Hard losing
AtlasxMedic
Posts: 16 Member
Hey all, looking for some overall advice.
So I’m trying to chip away at my overall weight loss goal. I started January at 208lbs after being 195lb before Thanksgiving. I decided to fully clean up my diet, and put in more effort at the gym after Christmas. My daily meals now include 2-3 eggs for breakfast, veggies and chicken/fish for lunch, a protein shake following my workout, and then chicken/fish with veggies for dinner. I also drink 1/2 to 1 gallon of water a day. As for workouts, I work out 4x a week. 3 of those days, I start with 5-30mins of high intensity interval cardio and then lift weights for about 1 hour. The 4th day is dedicated to circuit training with cardio. I also make use of the sauna at my gym. After 4 weeks I weighed myself and I’m up to 220. I’m lost on what to do at this point, and I’m extremely discouraged. I’m not sure if I’m doing something wrong with my workouts or diet or both. Some have said I may not be taking in enough calories, but I’m not sure how to take in more calories and still be healthy. Others have said it’s just muscle gain, but I don’t see how I can gain 12 lbs of muscle without losing any fat.
I’d appreciate any and all input, advice, or criticism. Thanks!
**Edit** Just to clarify, I’ve discussed my issues with two doctors, and both have done labs and diagnostic testing. Both found no thyroid, insulin, or general metabolic issues.
So I’m trying to chip away at my overall weight loss goal. I started January at 208lbs after being 195lb before Thanksgiving. I decided to fully clean up my diet, and put in more effort at the gym after Christmas. My daily meals now include 2-3 eggs for breakfast, veggies and chicken/fish for lunch, a protein shake following my workout, and then chicken/fish with veggies for dinner. I also drink 1/2 to 1 gallon of water a day. As for workouts, I work out 4x a week. 3 of those days, I start with 5-30mins of high intensity interval cardio and then lift weights for about 1 hour. The 4th day is dedicated to circuit training with cardio. I also make use of the sauna at my gym. After 4 weeks I weighed myself and I’m up to 220. I’m lost on what to do at this point, and I’m extremely discouraged. I’m not sure if I’m doing something wrong with my workouts or diet or both. Some have said I may not be taking in enough calories, but I’m not sure how to take in more calories and still be healthy. Others have said it’s just muscle gain, but I don’t see how I can gain 12 lbs of muscle without losing any fat.
I’d appreciate any and all input, advice, or criticism. Thanks!
**Edit** Just to clarify, I’ve discussed my issues with two doctors, and both have done labs and diagnostic testing. Both found no thyroid, insulin, or general metabolic issues.
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Replies
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How many calories per day are you eating and how are you measuring those calories?4
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Redordeadhead wrote: »How many calories per day are you eating and how are you measuring those calories?
On my lowest days I have about 1200, and on my highest about 1500. I researched the calorie values on the vegetables I eat, as well as chicken/fish and eggs. If I use a sauce or anything I use the label and serving size to determine the calories.
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Your food diary is currently set to private so we can't determine if your calorie intake is accurate or not. If you've gained 12 lbs in the 4 weeks after weighing yourself, your calories in will more than likely be higher than what you are using.
What is your activity level? Do you work a desk job or a fairly physical job?
Weight loss is determined solely by calories. "Clean eating" and all that bs will not help you lose weight if you're still eating too many calories.
Weight and fat are 2 different things. All of those 12 lbs will more than likely not all be fat. When taking up a new exercise routine, your body will hold onto excess water while it repairs itself. To help determine your progress, I would recommend using a tape measure and measuring yourself across various parts of your body so you can use that to record progress as well.
Your body will not build muscle if you are in a deficit; this is a very common myth that if someone is not losing weight but still shrinking and losing fat, they are building muscle. This is not true and is likely the culprit of just your body holding onto water. Once your body has repaired itself and you get used to doing your workout routine or it starts feeling less difficult, you will likely notice a sudden drop in weight when you shed a lot of that excess water you were carrying.
