diet break/calorie suggestions
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So... yes, everything Ann said is true.
I still think 7 weeks might be a bit short, as it would only cover one monthly cycle not 2, and i would think that any associated water retention plus eating out water retention could potentially complicate weight measurement.
There is zero reason to not be starting at at least 2000 calories and every reason to be pushing for more than that until you see a steady weight trend level increase for more than a week! @heybales might have some input on how to best determine top maintenance calories?
I am sure happy scale, Libra and weightgrapher would all allow you to input older weigh ins to establish your weight trendline starting with older data.
And since fitbit.com also lets you enter arbitrary past weigh-in days and you can force Trendweight.com to re-download your complete scale weight history from Fitbit, yes I would go back and observe my trending weight changes and if confident in my loging base my decisions off of that.
I basically agree with you, PAV, and @mmapags, that 7 weeks is short and 2000 might be a reasonable start, and should've said so.
I'm afraid I was (over-?)reacting to the tone of some of the other replies. Skepticism is reasonable, but some others' cries of "impossible" and "use the MFP maintenance estimate" seem unreasonable in context, to me.
If OP keeps seeing losses of the magnitude she reports, I think she should eat more while losing: I cut too low based on MFP's estimate briefly when I got here, and felt good while doing it . . . until I didn't. It took several more weeks to recover. Losing too fast is a Bad Thing, and one's own/others' quasi-religious belief in the "calculators" is a risk factor.
Apologies for the rant(s).6 -
So... yes, everything Ann said is true.
I still think 7 weeks might be a bit short, as it would only cover one monthly cycle not 2, and i would think that any associated water retention plus eating out water retention could potentially complicate weight measurement.
There is zero reason to not be starting at at least 2000 calories and every reason to be pushing for more than that until you see a steady weight trend level increase for more than a week! @heybales might have some input on how to best determine top maintenance calories?
I am sure happy scale, Libra and weightgrapher would all allow you to input older weigh ins to establish your weight trendline starting with older data.
And since fitbit.com also lets you enter arbitrary past weigh-in days and you can force Trendweight.com to re-download your complete scale weight history from Fitbit, yes I would go back and observe my trending weight changes and if confident in my loging base my decisions off of that.
I basically agree with you, PAV, and @mmapags, that 7 weeks is short and 2000 might be a reasonable start, and should've said so.
I'm afraid I was (over-?)reacting to the tone of some of the other replies. Skepticism is reasonable, but some others' cries of "impossible" and "use the MFP maintenance estimate" seem unreasonable in context, to me.
If OP keeps seeing losses of the magnitude she reports, I think she should eat more while losing: I cut too low based on MFP's estimate briefly when I got here, and felt good while doing it . . . until I didn't. It took several more weeks to recover. Losing too fast is a Bad Thing, and one's own/others' quasi-religious belief in the "calculators" is a risk factor.
Apologies for the rant(s).
Your rants on this subject are always welcome @AnnPT77!! It's good for the community to be reminded not to let things be repeated to the point that they become MFP 'lore' without consideration of other possibilities
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This formula may help: [total calories consumed+(total lbs lostx3500)]/days=TDEE
I'm an MFP outlier myself, so it is helpful to figure out what my TDEE really is since MFP/Garmin try to give me a tiny amount of food which just causes me to lose even more rapidly. Turns out I need to set MFP to lose a full half pound less to get the desired results.2 -
What does MFP say your maintenance calories should be? I put your stats in a TDEE calculator and it said your maintenance calories are 1520. I’m not sure how you got to add 1500 back. You’d be regaining weight eating that much.
Presumably OP came up with adding 1500 back to get to maintenance because OP has been averaging a three pound loss a week (which presumably means an average deficit of 1500 kcals a day). Personal data and results are better than MFP or any other calculator.1 -
What does MFP say your maintenance calories should be? I put your stats in a TDEE calculator and it said your maintenance calories are 1520. I’m not sure how you got to add 1500 back. You’d be regaining weight eating that much.
If I'm losing 3 lbs/week eating 1200 calories, it would seem to me I'm at a 1500 deficit and for maintenance I would add that back, no?
