Lyle McDonald: Legit or FOS?
tmoneyag99
Posts: 480 Member
I keep seeing posts about Lyle all through out MFP and Bodybuilding.com. BUT, I don't know how credible he is. I'm sure he is a sharp dude, but so was Andrew Wakefield. So sharp he knowingly provided false data related to vaccinations so that he could sell HIS vaccinations and now we have a whole movement of people who won't inoculate their children against dangerous diseases.
Point being, I see all of Lyle's studies and posts, but I sometimes have difficulty finding other data to support his findings. Such as the idea that fat cells fill up with water during weight loss.
Excuse me while I, albeit temporarily, exercise my skepticism.
Point being, I see all of Lyle's studies and posts, but I sometimes have difficulty finding other data to support his findings. Such as the idea that fat cells fill up with water during weight loss.
Excuse me while I, albeit temporarily, exercise my skepticism.
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Replies
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Lyle is a quirky guy and doesn't always play well with others, but his writings and opinions are respected by other top names in the field. Ultimately, you have to evaluate his writings/opinions the same as anyone else's.16
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Obviously, his theorys did not work on himself.17
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tmoneyag99 wrote: »I keep seeing posts about Lyle all through out MFP and Bodybuilding.com. BUT, I don't know how credible he is. I'm sure he is a sharp dude, but so was Andrew Wakefield. So sharp he knowingly provided false data related to vaccinations so that he could sell HIS vaccinations and now we have a whole movement of people who won't inoculate their children against dangerous diseases.
Point being, I see all of Lyle's studies and posts, but I sometimes have difficulty finding other data to support his findings. Such as the idea that fat cells fill up with water during weight loss.
Excuse me while I, albeit temporarily, exercise my skepticism.
Your point is a misleading POV on what Lyle actually says about the "squishy fat theory".
If you have to use a misrepresentation of what he said to build a strawman to argue against it you have a very weak case!
Personally I find him a good and thought provoking read.17 -
Having never heard of the guy I did a quick flick through his stuff.
It’s an interesting theory he’s got there (squishy fat), while it’s not a dieting theory it is certainly one that would help in explaining why weight loss fluctuates between one week and the next while everything else remains constant. He also says himself there’s not a great deal of scientific evidence to support his claims.0 -
I heard of Lyle McDonald here on MFP and find most of the things he writes as sensible. He does put out theories for things he has witnessed working with body recomposition clients - but when he doesn’t have much in the way of scientific studies to back up his theories, he seems so be quite up front about it.
Squishy Fat was one I had not stumbled over til this thread. I find it fascinating because he could be describing my weight loss experience. Months of what appeared to be practically no progress then woosh in October I went down two sizes and looked like a different person week to week. My CICO didn’t change (tho I did change to Intermittent fasting) but everything else did.
Now I’m fascinated by the tiny marble fat he briefly mentioned - because that describes my arms right now!
He is well worth reading, imo.6 -
Lyle is a quirky guy and doesn't always play well with others, but his writings and opinions are respected by other top names in the field. Ultimately, you have to evaluate his writings/opinions the same as anyone else's.
Yes...
I also like that he's pretty up front about things when he proposes an idea/opinion that might not have a whole lot of scientific backing.7 -
Legit.
His writings/opinions are in alignment with a lot of other solid, evidence-based sources (Alan Aragon, Eric Helms, James Krieger, Brad Schoenfeld, etc.) and he's pretty up front about the times he offers an opinion without research-based facts to back it up.
He does write/sell books, but his website is full of good information that is all free - no subscription, no e-mail required, no ads, no strings attached. It's probably the best, most prolific source of evidence-based information about diet and training on the internet. He doesn't sell, or shill for, any supplements, fitness gadgets, etc.
Lyle's personality may not be for everybody - he's very blunt and can be abrasive - but that doesn't diminish the quality of the information he provides.18 -
His lifting programs work. Science schmience aside, this is a fact.3
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Having never heard of the guy I did a quick flick through his stuff.
It’s an interesting theory he’s got there (squishy fat), while it’s not a dieting theory it is certainly one that would help in explaining why weight loss fluctuates between one week and the next while everything else remains constant. He also says himself there’s not a great deal of scientific evidence to support his claims.
There is, however, evidence that fat changes density and it's not always 3500 calories, but often it's higher due to lower water content than the model used to calculate that number.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Having never heard of the guy I did a quick flick through his stuff.
It’s an interesting theory he’s got there (squishy fat), while it’s not a dieting theory it is certainly one that would help in explaining why weight loss fluctuates between one week and the next while everything else remains constant. He also says himself there’s not a great deal of scientific evidence to support his claims.
There is, however, evidence that fat changes density and it's not always 3500 calories, but often it's higher due to lower water content than the model used to calculate that number.
Which he also wrote about: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/3500-calorie-rule.html/1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »Having never heard of the guy I did a quick flick through his stuff.
