How Fat Loss Works
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@richb178 Would love to know how the scale was backwards.
Because with a scale, when you subtract weight you cause that side to go up. So if he was lowering calories in, it should cause that side of the scale to rise, or in other words, the calories out would be relatively heavier so should cause that side of the scale to go down. He should have used a bar graph with a base line for when CI and CO are balanced, and then have CI go negative and CO go positive.
PS. For the haters, I don't need a PhD to know that, or that the grass is green, and I never said I had one and never knew I had to have one. And I don't believe I contradicted anything he said. First, you are in balance and CI = CO. Then you reduce you CI and your CO does not equal CI but is higher, so you lose weight. Eventually your CO reduces to equal your CI again. So now what? He's only posted part 1 so I can't comment on the rest of his explanation of how fat loss works.13 -
He drew his scale backwards.
Funny, he appeared to be promoting CICO at first, but he eventually got there in the end and debunked it. Sure, short term, lowering CI will allow weight loss, but you can't just keep lowering it every time your BMR NEAT EA and TEF go down to balance it. And the 20% difference between protein and carbs on TEF only accounts for a maximum of 2% of CO, and actually much less because nobody eats only protein or carbs, so it's probably less than 1% of CO.
Now, having your BMR go down has a huge effect on CO, so you have to eat in a way that allows you to reduce your calories w/o lowering your BMR. This is why simply saying CICO is not true.
I think that video was confusing to most people and mostly worthless. Do yourself a favor and look into eating foods that lower insulin and into intermittent fasting.
Your BMR is directly influenced by how much you weigh. You can't keep BMR the same as you continue losing weight.
IF or "lowering insulin" doesn't change that fact.13 -
He drew his scale backwards.
Funny, he appeared to be promoting CICO at first, but he eventually got there in the end and debunked it. Sure, short term, lowering CI will allow weight loss, but you can't just keep lowering it every time your BMR NEAT EA and TEF go down to balance it. And the 20% difference between protein and carbs on TEF only accounts for a maximum of 2% of CO, and actually much less because nobody eats only protein or carbs, so it's probably less than 1% of CO.
Now, having your BMR go down has a huge effect on CO, so you have to eat in a way that allows you to reduce your calories w/o lowering your BMR. This is why simply saying CICO is not true.
I think that video was confusing to most people and mostly worthless. Do yourself a favor and look into eating foods that lower insulin and into intermittent fasting.
He did not debunk CICO. In fact, he straight up defended it against claims like yours.
I think the testimonials above from newbies saying that the video helped them shows that it isn’t confusing.
Just because it disagrees with your misguided viewpoints doesn’t mean it’s confusing.
Insulin isn’t the devil and does not cause weight gain. Nor does it prevent weight loss.
Intermittent fasting can be a useful tool for creating a calorie deficit if that suits your eating style but the benefits end there. The extravagant claims being made by the likes of Gary Taubes are both unfounded and overblown.17 -
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@richb178 Would love to know how the scale was backwards.
Because with a scale, when you subtract weight you cause that side to go up. So if he was lowering calories in, it should cause that side of the scale to rise, or in other words, the calories out would be relatively heavier so should cause that side of the scale to go down. He should have used a bar graph with a base line for when CI and CO are balanced, and then have CI go negative and CO go positive.
PS. For the haters, I don't need a PhD to know that, or that the grass is green, and I never said I had one and never knew I had to have one. And I don't believe I contradicted anything he said. First, you are in balance and CI = CO. Then you reduce you CI and your CO does not equal CI but is higher, so you lose weight. Eventually your CO reduces to equal your CI again. So now what? He's only posted part 1 so I can't comment on the rest of his explanation of how fat loss works.
Truly love how you know more than experts in the field simply by researching on Dr Google. Why would anyone bother with uni degrees anymore when Google gives a far superior education? Seriously, you are full of bull with no grasp on basic science.8 -
Let’s try not to get this thread closed. It has too much potential to help new members.14
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BMR is "influenced" by weight, but there are many other factors. I don't doubt any of these:stevencloser wrote: »Your BMR is directly influenced by how much you weigh. You can't keep BMR the same as you continue losing weight.
IF or "lowering insulin" doesn't change that fact.
http://www.studyandexam.com/factors-of-bmr.html
I believe the problem is that if you lower your CI by X amount that should make you lose 50 lbs, but your BMR et al eventually drop by X amount to balance CI, but you've only lost 25 lbs, then you have a problem. I read about these stalls constantly on this site, as well as weight rebounds. I've experienced neither in 6 months of keto and IF.
Btw, I've since watched some of this body builder's videos and I doubt he would disagree with saying that if you want to reduce body fat should reduce refined carbohydrates and skipping a few meals probably wouldn't hurt either. He seems to promote high protein, which is basically what I'm eating, with a lot of fat coming from my body stores.
I don't have any more time for all your silliness.