@RunRutheeRun I did change MFP to maintenance and it made my new goal 1570 but that doesn't seem high enough given that I've been losing weight fast eating just 370 calories less than that.
@mmapags Thanks for running my stats through another calculator. They all seem to give me different info. I'll try 2000 and see what happens. I have a food scale but I do eat out a lot and trust the restaurant's nutritional info which I understand can be off... still I can't imagine being off almost twice what I eat but I suppose that is a possibility. I'm a big fidget-er so maybe I burn a lot more than I realize? Also I've been nearly the same weight for 20 years until I had to start taking meds for depression and gained 60lbs in about 18 months. I know its contrary to the law of thermodynamics but ever heard of anyone losing faster because they gained so fast through meds? Like maybe the 60lbs wasn't all fat?
Thanks for all the advice!
You're absolutely right. Three pounds a week means you've been eating 1500 kcals per day less than maintenance, so you should be able to add 1500 kcals to your average daily consumption to get to maintenance. Your data and results are a better indicator than MFP or any other calculator.
And given that your data excludes an initial period of loss when you weren't logging, and the data covers 7 weeks, I think you can feel fairly confident in it. You should be prepared for an initial weight jump when you go back to maintenance, as your body tops off glycogen stores, which require water.1 -
What happens to total weight and avg weekly weight lost if you drop the first 2-3 weeks of stats (first week easily extra water weight), in order to give yourself a solid 4 weeks hopefully not related to expected water weight fluctuations?
And then for those weigh-ins marking the 4 weeks - were they valid to minimize known water weight changes?
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
If end of 7 wks was invalid, move the 4 wk window back.
Then do your math which is decent idea. Because agree with above, current math sounds rather high for decently sedentary - almost as much as me outside of exercise.
Great idea above to get trend-weight to suck down extra data days.5 -
Excuse me while I fan girl, but huge thanks to all and especially the long-timers for chiming in. I mean, @Nony_Mouse your post is the whole reason I even know about diet breaks! You guys are helping so many peps become healthier, so props. I’ll update when I reach the end of my diet break with more data.3
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How do you decide when to take a diet break, I have been logging for bit more than 12 weeks, average 2 lbs per week. I am still 40 lbs away to my goal weight. Should I only do diet break it if I plateaued or struggling? I am scared if i eat more it would break my good streak with following the diet.0
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Wow! You are lucky to have 2700 calories
I am 5 ft tall. I have lost 17.6 pounds in last 11 weeks. I weigh 144 (same as yours). What is your ideal weight?0 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »How do you decide when to take a diet break, I have been logging for bit more than 12 weeks, average 2 lbs per week. I am still 40 lbs away to my goal weight. Should I only do diet break it if I plateaued or struggling? I am scared if i eat more it would break my good streak with following the diet.
@skinnyjingbb have a read of this thread for more info on diet breaks: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks#latest
My personal opinion is that you should do them before you are struggling, sort of a pre-emptive strike. Why get to the point of slowed weight loss, struggling with adherence, and dropping energy levels if you don't have to, right? You can probably go longer before doing one, but it's really up to you. It's certainly not going to do you any harm.
The idea of the diet break is that you essentially carry on as you currently are in a deficit, just with more calories. So you can add some treats if you want to, or you can just eat more of what you usually do. Try to think of how you want life to be at maintenance, how do you envisage yourself eating (pro tip: it's not how you used to eat, or at least not the amount
). Diet breaks are also maintenance practice. Other than those who did breaks over Christmas, I think most of us have gone for a mix of larger portions sizes, adding some snacks, some treats, but mostly keeping baseline the same. If you're losing 2lb per week then you need to be adding an additional 1000 cals a day to maintain. That's going to be a lot easier if at least some stuff is higher cal.
It is also perfectly okay if you still have foods that you're not feeling ready to reincorporate yet. Obviously that is the ultimate aim, but it takes time to learn those moderation skills. There's still some stuff I just won't have in the house (roasted nuts, I am looking at you!).2 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »How do you decide when to take a diet break, I have been logging for bit more than 12 weeks, average 2 lbs per week. I am still 40 lbs away to my goal weight. Should I only do diet break it if I plateaued or struggling? I am scared if i eat more it would break my good streak with following the diet.
