "non-filling" isn't a universal thing. Some people find the combination of fat and protein in nuts to be quite satisfying).
Because in my opinion, calorie dense foods are not healthy for me. They are only healthy if ate in extremely small proportions, which I am unable to do because it doesn't fill me and only gives me more "hand to mouth" addiction movement that got me fat in the first place. Snacking is an absolutely no for me.
Someone can claim any food is healthy, and they wouldn't be wrong. Almost everything is healthy in moderation. Doesn't mean that someone wants it in their diet.
So you're using a personal definition of healthy that excludes all foods that are calorie-dense?
This may work for you, but it's not a workable solution for everyone. In fact, it can lead to cases like the one OP is having, where someone is unable to meet their caloric needs because they're practicing so much food restriction.
You don't have to want something in your diet to accept that for some people it is a healthy food. I have reasons I would never eat Greek yogurt or salmon, but that doesn't meet they don't help other people meet their nutritional needs.
So when you say something to a group of people like "Ever heard of eating healthy foods only" and you're using a idiosyncratic definition of "healthy" that eliminates perfectly healthful foods like almonds or avocados or coconut or olives or dark chocolate or bananas, it might be helpful to make that clear.
I am just giving my take on what could be OPs problem. He didn't exactly give us a lot of information and the people telling him "how'd you get in fat in the first place then" are not helpful. I'm am explaining WHY cases like this happen, because I had the same problem as OP.
I guess I got fat in the first place as I found it much much easier to eat calorie dense food more often. I'm finding it a bit harder to eat up to my recommended calorie amount now that I feel that I'm eating healthier and more nutritional food. I just done seem as hungry as I used too. I maybe didn't make my opening post as imformative as i could have.
You sound a lot like me.
I went from eating 3000-5000 calories a day and always being hungry, to eating 1000-1500 calories a day and never being hungry. My doctor told me it was "hand to mouth" addiction, basically if I wasn't snacking my body thought I was hungry even though I wasn't. This was especially bad at night and when watching TV. I cut out snacking completely, first few weeks were very hard (thought about food constantly), but then it got easy and now I rarely feel hungry. Even a little bit of food makes me full now, I usually don't finish my meal. The pounds are flying off (3.5/week), and I know if I start snacking or "cheat" with some really good tasting food I will fall off the wagon so I simply just deal with it. I lift weights to help minimize muscle loss, and so far I've only noticed improvements to my strength.
Overall the advice on these forums is good, but I was not happy with the advice I was given when I had your exact same problem. Most people just don't understand how or why someone can go from vastly overeating to struggling to eat enough.
If you can handle snacking, go for it. Otherwise, I would keep doing what your doing even if you are losing more than suggested. Lift HEAVY weights to minimize muscle loss, and take a multi-vitamin to ensure you get enough of everything.jessiferrrb wrote: »
I answered the question asked. How about the people who simply stated "How'd you get fat in the first place then?". Stuff like that is rude, so I had to address it because stuff like that is constantly posted on here. I stated how it's possible to be in OPs situation, and then I told him what I would do.
Take it or leave it. OP situations may not be the same as mine, but I can relate to him because I had the same problems. I was also given the same "how'd you get fat in the first place" BS when I posted about it.
i guess, but OP's question was about not getting enough calories and your first answer was don't worry about it. which isn't great advice considering the effects of under-eating are well known and not fun.
OP: Just do what works. If you aren't feeling constantly hungry, you aren't under eating enough to cause problems. If you are concerned about not getting enough of a certain vitamin, take a multi-vitamin.
and your second answer was to cut out all calorie dense foods. which seems like the opposite of what was asked. i'm not trying to call you out really, and i agree about that some posters are rude. i just don't get the logical jump from the original question to the answers.
My logical jump was telling a food addict to "eat more" high dense calorie foods can be a slippery slope. The first time I lost 32 pounds in only 2 1/2 months, I was given advice to eat more because 2 pounds/week when you only have 20 pounds left to lose is "too much".