Just a little disclaimer, I'm not a physician or dietitian in any way, if you seek proper medical advice or a workout / diet plan, seek a professional's help.10 -
Your food diary is currently set to private so we can't determine if your calorie intake is accurate or not. If you've gained 12 lbs in the 4 weeks after weighing yourself, your calories in will more than likely be higher than what you are using.
What is your activity level? Do you work a desk job or a fairly physical job?
Weight loss is determined solely by calories. "Clean eating" and all that bs will not help you lose weight if you're still eating too many calories.
Weight and fat are 2 different things. All of those 12 lbs will more than likely not all be fat. When taking up a new exercise routine, your body will hold onto excess water while it repairs itself. To help determine your progress, I would recommend using a tape measure and measuring yourself across various parts of your body so you can use that to record progress as well.
Your body will not build muscle if you are in a deficit; this is a very common myth that if someone is not losing weight but still shrinking and losing fat, they are building muscle. This is not true and is likely the culprit of just your body holding onto water. Once your body has repaired itself and you get used to doing your workout routine or it starts feeling less difficult, you will likely notice a sudden drop in weight when you shed a lot of that excess water you were carrying.
Just a little disclaimer, I'm not a physician or dietitian in any way, if you seek proper medical advice or a workout / diet plan, seek a professional's help.
So I take in about 1200-1500 calories a day, and per my FitBit I burn anywhere from 1600-2100. I work as a Paramedic so my activity at work varies.
As for taping - I tape every other week. Over these 4 weeks I’ve gained an inch to my chest, abdomen, and calves. Everything else is the same.
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Are you measuring calories by weighing food in grams on a scale? Using measuring cups and spoons? Eyeballing? It could be that you are eating more than you think. A scale would be the most accurate for solid foods.
If your exercise regime is new, you are also likely retaining some water (weight). This is temporary and will even out after a couple of weeks. Don't get discouraged!4 -
I buy my chicken and fish portioned out, so the butcher weighs it for me. Veggies and sauces are measure by cup and teaspoons respectively. This exercise regime is new in the sense that I’m more consistent. That’s the most frustrating part. I’m more dedicated and pushing harder, but that number keeps climbing. When I didn’t pay attention to my diet and worked out 1-2x per week I stayed the same weight for months. Only 3 years ago I was in the Army running sub 7-min miles and I weighed 140lbs. So that’s why I came here, to figure out where I can improve and what’s realistic because I’m lost at this point.1
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Don't push harder, work smarter. It looks like you want advice along the lines of "eat more" - sorry, that's not how things work - you have gotten the advice you need; it's up to you to take it or leave it.10
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kommodevaran wrote: »Don't push harder, work smarter. It looks like you want advice along the lines of "eat more" - sorry, that's not how things work - you have gotten the advice you need; it's up to you to take it or leave it.
There hasn’t really been any advice, just some principles pointed out to explain the why, and that’s what I came here for. You can get that “you want to eat more” nonsense out of here. I came here because I went through that flow chart and ended up in the red circle. So I went and read through more posts, and I’ve done my own research. This isn’t the first time I’ve tried to lose weight. I’ve tried various methods, diets, and workout plans and I either lose nothing or I gain weight. That causes me to get discouraged and I quit. I didn’t want to do that this time because there’s a lot more riding on this. So here I am, looking for facts rather than just people spouting their opinion.
People have asked questions for further clarification and I’ve answered them, so please show me where I apparently “want to eat more”.
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It doesn't sound like you are weighing your foods on a food scale. You have to be eating more than you think you are since you are gaining weight, and it's easy to do if you don't weigh every single thing you put in your mouth and make sure you are using correct database calorie entries, which there are a LOT of wrong ones.10
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AtlasxMedic wrote: »Your food diary is currently set to private so we can't determine if your calorie intake is accurate or not. If you've gained 12 lbs in the 4 weeks after weighing yourself, your calories in will more than likely be higher than what you are using.