This is a valid concern and it doesn't really have an answer.
What is theoretically optimal to achieve a certain result does not translate into being optimal to each individual given their own make-up.
If I knew what I know now I would have taken more re-feeds and diet breaks instead of relying on accidental re-feeds and diet breaks as I did during my period of faster loss. But if I had taken additional diet breaks (or diet breaks under different circumstances as mine were associated with vacations and holidays) I may never have gotten to the point where I am now and that too is a valid concern.
Having acknowledged that, eventually you WILL have to start toying with maintenance. And if what you're doing is so difficult for you that you feel you have to exert in-ordinate pressure on yourself to keep at it (so much so that it is a concern whether you would be willing to return to it)... that, by itself, says something.
Sorry to be conflicted in my answer. I suspect that diet-breaks for people who are able to adhere and re-restrict on schedule are optimal as compared to a continuous deficit. I suspect that a percentage of people will find it difficult to re-establish a deficit.
Where the line is between these percentages, I do not know.
I do know that with a lot of weight to lose there are numerous options. And that diet breaks are LESS NECESSARY than when you have less fat available to lose.
You are going at 2lbs a week. I would suggest that as soon as your fat stores are no longer sufficient to classify you as obese you may want to drop to a restriction that does not exceed 20% of your TDEE. And even now I would consider dropping to 1.5lbs if 2lbs is more than 25% of TDEE.
The occasional re-feed as opposed to full diet break may also be sufficient in your case. Have a look at the diet break thread...0 -
I felt good now, I am doing relative low carb(15%), so I don't get any energy swings. I have cravings but very manageable with variety of small snacks. I do work into my plan to have maximum once a week for eat out or just cravings(so eating 1500-1600 cal instead of the normal 1200 cal). I don't feel hungry and my appetite is reduced. What I am worried about diet break is I would gain back my strong craving and appetite. I think I'll wait until I lose 10 more lbs before considering diet break.0
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »I felt good now, I am doing relative low carb(15%), so I don't get any energy swings. I have cravings but very manageable with variety of small snacks. I do work into my plan to have maximum once a week for eat out or just cravings(so eating 1500-1600 cal instead of the normal 1200 cal). I don't feel hungry and my appetite is reduced. What I am worried about diet break is I would gain back my strong craving and appetite. I think I'll wait until I lose 10 more lbs before considering diet break.
@CynthiasChoice had similar worries. Haven't seen her around for awhile (hence tagging her), but hopefully she will pop in with her experiences going from low carb to needing to hit 100-150g per day for diet break. Or you could do a search for her posts in the refeeds thread (easier than wading through the however many pages there are of that thing now!).
Perfectly fine to wait another 10lb though if you're feeling good, though as @PAV8888 said, you may want to consider reducing your deficit a bit at this point.1 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I felt good now, I am doing relative low carb(15%), so I don't get any energy swings. I have cravings but very manageable with variety of small snacks. I do work into my plan to have maximum once a week for eat out or just cravings(so eating 1500-1600 cal instead of the normal 1200 cal). I don't feel hungry and my appetite is reduced. What I am worried about diet break is I would gain back my strong craving and appetite. I think I'll wait until I lose 10 more lbs before considering diet break.
One thing to consider is that cravings/appetite etc are also potentially manifestations of adaptations and related to the state of your various hormones. There may be a balance between postponing the day of reckoning and the size and duration of the reckoning. Your situation will be further complicated by starting from low carb as there will be both water weight and new types of food getting introduced, both at the same time.
I am not sure that a deficit day of 1500-1600 Cal is what I would consider sufficient during a one or two day re-feed (fully alerting that re-feeds will, of course, slow down the RATE of loss in the short term) and as re-feeds primarily would have to bring in carbs to mitigate hormonal changes, and be a low fat high carb day I am not sure how they would work with low carb... I would refer you to the people in the re-feed thread who have looked more specifically into how they work.
While I do suspect that diet breaks and re-feeds on schedule would be optimal in terms of hormones, my personal opinion based on what you've said so far is that yes, there are dangers to introducing them based on where you're at.
