What about dry needling?
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Thanks, @The_Enginerd
I think it's because dry needling has a "scientific" facade, but analyzing it requires good science.2 -
Had dry needling in traps/rhomboids/cervical. it was horrendous. horrible painful having a 3" needle stuck down hard. So paintful, to the point of throwing up. And, it actually made me worse.
Am back on steroid injections every 3 months.3 -
My PT is recommending I try dry needling for my lower back pain. Wondering if others have tried it and had success or any relief from the pain?
I have had good results from dry needling. I got it for my shoulders to treat rotator cuff issues.
I’ve also had my glutes, quads, and SI joint dry needled, all related to SI and low back pain. I had mixed results. But dry needling is an effective treatment for trigger points, IMO. A manual trigger point therapist can also release many helpful points.1 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
I do find it ironic that given this forum group's reliance and call to scientific research when claims are made, the only person to bring up actual studies instead of their own anecdotal data in here is getting woo'ed...
I honestly didn't think "woo" was a bad thing. I thought it was something like "WOOHOO!" like a cheer.. I have "woo'ed" people thinking this...1 -
wellnesschaser wrote: »But dry needling is an effective treatment for trigger points, IMO. A manual trigger point therapist can also release many helpful points.
The first "works" by the placebo effect. The latter (manual) actually works.1 -
wellnesschaser wrote: »But dry needling is an effective treatment for trigger points, IMO. A manual trigger point therapist can also release many helpful points.
The first "works" by the placebo effect. The latter (manual) actually works.
Any studies you can point me to on a possible placebo effect?0 -
@Grnhouse for me I could feel instant results. they do use acupuncture needles (super thin) I didn't feel the needle hardly at all. what was amazing was that when she hit the trigger points I would feel deep muscle twitches. it was like the muscle would twitch and release knots that sometimes I didn't realize were there until she hit them. EVERY SINGLE time I left I would have IMMEDIATE increase in range of motion and strength. There were a couple of times she did my glutes after a long run, i walked in limping with pain and tightness in my hamstrings and I walked out not limping at all. another time I went in with sever pain and tightness in my neck so bad I couldn't turn my head. I was by no means 100% when I left that time but I was able to go to work and not be debilitated by the pain anymore. I hate that some people say it shouldn't be a first option because I much prefer this method to taking medication every single day that would only help sometimes and often was just pain killers that masked the pain instead of actually treating the cause. Good Luck and please let us know how things work out for you. feel free to message me any time.0
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canadianlbs wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »@canadianlbs it also works well for IT band syndrome...though the treatment is much more unpleasant than just dealing with trigger points.
yeeks . . . i don't have much reason to think he'll start right in with needles the first time we meet, and it might not even be the right thing for me. i'm suspecting a bone pointer or labral tear, from the way that things feel.
but i have just enough reservations about the guy i was referred to, to be interested in anything you can say about separating the quacks/cowboys from the better people in case needling does come up too.
anything your guy did in the early stages that convinced you he was performing due diligence and knew what he was doing? or example, i'd be very interested to hear what protocols he followed to find the trigger point and identify the needle target in the first place. do they show up on some kind of imaging?
@canadianlbs I initially sought massage therapy as trigger points are essentially just really bad knots of muscle. I tried a regular Swedish massage and then a deep tissue that focused on those points...I also performed self massage on those points using a lacrosse ball. I had two massages over the course of two weeks and self massage daily, and nothing released the muscle.
I finally went in to see my Dr. not only for that pain, but I also started feeling numbness and tingling down my left arm and into my fingers and a feeling like spiders or something crawling on my back. He dry needled about 6 or 7 different trigger points...not all of them released, but he got 3 or 4 of them good. With my other symptoms, he sent me in for an MRI which showed a herniated disk.
To find the trigger points, all he had to really do was feel around back there...they're pretty hard knots of muscle...so basically what a massage therapist would. Basically instead of applying pressure to the point as a massage therapist would do, they simply insert a needle into the knot to try to get it to release...so not really a dangerous thing really.
