Rapid fat gain after fat loss, how does that work?

the_prez3 wrote: »

I read that after a period of losing a lot of body fat, the body is more susceptible to regaining it quickly. I'm not talking about yo yo dieting or binge eating, this is more of a scientific question. Can anyone shed any light on how this mechanism works and how to prevent it?

I'm approaching the end of a long weight loss process, I took diet breaks along the way and lost the weight slowly but after reaching my body fat goal, I would like to switch to a bulking phase to build some strength and muscle hypertrophy.

I'm assuming the proper way to avoid this is to ease out of a calorie deficit slowly and eat at maintenance for a couple weeks before attempting to gain?

You might be better asking this on the Maintenance or Gaining boards.

If you take yo-yo diets and binge eating out of the conversation, I suspect 3 factors could be at play -

1. People tend to care more when they are unhappy with their weight. As the weight comes off, they become less unhappy, until they reach a point where it doesn't matter as much, they slack on their logging/tracking, and the slippery slope gets more and more slippery.
2. People don't learn as they diet/lose. They don't learn what proper portions/intake look like, they don't learn what balanced eating is/means. Then, when they are no longer trying to lose, they revert to old habits/patterns of eating, and the weight comes back.
3. People lose too much too fast, the body tries to balance itself out, then the person burns out and weight pours back on.

the_prez3 wrote: »

I’m not talking about behaviours, I’m asking about physiological reactions of the body.

Then, at least based on my limited knowledge, point #3 is the only one that applies. The first 2 are pretty standard behaviors = weight scenarios.

This article, Fat Trap, may answer your question. According to the article, losing weight causes metabolic changes in your body as far as hormones, etc, that make it difficult not to regain the weight/fat lost. It's not just that you don't learn to eat healthy or you stop exercising. according to this article, studies have been done that show that even when people kept up their good habits in their maintenance phase, they still regain weight because metabolically, they are different than a person who weighs the same as they now do, and it was the weight loss that caused the metabolic changes. In other words, a person who normally weighs 150 pounds can eat more and not gain weight than a person who has recently lost weight in order to get to 150 pounds. It was interesting reading. They don't know *why* it happens, though. I suspect it's partly evolutionary. When we were hunter/gatherers, we would go through lean times (like winter or droughts) when game and food were scarce. We lost weight. When food was available again, we would eat our fill. Over time we probably became metabolically programmed to regain anything we had lost during the lean times so that we could survive the next famine. (which is where your yo-yo-dieting comes into play, but it sounds like there's more to it than that)

The one thing I noticed was that the article didn't mention strength training. It talked about a couple who had lost a lot of weight, regained some, and had to continue to strictly control their diet and exercise excessively just to maintain a weight that most people would still consider to be overweight. The only exercise it mentioned them doing was aerobic/cardio - it didn't say whether or not they had actually done any strength training to try and put on additional muscle. The woman even claimed to have done the math and figured that she burns fewer calories per minute or hour than would an average person doing things like walking or biking...which makes me wonder if part of her problem is that she hasn't done any strength training so she doesn't have enough muscle to burn those calories.

amyjeaninga wrote: »

This article, Fat Trap, may answer your question...

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I have read on these boards and other research, the very low calorie diet of 500 to 550 calories a day for eight weeks might have been the trigger for those metabolic and hormonal changes, not the weight loss.

the_prez3 wrote: »

I’m not talking about behaviours, I’m asking about physiological reactions of the body. Very similar to the stress induced by a caloric deficit, hormone changes, appetite changes, slowed NEAT, etc.

Yep, I too have read *about* a couple studies (vs reading actual peer reviewed study material) that show TDEE for a person who lost lots of weight is often less than the same sized person with the same activity who has had no significant weight loss. About a year ago there was a thread with a couple links to source material. One was a ppt presented at a scientific conference, but it had detailed study results.

For your case, if you maintain long enough to establish your TDEE at goal with high confidence, then you really don't have to worry about the studies or what happens on average. You just push on using your own numbers. This is where accurate calorie counting is a huge help. Congrats on being close to goal!

If you fall into the previous habits you will gain weight quickly since your daily burn is lower at your reduced weight. There is more to it like metabolic adaptations that can occur but since you lost it slowly, they shouldn't be too severe.