What is your activity level? Do you work a desk job or a fairly physical job?
Weight loss is determined solely by calories. "Clean eating" and all that bs will not help you lose weight if you're still eating too many calories.
Weight and fat are 2 different things. All of those 12 lbs will more than likely not all be fat. When taking up a new exercise routine, your body will hold onto excess water while it repairs itself. To help determine your progress, I would recommend using a tape measure and measuring yourself across various parts of your body so you can use that to record progress as well.
Your body will not build muscle if you are in a deficit; this is a very common myth that if someone is not losing weight but still shrinking and losing fat, they are building muscle. This is not true and is likely the culprit of just your body holding onto water. Once your body has repaired itself and you get used to doing your workout routine or it starts feeling less difficult, you will likely notice a sudden drop in weight when you shed a lot of that excess water you were carrying.
Just a little disclaimer, I'm not a physician or dietitian in any way, if you seek proper medical advice or a workout / diet plan, seek a professional's help.
So I take in about 1200-1500 calories a day, and per my FitBit I burn anywhere from 1600-2100. I work as a Paramedic so my activity at work varies.
As for taping - I tape every other week. Over these 4 weeks I’ve gained an inch to my chest, abdomen, and calves. Everything else is the same.
Just covering some random bases, although I would think as a paramedic you would have recognized if either of these were an issue:
1) Water retention (in the sense of edema -- to account for 25 lbs, I would think you'd have noticed significant swelling
2) Constipation (I doubt that could account for 25 lbs, but it's still something to consider, and is not unusual in connection with severe calorie reduction, and often on these threads is something OPs don't seem to mention in the OP, and then it comes up later in the thread.
Other than that, the only suggestion I have is tighten up your logging. (Trying weighing your meat and fish -- maybe the butcher or fishmonger likes you and is being generous
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5 weeks lost 6.5 nearly half a stone,this week Saturday the 27th I stayed same 16 stone 3 and half so ok.Quite happy stayed same better than gaining.0
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@AtlasxMedic agree w/ others, use a food scale and weigh by the gram, log all ingredients like oils when making recipes. Log beverages. There must be hidden calories somewhere.1
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I cannot tell in your picture. Are you female or male? That makes a difference in your start weight. I also wonder about your mfp equation in your goal settings.
Are you at your correct activity settings? Do you do cheat days and not record them.
Something seems missing or awry in your tracking food, excercise or both.
You are doing Keto? How are you feeling health wise? I hope you find your answers.
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Chicken, fish, shakes and eggs are great. Might want some variety. But It all comes back to calories.5
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I think you are dong great. I get that you are frustrated, but it’s early. There is no way that you gained a significant amount of weight on your current regimen, even if things are not weighed perfectly. You’re not off by 1000 calories a day or anything!
I bet it’s water. You are lifting and I find a new lifting regimen makes me carry significant weight for awhile. I bet you get a big “woosh” soon.
You are doing the right thing for your health. I’m right with you on the low patience and if I were you i’d be frustrated too, but it’s easier to be calm and logical as an outsider. Stick with it. You’ll do great!5 -
Seems extremely low calories for a male. Where did you get this amount of daily calories to eat? Did you input your stats into MFP when you started? With that much activity seems your daily cals would be higher. Unless you're very short?AtlasxMedic wrote: »Redordeadhead wrote: »How many calories per day are you eating and how are you measuring those calories?
On my lowest days I have about 1200, and on my highest about 1500. I researched the calorie values on the vegetables I eat, as well as chicken/fish and eggs. If I use a sauce or anything I use the label and serving size to determine the calories.
I think your food choices sound great as well as your activities! Great job on those!!
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I don’t have a Fitbit but 1600 seems high to account for activity or is that your total daily calories? Maybe check to see if it calibrated right?2
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Thanks for the replies everyone! MFT wants me at 1700 calories a day. I marked myself as light activity because when I’m off of work I spend my 1.5-2hrs at the gym and then relax at home.