My guy is my GP and I have a very good relationship with him. He is also an athlete (Iron Man and cyclist) and is well versed in sports medicine...given our relationship and his expertise, I had no trust issues. He treats average Joes like myself obviously, but a lot of the local pro and amateur athletes around here have him as their GP and go to him to get other treatments...which is kinda cool because his office is full of all kinds of autographed memorabilia instead of just being a boring white room. I found him several years ago when I was looking for a new GP because my former one retired...my sister is good friends with Holly Holmes and told me that's where she goes and that Geoffrey is really good.
He didn't get full release, but enough to take the edge off. He referred me to physical therapy where I received a variety of treatment including more needling and ultra sound treatment in addition to the exercises.
ETA: I also bought one of these shortly after my PT ended...
I still get trigger points a lot, so I use this when they're just starting to nip them in the bud.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
@canadianlbs I initially sought massage therapy
thanks for all this info . . . as it turned out needles weren't on the table at all with the guy that i saw, but it's still good to have something in the mental card file in case it comes up.0 -
wellnesschaser wrote: »wellnesschaser wrote: »But dry needling is an effective treatment for trigger points, IMO. A manual trigger point therapist can also release many helpful points.
The first "works" by the placebo effect. The latter (manual) actually works.
Any studies you can point me to on a possible placebo effect?
The links I've already posted show all the studies. The results of dry-needling are all self-reported, so the resulting low quality evidence is a result of the placebo effect.1 -
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I had to very quickly go and check that the item like this I put on my secret santa wish list for work doesn't have those unique multi-purpose handles. Luckily it doesn't. That could be embarrassing.2 -
I'm a Trigger Point Therapy specialist and have performed many successful treatments with both this and dry needling. The quadratus lumborum, glutes, hamstrings and quads all come into play with lower back pain.
I suggest reactivating switched off glutes with squats, yoga stretches such as one legged pigeon for glutes and hamstrings and quad stretches as these are antagonists for the hammies.
Dry needling is done in and around trigger points that have been shown to exist, it is not based on Traditional Chinese Medicine.2 -
Thanks @RuNaRoUnDaFiEld. Looked into it. Not ready yet for this type of yoga but will try beginner yoga, the basics.
Most forms of yoga in the West can be classified as Hatha Yoga. Hatha simply refers to the practice of physical yoga postures, meaning your Ashtanga, vinyasa, Iyengar and Power Yoga classes are all Hatha Yoga.
'Beginner' and 'gentle' yoga are hatha yoga as well
I always recommend Rodney Yee's A.M. and P.M. Yoga For Beginners for those new to yoga, or who want a gentle stretch, or for a warm up for something else.
You can probably find this on youtube as well. It's the one where he starts by saying "The morning is a precious time. Just as the sun rises and falls, so do our natural rhythms. The morning is perfect time to open our bodies and center our minds."1 -
In addition to yoga and generally staying active, what has helped my lower back tremendously is a decent chair, specifically, a Herman Miller, which I was lucky enough to inherit from my boss after the second time he fell out if it.2
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Silkysausage wrote: »I'm a Trigger Point Therapy specialist and have performed many successful treatments with both this and dry needling. The quadratus lumborum, glutes, hamstrings and quads all come into play with lower back pain.
I suggest reactivating switched off glutes with squats, yoga stretches such as one legged pigeon for glutes and hamstrings and quad stretches as these are antagonists for the hammies.
Dry needling is done in and around trigger points that have been shown to exist, it is not based on Traditional Chinese Medicine.
^ Agree about the glutes.
I do manual trigger point therapy. Many of my clients get dry needling done by others and report real results.3 -
PT go through a weekend of training for needling. Accupincturists typically have extensive training. Go with a professionally trained acupuncturist and skip doing it at your PT.3
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PT go through a weekend of training for needling. Accupincturists typically have extensive training. Go with a professionally trained acupuncturist and skip doing it at your PT.
I know acupuncturists who do dry needling as an adjunct therapy. There’s some difference between traditional acupuncture and dry needling.0
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