It’s an interesting theory he’s got there (squishy fat), while it’s not a dieting theory it is certainly one that would help in explaining why weight loss fluctuates between one week and the next while everything else remains constant. He also says himself there’s not a great deal of scientific evidence to support his claims.
There is, however, evidence that fat changes density and it's not always 3500 calories, but often it's higher due to lower water content than the model used to calculate that number.
Which he also wrote about: https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/3500-calorie-rule.html/
Yeah, one of the first places I came across that.0 -
Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
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grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Never saw that, but yes, we start off with undifferentiated genitalia that develops to female unless DHT is present at a particular time. I'm trying to recall my embryology right now lol.
Although, I imagine he was speaking in terms of observable difference to a lay audience. I'm not sure though but his site is not an academic treatise.4 -
grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Yet he's in the final process of publishing a women's book that's nearly 400 pages long and contains almost 1,000 references to peer-reviewed research. The most comprehensive, evidence-based book about women's training and nutrition that's ever been written. He's also currently coaching a female powerlifter who's doing quite well in her competitions. That is, if you'd consider holding the current world records for each lift in her age/weight class as "quite well".
To say that Lyle knows nothing about females is absolutely laughable. To say that he sometimes has a dry, sarcastic and somewhat tawdry sense of humor which shows through in his writings would be entirely accurate.17 -
grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Don't mistake tactfulness for knowledge. His style and voice aren't for everyone, but his knowledge is as respected as anyone's in the industry.4 -
grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Don't mistake tactfulness for knowledge. His style and voice aren't for everyone, but his knowledge is as respected as anyone's in the industry.
Nobody would ever accuse Lyle of being tactful lol, but a couple years ago he did come out with a public apology and indicated he had some disorder that made him overreact and become very belligerent at the slightest provocation. I think it might have been ADHD and/or OCD or something similar, and he said he was seeking treatment for this and trying to moderate his responses to others.3 -
I've purchased 2 of Lyle's books, and the guy is anything but FOS. If he has a theory, he isn't afraid to state it is strictly that, and more studies/evidence is needed to verify it. It's easy for people to state fact while citing a few studies to back up their claims, but in his Ketogenic diet book there are thousands of sources cited to back up the info he presents. His personality may not be for everyone, but I tend to enjoy his sarcasm and snark.grinning_chick wrote: »
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Sometimes the topics he writes about can easily be over the heads of the people seeking out whatever info he is presenting, and he tends to simplify it as much as possible. In this case, he may have omitted what you brought up for that purpose, or due to irrelevancy (I haven't read it so I don't know the context, but I've seen him do this before). But yeah, since he made one statement you don't agree with it's ok to write him off as a lazy. know-nothing. Whatevs.6 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Don't mistake tactfulness for knowledge. His style and voice aren't for everyone, but his knowledge is as respected as anyone's in the industry.
Nobody would ever accuse Lyle of being tactful lol, but a couple years ago he did come out with a public apology and indicated he had some disorder that made him overreact and become very belligerent at the slightest provocation. I think it might have been ADHD and/or OCD or something similar, and he said he was seeking treatment for this and trying to moderate his responses to others.
Bipolar.
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/bipolar/an-open-apology-to-the-internet.html/
He's also written several recovery updates, which are interesting and insightful, starting here with Part I:
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/bipolar/bipolar-recovery-update-1.html/5 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »grinning_chick wrote: »Other than genetics and the difference in genitalia, arguably the largest biological difference between women and men is in the relative amounts of the primary reproductive hormones.
I was open to reading Lyle's article regarding women when it was recommended elsewhere here on MFP (https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/announcements/women-nutrition-fat-loss-teaser.html/).
Then I read the above quoted sentence written by Lyle it contains. It tells me all I need to know about him. And that would be he doesn't know anything, is too lazy to bother to learn otherwise, but is going to insist he's a subject matter expert nonetheless. Ain't got no time for such nonsense.
Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Don't mistake tactfulness for knowledge. His style and voice aren't for everyone, but his knowledge is as respected as anyone's in the industry.
Nobody would ever accuse Lyle of being tactful lol, but a couple years ago he did come out with a public apology and indicated he had some disorder that made him overreact and become very belligerent at the slightest provocation. I think it might have been ADHD and/or OCD or something similar, and he said he was seeking treatment for this and trying to moderate his responses to others.
Bipolar.
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/bipolar/an-open-apology-to-the-internet.html/
He's also written several recovery updates, which are interesting and insightful, starting here with Part I:
https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/bipolar/bipolar-recovery-update-1.html/
Thanks, I forgot what it was that he was dealing with.0 -
grinning_chick wrote: »Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Homologous does not mean the same in every way. Organs can be homologous but still have differences of certain kinds. Fact is, the male and female sex organs do in fact have differences, from role in reproduction to the obvious difference in appearance. Doesn't mean anyone is arguing that they aren't homologous.