Guess what happened? I did exactly that. I started snacking because I wasn't hungry enough for full meals. A year went by, and I was back to my old habits and weight. I am still losing that extra weight and I will never take that advice again. If I am full, I don't force myself to eat even if I am below the recommended calories for the day.1 -
nowmartin2001 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »nowmartin2001 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »nowmartin2001 wrote: »Thanks for the replies everyone. I understand that I have obviously eaten more than 1790 calories to have gained weight in the first place. All my meals were very bad and since I've started eating better quality foods and higher levels of protein I feel a lot more full all of the time. I guess I will just eat more even if I don't feel too hungry.
Stop thinking food is good or bad, that'll help...
Would you not consider takeaways and pre made foods etc as bad? Or is that still approaching things from the wrong direction?
No. Takeaways are high in fat (generally) and so are more calorie dense, so I have to take more care to fit them in my week calorie and macro goal, but that doesn't make them bad, it makes them yummy.
The majority of food is pre made these days unless you farm your own livestock etc. So of course it's not bad.
When I said pre made I meant microwave meals and ready meals. I think instead of bad foods I should have used the term unhealthy. I feel like it was easier for me to eat say 800 kcal worth of unhealthy takeaway/McDonald's type food. Than to eat 800 kcal worth of healthy nutritional food. I'm very confident that I will get to my goals sooner rather than later
Pre made is really varied. I don't really consume it because I like my own cooking better, and it tends to have fewer veg (and often less protein) than I like, but you can get frozen meals that have pretty decent nutritional profiles. I do think lots of people who ate a lot of them while gaining probably were not choosing that carefully, but that doesn't mean being a frozen meal makes something nutritionally poor (or high cal, of course, many are actually quite low cal).
Takeaways in the US can be really varied in nutritional profile too (I can get an Ethiopian meal that is based on vegetables and lentils and quite nutritious, some really good quality Asian and Italian meals -- and some lower nutrient ones, of course -- sashimi, curries based on lots of vegetables, salmon kebabs with vegetables and baba ganoush that has a pretty darn good nutritional profile, so on). I really limit that stuff because it's still all much higher cal than I want, but the nutrition isn't bad and I wouldn't call it "bad food" or not healthy.
I think it makes sense to think of overall diet, not specific foods, being bad or good. A good diet does not have excessive calories (based on goals) OR too few calories, is satisfying and enjoyable, and hits your nutritional requirements. For me that's easier basing it on a lot of homecooked foods and eating as seasonally as possible (although I let that go somewhat now for the next few months, as little is seasonal when it comes to produce). A poor diet would be off (too low or high) with calories, not nutritionally sufficient, not satisfying or enjoyable, so on. Always going for the lowest cal or least indulgent food doesn't seem balanced to me, although for some it might work. (Just some thoughts.)2 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
All of This^^0 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
I completely understand and agree with the wisdom of temporarily limiting foods that one struggles to moderate (or even doing it long-term if that works for someone). But OP's triggers/potential triggers probably don't include *all* calorie dense foods and tyrindor has shared that they define all calorie dense foods as personally unhealthy. If that works for them, I'm not going to knock it. But it's probably much more restrictive than OP needs to be, especially since OP is looking for ways to meet their calorie needs.2 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.1 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.0 -
magster4isu wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.
I honestly think most times this is said it's meant to jolt people out of the (too common) mindset that we have to eliminate all calorie-dense foods or completely transform our eating habits in order to lose weight.
When you see someone post things like "I can't eat that much food" or "I don't understand how anyone can get to [x calories] a day," it can be helpful to remind them that, yeah, they can. All of us (all of us who came here out of a desire to lose weight, anyway) ate more than we needed at one point.
Maybe this particular phrasing is a bit more blunt than some of us would choose, but when someone is insisting that they can't eat more than 1,200 or 1,500 or whatever per day, it can be useful to remind them that -- unless they have a recently developed medical issue -- they can and have.7 -
I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
Sure, but he's hijacking the thread in assuming OP's problem is the same.