@Hearts_2015 I didn’t use an equation for my calories. When I started to clean up my diet, I based it off of needing more veggies and lots of protein. In all honesty, I started eating these foods and then calculated the calories. I obtained the calorie values from documents my previous nutritionist gave me. I do stand at a whole 5’6” though so that could be why I don’t feel like I’m starving at these lower numbers.
@smnovosad1 I appreciate your kind words. I never really thought about water weight until posting this, so maybe I should be less hard on myself.
@1houndgal Lol I am male (I need a better picture haha). As for cheat meals: I allow myself to have one occasionally, and what ends up happening is I eat fewer meals that day. For instance, I went out to lunch this week. My meal was around 800-1000 calories. My breakfast that day had been 350 calories. I ended up not having a protein shake that day, and for dinner I limited myself to 250 calories bringing my day to 1600.
@orangegato I will definitely try that out. I’m being told my chicken is all 4 oz, but I’m not verifying. However, would that account for so much weight gain?1 -
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Whole calorie burn. That’s where I usually avg with 2100 being the highest I’ve seen. I have some days where it’s only 1100 burned, but that’s maybe once a week on a rest day.
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@AtlasxMedic perhaps there’s a combination of factors in play. Some calorie and portion size underestimating. Some fluid retention. But medical causes were ruled out. So I don’t know. But I believe in CICO. Also weight is not linear so some people prefer to track trends/averages with some apps. Maybe that might be helpful for you as well since the numbers look surprising.1
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So to circle back to logging - if you eat something packaged or store bought, how are you measuring a portion/serving of that? Like if you ate oatmeal, how would you know how much is the 190 cal serving?1
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Your Fitbit issues your tdee for the day. This includes calories for existing (BMR), non exercise, AND exercise activity. Single total number is what you get. Is that 2100 or less?
Your MFP exercise adjustment equalises your mfp pre-selected tdee setting to the TDEE detected by Fitbit, and adjusts your food based on that.
I don't see your responses to other people's questions so maybe MFP is being a **kitten**.
I don't know if you're still obese but as you enter the overweight range you should consider lowering not increasing your deficit.
A high deficit and intense exercise is probably make you veg the rest of your day due to lack of energy. Why don't you try a couple of walks, or pacing outside your ambulance while waiting for a call. If you don't have the energy to do that, this indicates to me that you're overdoing your deficit.
Scale on hard, unyielding, floor.
First thing in the morning after using the washroom and before eating or drinking anything. Not during the day, before or after the gym or even clothed!
Plug numbers in trending weight app. Plug back numbers in there too while you're at it. Since using Fitbit, enter weight in Fitbit and connect account to trendweight.com
Obviously check for edema. And constipation.
If you're sore (muscles hurting), you ARE retaining water for muscle repair. Take out and commercial meals have high amounts of sodium. Balancing sodium requires water retention.
You say: "Sauces by portion size. Meal "about" 1000 Calories, when I cheat "about" x calories"
I get that people don't NEED to weigh everything obsessively to lose weight.
The answer is, always, that if you reduce calories you will lose weight. Whether you will lose fat, or lose optimally, or even appropriately, or injure your health due to malnutrition is not covered by the previous statement.
*I* personally think that eating the most I can while meeting my goals is better than trying for the hero medal of "eats nothing".
But eating the most you can while meeting your goals has a price. And the price is knowing what you eat.
You don't. What you're doing is called a *rough* estimate. Weighing each component on a scale and logging it appropriately before eating it is a better estimate. When you're here wondering how to account for the PAM spray you applied to your pot and then wiped off before cooking then you may be approaching precision (or slightly obsession
)
If your tdee is 2100 (which sounds incredibly low for a 5ft 6" 195lb guy that would lead me to think that you're making no effort to increase your non exercise burn (see the thread about increasing NEAT)) a cheat day and a doubling of the calories of your sauces and/or condiments/cooking oils/butter, because you're not measuring using a scale, can easily bring you close enough to 2100 to see very slow progress.