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Also, I've seen studies that BMR increases during fasting, and I don't doubt that either. You can look them up yourselves if you'd like.11
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BMR is "influenced" by weight, but there are many other factors. I don't doubt any of these:stevencloser wrote: »Your BMR is directly influenced by how much you weigh. You can't keep BMR the same as you continue losing weight.
IF or "lowering insulin" doesn't change that fact.
http://www.studyandexam.com/factors-of-bmr.html
I believe the problem is that if you lower your CI by X amount that should make you lose 50 lbs, but your BMR et al eventually drop by X amount to balance CI, but you've only lost 25 lbs, then you have a problem. I read about these stalls constantly on this site, as well as weight rebounds. I've experienced neither in 6 months of keto and IF.
Btw, I've since watched some of this body builder's videos and I doubt he would disagree with saying that if you want to reduce body fat should reduce refined carbohydrates and skipping a few meals probably wouldn't hurt either. He seems to promote high protein, which is basically what I'm eating, with a lot of fat coming from my body stores.
I don't have any more time for all your silliness.
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BMR is "influenced" by weight, but there are many other factors. I don't doubt any of these:stevencloser wrote: »Your BMR is directly influenced by how much you weigh. You can't keep BMR the same as you continue losing weight.
IF or "lowering insulin" doesn't change that fact.
http://www.studyandexam.com/factors-of-bmr.html
I believe the problem is that if you lower your CI by X amount that should make you lose 50 lbs, but your BMR et al eventually drop by X amount to balance CI, but you've only lost 25 lbs, then you have a problem. I read about these stalls constantly on this site, as well as weight rebounds. I've experienced neither in 6 months of keto and IF.
Btw, I've since watched some of this body builder's videos and I doubt he would disagree with saying that if you want to reduce body fat should reduce refined carbohydrates and skipping a few meals probably wouldn't hurt either. He seems to promote high protein, which is basically what I'm eating, with a lot of fat coming from my body stores.
I don't have any more time for all your silliness.
IIRC, even in the Minnesota Semi-Starvation Study, which, as the name implies, was at a pretty full on calorie deficit, the participants never got to a point where actual fat loss had stopped, ie their BMR had dropped so much that it equalled calories in. Yeah, your BMR drops (adaptive thermogenesis), but not nearly so much as some people like to make out.
Adaptive thermogenesis is a thing. You can take steps to mitigate adaptive thermogenesis during weight loss. Steps that involve neither keto nor IF.11 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »
BMR is "influenced" by weight, but there are many other factors. I don't doubt any of these:stevencloser wrote: »Your BMR is directly influenced by how much you weigh. You can't keep BMR the same as you continue losing weight.
IF or "lowering insulin" doesn't change that fact.
http://www.studyandexam.com/factors-of-bmr.html
I believe the problem is that if you lower your CI by X amount that should make you lose 50 lbs, but your BMR et al eventually drop by X amount to balance CI, but you've only lost 25 lbs, then you have a problem. I read about these stalls constantly on this site, as well as weight rebounds. I've experienced neither in 6 months of keto and IF.
Btw, I've since watched some of this body builder's videos and I doubt he would disagree with saying that if you want to reduce body fat should reduce refined carbohydrates and skipping a few meals probably wouldn't hurt either. He seems to promote high protein, which is basically what I'm eating, with a lot of fat coming from my body stores.
I don't have any more time for all your silliness.
IIRC, even in the Minnesota Semi-Starvation Study, which, as the name implies, was at a pretty full on calorie deficit, the participants never got to a point where actual fat loss had stopped, ie their BMR had dropped so much that it equalled calories in. Yeah, your BMR drops (adaptive thermogenesis), but not nearly so much as some people like to make out.
Adaptive thermogenesis is a thing. You can take steps to mitigate adaptive thermogenesis during weight loss. Steps that involve neither keto nor IF.
I've never tried to lower insulin. Quite the opposite. Exercise, carbs and protein all trigger insulin and are anabolic so help in muscle building. I recently had my BMR tested. I've lost 25 lbs, gained a few lbs of muscle and my BRM has gone up. All while eating all the carbs I can fit in my macro plan. How would that be explained richb178?
Carlos's Yoda video could not be more appropriate.8 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Let’s try not to get this thread closed. It has too much potential to help new members.
I feel like thats exactly what he/she is trying to do.0 -
"this bodybuilder's" LOL
BMR is not the same as NEAT, the two are being conflated.
Take it to the debate section, let's not turn this into a shitshow because unlike "debunking CICO" this is actually helpful for a lot of people buying into the latest diet du jour, like keto.10 -
To watch later - bumped!0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »
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Layne Norton is kind of a d-bag but he knows his stuff. I agree with all of his videos and they're all very educational. I also like how he goes into the psychology of the fitness/nutrition industry. Very smart and knowledgeable man.1
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Beat me to it!
He gets pretty sciency in episode 2.1
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