I also started with undereating. My approach to cutting calories (which I had only done once before) was to cut way down on indulgent foods. I cut out snacking (I don't do well with snacking anyway), and ALSO cut way down on added fat, starchy carbs (I had cut out added sugar by cutting out snacks, mostly), anything that seemed indulgent and thus unnecessary (cheese, most nuts, so on). I wasn't hungry, I was fine for the first few weeks of my diet (felt good, happy about losing weight and taking control). When I logged on MFP, I was genuinely shocked to learn that I was eating around 900-1000 cal. At first I thought "but I'm fine, not hungry, feel good, should I eat more? I don't need to, and aren't high cal foods unhealthy and unnecessary?" But then I realized that I'd do better eating more for health and also for sustainability (as I intended to do this for life in some form or another). So I added back in small portions of the "indulgent" foods (a little cheese, some nuts, bit more olive oil, occasional chocolate after dinner, chicken with skin, some steak, sometimes a homemade burger even with a bun, a little more fruit), was still eating a really nutritious diet with plenty of protein and lots of veg at 1250, and did not find that I was not able to choke all that food down (a thought that crossed my mind exactly never).
Based on that, as I started exercising more, I increased calories accordingly and lost most of my weight at 1500-1600. I didn't eat the things that were really calorie-bombs pre weight loss (the "takeout" examples I listed, for one example, other than on a much much rarer occasion), but I think it's possible for the vast majority of people to learn to have sensible healthy diets with reasonable amounts of calories -- as is required if maintenance is going to be a goal.
tyrindor seems to be saying that the choice is excessive overeating or crazy low cals, and I really don't think that's an issue for most, even most like me (and maybe OP?) who may start by overdoing how restrictive they are and undereating because they don't quite know what the right amount is and assume that if they aren't actively hungry maybe eating is bad (that again was a thought that bothered me -- if I can make myself not hungry on 900 cal, should I really eat more? IMO now, that thought, if not checked, could easily become quite dangerous).5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.
I honestly think most times this is said it's meant to jolt people out of the (too common) mindset that we have to eliminate all calorie-dense foods or completely transform our eating habits in order to lose weight.
When you see someone post things like "I can't eat that much food" or "I don't understand how anyone can get to [x calories] a day," it can be helpful to remind them that, yeah, they can. All of us (all of us who came here out of a desire to lose weight, anyway) ate more than we needed at one point.
Maybe this particular phrasing is a bit more blunt than some of us would choose, but when someone is insisting that they can't eat more than 1,200 or 1,500 or whatever per day, it can be useful to remind them that -- unless they have a recently developed medical issue -- they can and have.
Yeah. I understand the intent. And maybe you're right and it's just the phrasing that bugs me. But everytime I read it, it seems like the person is implying that the person should just eat like they used to eat to get the calories. Again, while I understand what is probably being meant, for a newbie who hasn't learned how to eat some of those calorie dense foods reasonably, this statement is not helpful. (just a personal opinion)1 -
magster4isu wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.
Yes, and if that were problematic for the OP, his phenotype stats would look a bit different. A 6'2", 213lb runner asking how to meet 1750kcal/day consistently doesn't come across as a prototypical overweight person to me.
If having never tracked energy or nutrient composition before, it's quite easy to accumulate fat mass since the development of hyperpalatable foods makes it less difficult to feel satiety.
Becoming self aware of those things can be jarring and send a new dieter into an orthorexic state of questioning the quality of foods... much like we're seeing here. It seems relevant to his post.
However, his original question didn't address his level of fatness or a problem with overeating. So, presumably the OP may not feel 'fat' per se, rather the question of "getting fat in the first place" wasn't relevant to his problem. I'm not sure why others feel it necessary to take offense on another's behalf, but derailing the topic just to defend it is just as unproductive.2 -
magster4isu wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »magster4isu wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.
I honestly think most times this is said it's meant to jolt people out of the (too common) mindset that we have to eliminate all calorie-dense foods or completely transform our eating habits in order to lose weight.
When you see someone post things like "I can't eat that much food" or "I don't understand how anyone can get to [x calories] a day," it can be helpful to remind them that, yeah, they can. All of us (all of us who came here out of a desire to lose weight, anyway) ate more than we needed at one point.
Maybe this particular phrasing is a bit more blunt than some of us would choose, but when someone is insisting that they can't eat more than 1,200 or 1,500 or whatever per day, it can be useful to remind them that -- unless they have a recently developed medical issue -- they can and have.