Serious gain though seems -- odd.5 -
I agree with everything Pav8888 said. Plus, double check your settings in Fitbit. That seems an incredibly low daily burn for your size. I'm an older, lighter and much shorter female and the lowest I've ever seen is around 1350 and that was while I was in the hospital and not moving much besides to the restroom.4
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OP, with your height and weight, if you were eating 1200-1500 calories a day, you'd be losing weight. Most people, myself included, think they're being precise with their logging when they start. But the truth is, it takes a while to get into the swing of things. Opening your diary could really help us help you.
MFP's activity setting is based on NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis). This is your daily activity without exercise being included. If you have a desk job, you're probably sedentary and might want to change your setting from lightly active. Either way, since you have your Fitbit connected, you should also enable "negative calorie adjustments" if you haven't already. This will allow MFP to deduct from your calorie allowance if you are less active than your MFP activity setting. Exercise calories are meant to be added in addition. Since it can be difficult to determine how many of the exercise calories to eat back, many people start with 50% and adjust from there.
There are ways to increase your NEAT. I have a desk job. And I take walk breaks to get steps in. It clears my head and gives me a little more calorie wiggle room. I get 10,000 steps a day outside of exercise. This technically puts me in MFP's "active" activity level, in spite of my desk job. My Garmin sends over my exercise in addition to my steps. Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories during the actual activity. The benefits include (over time) increased muscle mass which will burn more daily calories (higher BMR--Basic metabolic rate, what your body needs just to keep you breathing and your brain turned on--no activity considered).
However, it really all comes down to logging accurately. You don't need exercise to lose weight. It creates more wiggle room with the deficit and it helps with health and fitness, but all that is necessary for weight loss is a calorie deficit. It's hard to effectively know your calories out if your calories in aren't accurate. Weigh all solid foods on a food scale in grams (including the raw chicken breasts prior to cooking) and be sure to choose accurate entries in the database (they're not always accurate, even the "verified" green check marked ones). This also includes pre-packaged foods like frozen meals, yogurt, slices of bread and cheese, eggs, etc. Packaging can (legally) be off as much as 20% from the actual weight of the product. And there is often variance. Usually on the you're-eating-more-calories-than-you-think side, unfortunately. Use measuring cups and spoons for liquids. Log the blasts of cooking spray and any condiments like butter/margarine. If you use the barcode scanner, always double check the entry is correct (matches the packaging or the USDA database). Food nutrition content varies as products change and the database may not always be able to keep up. Over time, I've built my own little database of added foods as I haven't found ones in the database to match the food label for what I'm eating. It's a tiny investment of time on my part that helps in the overall picture.
USDA Nutrient Database
I know it may seem like a lot, but you'll get into the groove and it'll become second nature.
Others have said, weight loss doesn't always happen in a linear fashion. They're right. But if your CICO numbers are accurate, the weight will come off. Water weight, hormones, food waste all mask fat loss. Water weight can fluctuate up to 4-5 pounds per day. Men in a progressive lifting program lifting consistently can gain up to 2-4 pounds of muscle per month depending on a lot of other factors. Women like me .5-1 pound per month. It is unlikely all your gains are muscle, especially in such a short period of time. I really do think the issue is with the calories in portion of the equation. Don't be discouraged, you're going through the process a lot of us ahve been through.
Another measure is a DEXA scan. This will measure body fat, bone mass and lean mass. One every six months or so will tell you things the scale can't.
Hang in there!6 -
OP, with your height and weight, if you were eating 1200-1500 calories a day, you'd be losing weight. Most people, myself included, think they're being precise with their logging when they start. But the truth is, it takes a while to get into the swing of things. Opening your diary could really help us help you.