I remember reading an article about a study regarding fat cells and when you gain fat especially in adolescence your body creates more fat cells as the existing ones fill to capacity however when you lose the fat the cells only shrink but do not disappear. So someone who was previously obese will have more dormant fat cells than someone of the same weight, height and bodyfat percentage who has always been lean, meaning the previously obese person will find it much easier to gain fat as the storage already exists.

I couldn't find the article I read but here's a link to another article on the subject with some sources https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2017/02/17/are-fat-cells-forever/

Apologies if my explanation is inaccurate though, it's only my layman understanding and I'll happily be corrected.

Azdak wrote: »

greenlizard72 wrote: »

amyjeaninga wrote: »

This article, Fat Trap, may answer your question...

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I have read on these boards and other research, the very low calorie diet of 500 to 550 calories a day for eight weeks might have been the trigger for those metabolic and hormonal changes, not the weight loss.

The “trigger” is more the amount of weight lost than the way it was lost (although VLCDs have their own issues).

The threshold is not high —like 15-20 pounds IIRC. It’s one of the reasons why people who successfully maintain are those who continue to follow higher-volume exercise routines.

Interesting. I had not heard/read that before, but definitely good to know. Thanks.

I lost 40+ lbs and have maintained that for going on 5 years without much issue...so I don't really know about any rapid fat regain as it hasn't happened to me. Depending on what I'm doing exercise wise, I maintain on about 2700-3000 calories per day...more if I"m actively training for an event.

As bulking goes, I'd spend more than just a couple of weeks in maintenance...it took me about a month at least just to dial that in as I kept losing weight. I'd personally focus on maintaining for awhile before I considered bulking. Also, I wouldn't consider bulking at anything more than about 12% BF at the most. Most people I know who do these cycles usually don't go into a bulk until they're about 10%.

lucerorojo wrote: »

ggirgis44 wrote: »

Scientifically speaking, I couldn't tell you. Speaking personally , I can tell you my experience -- yes, it's easy to gain weight. For me, maintenance is almost the same as losing the weight. This also depends on how much weight you've lost, as fat cells don't disappear, they simply shrink. If you've lost a lot of weight, then it's easier to regain.

I've lost 140 pounds, from 283 to 143. I lost the weight over a 10 year period, no crash dieting or anything crazy, eating 1200-1800 calories and going to the gym. As I lost more weight, it became increasingly difficult to shed the pounds, but I was vigilant and disciplined to see the extra fat gone, having spent years being overweight. To shed the last 25 pounds, I had to cut calories to 1000-1200 and walk an hour a day.
Now, taking a few days during the holidays to eat some extra candies or even eating a slice of birthday cake two days in a row shows a 5-15 pound difference on the scale. During the month of December, I went from 145 to 160 within one month. Logically speaking, that should be an increase of 52,500 calories. However, I can honestly and assuredly say that my calories only approached 2,000 two separate times. My average calorie intake for December is ~1600 calories (up from my regular 1200).
A few pounds is water weight, for sure, as increased carbs fill up glycogen levels -- but even going back to my regular routine for 2 weeks only gave me a loss of 4-5 pounds (and I look visibly fatter).
I'm not really sure how to expound -- it's difficult. I now realize I must maintain my constant vigilance. This is why they say 95% of people who lose weight regain it.
I'm now aiming back for the 140s and the future is bright -- already looking leaner in the mirror! I just have to be hungry pretty much everyday... and that's the truth! Willing to pay that price, though :-)

It is disconcerting that you could gain so much weight just from 2 pieces a cake or some extra candy during the holidays. Are you still logging and weighing? Do you do any strength training? Supposedly having more muscle can help burn more calories.

Yes, sir. I bought a food scale two years ago, nearing my lowest weight (when I went from 168-143) to make sure I was doing everything in my power. I've logged for over 1200 days in a row (MFP shows 800 due to a one day discrepancy, which I really logged the day after :-]). I log every BLT (bite, lick, taste). That's how I've lost 140 pounds. It was not easy!
I strength train 3x a week, once at the gym and twice at home. I believe I could up my calories if I took strength training more seriously -- I do strength training to maintain my LBM, but not really add (hard/impossible to do in a deficit).