Yeah. I understand the intent. And maybe you're right and it's just the phrasing that bugs me. But everytime I read it, it seems like the person is implying that the person should just eat like they used to eat to get the calories. Again, while I understand what is probably being meant, for a newbie who hasn't learned how to eat some of those calorie dense foods reasonably, this statement is not helpful. (just a personal opinion)
I don't say it, but as someone who had the issue as explained above (but never would have posted about it), I think it's reasonable when someone is saying things like "1500 seems like SO MUCH food" or "I can't possibly manage that much." I also think it helps to give a check that the issue is not appetite so much as wrong assumptions about how restrictive you must be or -- like the mindset I was getting into -- if I can manage on superlow cals, isn't it wrong or bad or weak to eat more?
I also think that a lot of times (NOT with this OP) the person wants reassurance it's okay to eat more, and other times he or she secretly thinks it's good they are satisfied on low calories, and I think there pointing out that if you really and truly are struggling to eat more than 1000 or whatever there is something wrong is useful. It's not, unlike some think, a sign of strength or good thing (my appetite is so tiny) to think you can't eat maintenance calories, too hard. Realizing you can (how'd you gain) can be useful.
On the other hand, like I said, I avoid "how'd you get fat then" and cringe in some cases when I see it, because often the OP is a young and NOT fat female (occasionally a guy) and I worry it is encouraging an ED in a weird way (yeah, I am fat, gross, must eat less).
Edit: yeah, maybe this whole discussion is derailing as it is not all that applicable to OP, so never mind. I do think he was likely being overly restrictive in terms of what foods are okay for him in his new way of eating in making adjustments and will figure it out.3 -
magster4isu wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
Yes, but expanding a personal experience to a generalized statement isn't productive since one person cannot be responsible or account for the rest of humanity. It's certainly true for "some" people that may have similar experiences.
Example: I don't think jail is a bad experience; therefore, it's okay for all people to commit a felonious crime and get sentenced to doing time.
Doesn't sound very realistic, nor is it productive.
I agree with you. But I also agree that "How'd you get fat in the first place then?" isn't helpful or productive either.
Yes, and if that were problematic for the OP, his phenotype stats would look a bit different. A 6'2", 213lb runner asking how to meet 1750kcal/day consistently doesn't come across as a prototypical overweight person to me.
If having never tracked energy or nutrient composition before, it's quite easy to accumulate fat mass since the development of hyperpalatable foods makes it less difficult to feel satiety.
Becoming self aware of those things can be jarring and send a new dieter into an orthorexic state of questioning the quality of foods... much like we're seeing here. It seems relevant to his post.
However, his original question didn't address his level of fatness or a problem with overeating. So, presumably the OP may not feel 'fat' per se, rather the question of "getting fat in the first place" wasn't relevant to his problem. I'm not sure why others feel it necessary to take offense on another's behalf, but derailing the topic just to defend it is just as unproductive.
In that case: to the OP, if it is just the case that you were starting to put on a 'little bit of fluff' with no food self-control issues, then an overhaul of your original diet likely wasn't necessary. [1] Especially- If you were regularly eating out/drinking beers after your runs (common if you frequently run/cycle with a group), then watching out on the frequency of that alone will likely take care of the surplus (ETA: a typical restaurant burger + fry plate is on the order of 1500 calories). and [2] making sure you are more familiar with the serving sizes on some of the foods people regularly portion out 3+ servings of without realizing it (cereal, rice, pasta).
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janejellyroll wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
I completely understand and agree with the wisdom of temporarily limiting foods that one struggles to moderate (or even doing it long-term if that works for someone). But OP's triggers/potential triggers probably don't include *all* calorie dense foods and tyrindor has shared that they define all calorie dense foods as personally unhealthy. If that works for them, I'm not going to knock it. But it's probably much more restrictive than OP needs to be, especially since OP is looking for ways to meet their calorie needs.
I didn't mean to come across as claiming that OP was in the exact same situation as me. I was trying to explain why this is possible for the people who were asking how he got fat in the first place.
To be honest, I was pissed after reading the "how are you fat then" comments, so my first reply was pretty rude and directed towards them. I edited it to make it a little less rude, but I was late. The comments didn't sit well with me because I was told the same things when I was doing so well with my weight loss years ago. I followed their advice, started lightly snacking on tasty high calorie foods, and within weeks I was always hungry, always eating, and completely fell off my diet. I didn't get my motivation back until I had put on over 50 pounds again.