So, without any great scientific backing, I would just continue in the groove I am in. But I would seriously consider reducing my deficit to between 25% and 20% while obese and between 20% and 15% when overweight. Both because these %s enhance compliance as compared to higher deficits and because they are more lean mass sparing. I would also look into two day re-feeds every two to three weeks, subject to the concerns I articulated above.
Because of the way you have decided to lose your weight (adopting a new way of eating which you may, or may not, be planning to continue with long term), I think that you may have some compliance issues when, inevitably, you end up making major changes and as such I understand your hesitation.0 -
Wow! You are lucky to have 2700 calories
I am 5 ft tall. I have lost 17.6 pounds in last 11 weeks. I weigh 144 (same as yours). What is your ideal weight?
@ayshakool I’ve been eating about 2000 for 5 days and staying the same weight so far. So I don’t think I get the full 2700 unfortunately. I want to fit in my pre-divorce clothes from when I was 108 lbs and maybe lose a couple more lbs after I get there. Are you not sure about your goal weight?
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Hmm, if you're seeking limit of maintenance you add calories till you have a sustained trending weight increase over a week or more. Then you back off!
So if no increase... push more 0 -
skinnyjingbb wrote: »I felt good now, I am doing relative low carb(15%), so I don't get any energy swings. I have cravings but very manageable with variety of small snacks. I do work into my plan to have maximum once a week for eat out or just cravings(so eating 1500-1600 cal instead of the normal 1200 cal). I don't feel hungry and my appetite is reduced. What I am worried about diet break is I would gain back my strong craving and appetite. I think I'll wait until I lose 10 more lbs before considering diet break.
One thing to consider is that cravings/appetite etc are also potentially manifestations of adaptations and related to the state of your various hormones. There may be a balance between postponing the day of reckoning and the size and duration of the reckoning. Your situation will be further complicated by starting from low carb as there will be both water weight and new types of food getting introduced, both at the same time.
I am not sure that a deficit day of 1500-1600 Cal is what I would consider sufficient during a one or two day re-feed (fully alerting that re-feeds will, of course, slow down the RATE of loss in the short term) and as re-feeds primarily would have to bring in carbs to mitigate hormonal changes, and be a low fat high carb day I am not sure how they would work with low carb... I would refer you to the people in the re-feed thread who have looked more specifically into how they work.
While I do suspect that diet breaks and re-feeds on schedule would be optimal in terms of hormones, my personal opinion based on what you've said so far is that yes, there are dangers to introducing them based on where you're at.
So, without any great scientific backing, I would just continue in the groove I am in. But I would seriously consider reducing my deficit to between 25% and 20% while obese and between 20% and 15% when overweight. Both because these %s enhance compliance as compared to higher deficits and because they are more lean mass sparing. I would also look into two day re-feeds every two to three weeks, subject to the concerns I articulated above.
Because of the way you have decided to lose your weight (adopting a new way of eating which you may, or may not, be planning to continue with long term), I think that you may have some compliance issues when, inevitably, you end up making major changes and as such I understand your hesitation.
Thank you for the good advise. I just lost enough to be at the higher end of over-weight, I'll increase daily intake to 1400 and will read more about the 2 day refeeding you talked about. The short term refeeding will probably work better for me mentally.0 -
Be aware (not so much OP as others who've posted questions) that some of us never take a diet break, and do fine. Periodic, planned diet breaks are an excellent idea for many, especially those who feel burned out, stall or plateau, etc.
But they are an option, not a non-negotiable requirement. Read the very good thread about them that's linked above, and think seriously about your best plan.
A break can't hurt you - it's just a short delay in reaching ultimate goal weight, and good practice for eventual long term maintenance. A break may help you hormonally and psychologically - it helps lots of people, some dramatically.
But it's not "essential magic" that every single person must incorporate in order to succeed. I lost 50+ pounds in just less than a year, with the occasional over goal (even over maintenance) day here and there for special occasions, tapered my loss rate intentionally as I went, moderate carbs all the way, never plateaued or stalled, didn't feel stressed, and never took a full diet break. Going into year 3 of maintenance, I don't think that course was wrong for me. Different people, different courses.2 -
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