One of the points I've often seen Lyle McDonald make in podcasts he's done while researching the womens' book is that the fitness industry has long done women a disservice by treating them like smaller men and therefore ignoring the metabolic differences caused by the menstrual cycle, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, hormonal changes from birth control, as well as syndromes such as PCOS. The result: women vary not just from men, but from each other!
Personally can't wait to read the womens' book to see what sort of research he's come up with.17 -
gogetemrogue wrote: »grinning_chick wrote: »Men and women have biologically homologous genitalia. If you don't know this basic fact of human anatomy and physiology, you have zero business educating others about it, and anything coming out of your mouth after it is highly suspect regarding validity.
Homologous does not mean the same in every way. Organs can be homologous but still have differences of certain kinds. Fact is, the male and female sex organs do in fact have differences, from role in reproduction to the obvious difference in appearance. Doesn't mean anyone is arguing that they aren't homologous.
One of the points I've often seen Lyle McDonald make in podcasts he's done while researching the womens' book is that the fitness industry has long done women a disservice by treating them like smaller men and therefore ignoring the metabolic differences caused by the menstrual cycle, pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, hormonal changes from birth control, as well as syndromes such as PCOS. The result: women vary not just from men, but from each other!
Personally can't wait to read the womens' book to see what sort of research he's come up with.
A dolphins fin is homologous to my arm, I'm a crappy swimmer and Flipper doesn't even lift.18 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »A dolphins fin is homologous to my arm, I'm a crappy swimmer and Flipper doesn't even lift.
Exactly.
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Old man Logan.. er, Lyle, is far from FOS. After studying 20+ years of evidence based articles and coming across every imaginable form of fitness/nutrition related science, it's only a matter of time that you develop a finite tolerance, so he's not going to coddle feelings, but he's not outwardly going to attack someone for no reason. Sure you can allow google to finish the search for "why is Lyle McDonald ... " and go with that opinion, but it doesn't detract from his legitimacy and contribution to furthering research.5
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Whatevs!
I am sure that I can search through his web-site and catch more than one mistake. And I am sure that he has forgotten more about training, exercise and weight loss than I've ever learned. And that some other people that he associates with are even more scientific than he is in terms of their understanding.
But, you know what? He makes fairly well backed, relevant, and reasonable information available and presents it in a way that is understandable and often contains references that allow me to do my own further research!
I am not hiring him to be my god. Heck, I am not even hiring him at all! I am just mooching knowledge off his writings and applying the information as I see fit based on my own interpretation and further research.
And for him making this knowledge available all I can honestly do is thank him--deeply!
As for being skeptical... what is wrong with being skeptical? Taking any single sourced piece of information at face value seems stupid. That said... i wouldn't count on my fat cells getting water filled. Regardless, that won't stop water retention, or wooshes, especially when dealing with a stressed body.9 -
Whatevs!
I am sure that I can search through his web-site and catch more than one mistake. And I am sure that he has forgotten more about training, exercise and weight loss than I've ever learned. And that some other people that he associates with are even more scientific than he is in terms of their understanding.
But, you know what? He makes fairly well backed, relevant, and reasonable information available and presents it in a way that is understandable and often contains references that allow me to do my own further research!
I am not hiring him to be my god. Heck, I am not even hiring him at all! I am just mooching knowledge off his writings and applying the information as I see fit based on my own interpretation and further research.
And for him making this knowledge available all I can honestly do is thank him--deeply!
As for being skeptical... what is wrong with being skeptical? Taking any single sourced piece of information at face value seems stupid. That said... i wouldn't count on my fat cells getting water filled. Regardless, that won't stop water retention, or wooshes, especially when dealing with a stressed body.
I think his biggest arguments have been with people like Layne Norton over why so many female competitors have trouble losing weight for competitions after they have lost for them in the past. Layne speaks about metabolic issues such as adaptive thermogenesis and provides various evidence of that while Lyle takes the approach that the stress on female competitors raises cortisol rates leading to massive water retention. I don't know if that debate was ever resolved but I haven't heard much about it in the last couple years at least.1 -
gogetemrogue wrote: »...Personally can't wait to read the womens' book to see what sort of research he's come up with.
Hint: Lyle credited Eric Helms with being a significant source. Eric recently completed his PhD, is a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter, and has very solid research credentials.4 -
I have never heard of this person. What are his qualifications? Is he a doctor or sports Doc or a scientist? I looked him up after reading all this and found nothing.0
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gogetemrogue wrote: »...Personally can't wait to read the womens' book to see what sort of research he's come up with.
Hint: Lyle credited Eric Helms with being a significant source. Eric recently completed his PhD, is a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter, and has very solid research credentials.
I believe he has also credited Dr. Brad Dieter who has done lots of work on athletic performance and food- has a PhD in exercise physiology and was a contributor to the Alan Aragon Keto meta-analysis2 -
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