I don't know OPs exact situation, but he seemed a lot like me. I wouldn't want to see someone else make the same mistake as I did. In my opinion, slightly under eating is still a lot better than vastly overeating. For me, there was no middle ground.
Like I stated earlier, make sure you take a multi-vitamin and lift weights if you under eat. This helps reduce the 2 biggest problems that can be caused by it.lemurcat12 wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
Sure, but he's hijacking the thread in assuming OP's problem is the same.
Sharing a similar experience to explain why someone can go from "eating way too much" to "not enough" is not hijacking the thread... It's addressing the people that claimed OP's situation didn't make sense.
I don't know why some people are still claiming I was assuming OPs problems is the same as mine. I used my situation as a reference, I never claimed his was the same. I've stated multiple times now that I don't know if OP situation is the same but at least my posts give him something to think about. If he feels he will fall off his diet by adding snacking, then he shouldn't do it in my opinion.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I do understand where tyrindor is coming from... a lot of the high-calorie-dense foods he used to eat may be 'trigger foods' for him that he has trouble moderating, and the portion sizes for some of them may be quite small..and adding them back right now on a regular basis can potentially be a slippery slope.
If you haven't, try adding oil/more oil to your veggies, buy higher-fat cuts of meat, stick to full-fat dairy instead of lowfat (where you can...alas, the tasty pre-flavored variety single-serve cups of greek yogurt, for instance, are all non-fat). (if you aren't meeting calories, then you're probably not getting as much fat as you should be for your health). Add in some snacks (mid-afternoon, etc), eat something both before and after working out, go crazy with the coffee creamer, buy some of the lesser-'trigger' foods in single-serve portions or pre-portion (or buy 1 at a time- as in stop in the bodega and grab 1 candy bar at the end of your run),...
I completely understand and agree with the wisdom of temporarily limiting foods that one struggles to moderate (or even doing it long-term if that works for someone). But OP's triggers/potential triggers probably don't include *all* calorie dense foods and tyrindor has shared that they define all calorie dense foods as personally unhealthy. If that works for them, I'm not going to knock it. But it's probably much more restrictive than OP needs to be, especially since OP is looking for ways to meet their calorie needs.
I didn't mean to come across as claiming that OP was in the exact same situation as me. I was trying to explain why this is possible for the people who were asking how he got fat in the first place if he can't eat enough now.
To be honest, I was pissed after reading the "how are you fat then" comments, so my first reply was pretty rude and directed towards them. I edited it to make it a little less rude, but I was late. The comments didn't sit well with me because I was told the same things when I was doing so well with my weight loss years ago. I followed their advice, started lightly snacking on tasty high calorie foods, and within weeks I was always hungry, always eating, and completely fell off my diet. I didn't get my motivation back until I had put on over 50 pounds again.
I don't know OPs exact situation, but he seemed a lot like me. I wouldn't want to see someone else make the same mistake as I did. In my opinion, slightly under eating is still a lot better than vastly overeating. For me, there was no middle ground.
Like I stated earlier, make sure you take a multi-vitamin and lift weights if you must under eat to not fall off your diet. This helps reduce the 2 biggest problems that can be caused by it.
Thanks for providing more context.0 -
Spray oil (especially butter-flavored) is also pretty awesome if you want to up the calorie & fat content of a plate of food another 50-150 calories.1
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nowmartin2001 wrote: »Is anyone else struggling to hit their calorie intake? Mine is set at 1790 for a day to lose weight. I'm a 6ft 2 guy weight about 213lbs. After I've done my cardio for the day (4x a week) I really struggle to hit the daily recommended amount of 1790 calories. Does anyone else find it hard and does anyone have any tips etc to help me hit my goals?