MFP's activity setting is based on NEAT (Non-Exercise Activity Thermogenesis). This is your daily activity without exercise being included. If you have a desk job, you're probably sedentary and might want to change your setting from lightly active. Either way, since you have your Fitbit connected, you should also enable "negative calorie adjustments" if you haven't already. This will allow MFP to deduct from your calorie allowance if you are less active than your MFP activity setting. Exercise calories are meant to be added in addition. Since it can be difficult to determine how many of the exercise calories to eat back, many people start with 50% and adjust from there.
There are ways to increase your NEAT. I have a desk job. And I take walk breaks to get steps in. It clears my head and gives me a little more calorie wiggle room. I get 10,000 steps a day outside of exercise. This technically puts me in MFP's "active" activity level, in spite of my desk job. My Garmin sends over my exercise in addition to my steps. Weight lifting doesn't burn many calories during the actual activity. The benefits include (over time) increased muscle mass which will burn more daily calories (higher BMR--Basic metabolic rate, what your body needs just to keep you breathing and your brain turned on--no activity considered).
However, it really all comes down to logging accurately. You don't need exercise to lose weight. It creates more wiggle room with the deficit and it helps with health and fitness, but all that is necessary for weight loss is a calorie deficit. It's hard to effectively know your calories out if your calories in aren't accurate. Weigh all solid foods on a food scale in grams (including the raw chicken breasts prior to cooking) and be sure to choose accurate entries in the database (they're not always accurate, even the "verified" green check marked ones). This also includes pre-packaged foods like frozen meals, yogurt, slices of bread and cheese, eggs, etc. Packaging can (legally) be off as much as 20% from the actual weight of the product. And there is often variance. Usually on the you're-eating-more-calories-than-you-think side, unfortunately. Use measuring cups and spoons for liquids. Log the blasts of cooking spray and any condiments like butter/margarine. If you use the barcode scanner, always double check the entry is correct (matches the packaging or the USDA database). Food nutrition content varies as products change and the database may not always be able to keep up. Over time, I've built my own little database of added foods as I haven't found ones in the database to match the food label for what I'm eating. It's a tiny investment of time on my part that helps in the overall picture.
USDA Nutrient Database
I know it may seem like a lot, but you'll get into the groove and it'll become second nature.
Others have said, weight loss doesn't always happen in a linear fashion. They're right. But if your CICO numbers are accurate, the weight will come off. Water weight, hormones, food waste all mask fat loss. Water weight can fluctuate up to 4-5 pounds per day. Men in a progressive lifting program lifting consistently can gain up to 2-4 pounds of muscle per month depending on a lot of other factors. Women like me .5-1 pound per month. It is unlikely all your gains are muscle, especially in such a short period of time. I really do think the issue is with the calories in portion of the equation. Don't be discouraged, you're going through the process a lot of us ahve been through.
Another measure is a DEXA scan. This will measure body fat, bone mass and lean mass. One every six months or so will tell you things the scale can't.
Hang in there!
All of this. It took me three months to figure out how to measure accurately enough and manage my hunger to get my calories into the deficit I wanted, but once you get it, this whole weight loss game becomes so much easier. You just need to be patient and keep at it. You can do this!2 -
orangegato wrote: »@AtlasxMedic perhaps there’s a combination of factors in play. Some calorie and portion size underestimating. Some fluid retention. But medical causes were ruled out. So I don’t know. But I believe in CICO. Also weight is not linear so some people prefer to track trends/averages with some apps. Maybe that might be helpful for you as well since the numbers look surprising.
Did I miss something? I didn't see anything from the OP indicating medical screening of any kind.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »orangegato wrote: »@AtlasxMedic perhaps there’s a combination of factors in play. Some calorie and portion size underestimating. Some fluid retention. But medical causes were ruled out. So I don’t know. But I believe in CICO. Also weight is not linear so some people prefer to track trends/averages with some apps. Maybe that might be helpful for you as well since the numbers look surprising.
Did I miss something? I didn't see anything from the OP indicating medical screening of any kind.
At the bottom of the initial post, he edited it.0 -
Did you weigh yourself on the same scale in the same place (which is also a flat, hard surface)?0
This discussion has been closed.
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