I have the same issue. I am on a major weight loss regime right now and eating a ton of whole-food fruits and vegetables. Unfortunately, these fill me up with few calories- thus I am legitimately struggling to hit my target of 1200 gross calories/day. I have a few go-to foods: lemon water @ 20 cal/16 oz; 30 nuts @ 140 cal; Emergen-C packets @ 35 cal; et cetera
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Getting quite tired of reading "How'd you get fat in the first place if you can't reach a calorie intake" that are regularly in these type of threads. Ever heard of making a life choice to only eat health foods? Eat processed foods for a week, then switch to fresh foods for the next week. Even if you eat the same amount of calories both weeks, the difference in energy is incredible. Low nutrient, high calorie food makes you feel like crap and it's hard to eat 1500+ calories a day of fresh food because it's so filling.
"So just eat small proportions of high calorie foods". That's not easy for everyone, and can definitely throw some people off their diet. If I get a taste of chocolate cake, i'll eat the whole cake. If I buy a bag of almonds, I'll eat the whole bag when watching TV.
OP: Just do what works. If you aren't feeling constantly hungry, you aren't under eating enough to cause problems. If you are concerned about not getting enough of a certain vitamin, take a multi-vitamin.
I eat a very healthy diet and cook most of my meals at home from scratch, whole food ingredients and consume around 2800-3000 calories to maintain weight...the problem is with this idea that "healthy" defaults to low calorie...there are numerous healthy foods that are also calorie dense. Generally speaking, people tend to demonize dietary fat and cut it back significantly...dietary fat is healthy and necessary to proper nutrition...lots of good, healthy fats out there. Adequate calorie intake is just as important to proper nutrition as the actual nutrition.
OP...cook using quality oils...eat nuts...nut butters...avocados...full fat dressings, etc on your salad...have some cheese and/or other full fat dairy....etc, etc, etc...5 -
Sharing a similar experience to explain why someone can go from "eating way too much" to "not enough" is not hijacking the thread... It's addressing the people that claimed OP's situation didn't make sense.
On that, I agree. I did the same thing. But going on about why OP should not eat more and blaming others for you gaining back 50 lbs (for the record, I also don't snack, but people are quite varied on what meal timing works for them) is.I don't know why some people are still claiming I was assuming OPs problems is the same as mine. I used my situation as a reference, I never claimed his was the same. I've stated multiple times now that I don't know if OP situation is the same but at least my posts give him something to think about. If he feels he will fall off his diet by adding snacking, then he shouldn't do it in my opinion.
I don't think snacking was even the topic of the thread, that's one way in which I think you are making it about something else. But in particular I was referring to this:OP: Just do what works, ignore the "always eat at least X amount of calories" stuff. If you aren't feeling constantly hungry, you aren't under eating enough to cause problems.
Not always true. Wouldn't have been for me.The problem is some people can't control proportions when it comes to non-filling high calorie snacks like Almonds. What works for you, may throw another person completely off their diet.
OP said nothing to suggest this is true for him. He changed his diet pretty dramatically and doesn't seem to have tried incorporating moderate amounts of some higher cal foods.Because in my opinion, calorie dense foods are not healthy for me. They are only healthy if ate in extremely small proportions, which I am unable to do because it doesn't fill me and only gives me more "hand to mouth" addiction movement that got me fat in the first place. Snacking is an absolutely no for me.
Someone can claim any food is healthy, and they wouldn't be wrong. Almost everything is healthy in moderation. Doesn't mean that someone wants it in their diet.
It's like telling an alcoholic to take a sip of beer every few days because it's OK as long as they don't get drunk. I am a food addict, if I get a taste of calorie dense stacks, I lose control. Not everyone can have that stuff in their life, and I assume that's why OP is struggling to reach his calorie goal. It's super hard to eat 1500+ calories a day when eating filling low calorie, high protein food.
This, particularly, seems to be assuming OP's issue is like yours, and he said nothing to suggest it is (or that he is a food addict or cannot manage to eat at maintenance or a reasonable deficit -- both of which would indeed be a big problem going forward -- without falling off the alleged wagon).
OP doesn't have much to lose, had some habits that led to lots of excess calories that are not that hard to cut down on, and had just started trying to eat a lower cal diet and seemed surprised at how filling low cal foods can be. For most in this position incorporating back in some higher cal foods (even very nutrient dense ones like nuts, or even occasional takeaways which can be reasonably nutritious as I explained above) is an easy solution, worth trying, and for many (not all) may result in a way of eating easier to follow over time, when the excitement of losing and eating as low cal as possible wears off (if one experiences that).4
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