Abs
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If it's done correctly, the hollow plank variation is a good way to add some focus on the Transversus Abdominus which is quite often overlooked. Although if one gets to the point where they can hold it for several minutes, it's probably not useful anymore.1
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One thing I see in this thread is the discussion of visible abs versus function, not the same. Somebody can have very nice abs but it doesn't mean they're abs are in great shape, just means their nutrition is really well controlled and they're active to some degree. I have a buddy that hasn't touched a BB since high school but manages to keep semi-visible abs and he literally doesn't do *kitten*.
The abs stabilize your spine and trunk basically and control certain movement especially lumbar flexion. If you think about compound lifts, they're more about maintaining a stable trunk and spine during movement. So if one is to work on improving strength through movement of the trunk, then you need to train it somehow. It relates back to the Specificity Principle / SAID.5 -
crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.2 -
crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
That's definitely very ambitious for a person who doesn't compete, good on you.0 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.0 -
I've just started working my abs with 1 arm standing dumbbell presses.
This is following the advice that the abs main goal is to brace the core, it's also a nice shoulder workout.0 -
Looks like you are a bunch of knowledgeable folks. Question about my scenario. So I just started a small strength routine on Sunday (bicep curls, tricep pull downs, shoulder press, up right rows, and leg press) and I have been doing abs every day 3x25. For the strength portion I was planning on doing this 3 times a week. I also do cardio r/w or just walk everyday for 3 miles. My goal is to lose weight and decrease body fat. Should I be working my abs at this point? If so, is the routine I am doing above okay or should I be doing something a little bit different at this phase (e.g., planks)? Thanks!0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.1 -
Looks like you are a bunch of knowledgeable folks. Question about my scenario. So I just started a small strength routine on Sunday (bicep curls, tricep pull downs, shoulder press, up right rows, and leg press) and I have been doing abs every day 3x25. For the strength portion I was planning on doing this 3 times a week. I also do cardio r/w or just walk everyday for 3 miles. My goal is to lose weight and decrease body fat. Should I be working my abs at this point? If so, is the routine I am doing above okay or should I be doing something a little bit different at this phase (e.g., planks)? Thanks!
I would post this on a separate thread so that it can be properly addressed to you. Cheers.2 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.
For me, while I was doing my Oly lifting training, it was a basic assistance exercise for help with the snatch recovery. As a general workout it's probably not all that important but for sports specific training it has a lot of value.0 -
Looks like you are a bunch of knowledgeable folks. Question about my scenario. So I just started a small strength routine on Sunday (bicep curls, tricep pull downs, shoulder press, up right rows, and leg press) and I have been doing abs every day 3x25. For the strength portion I was planning on doing this 3 times a week. I also do cardio r/w or just walk everyday for 3 miles. My goal is to lose weight and decrease body fat. Should I be working my abs at this point? If so, is the routine I am doing above okay or should I be doing something a little bit different at this phase (e.g., planks)? Thanks!
The first thing to remember is that you weight-loss goals are most largely supported by your nutrition. Exercise is more to augment it. My suggestion is always to focus on your nutrition to ensure healthy weight-loss, and find a form of exercise that you enjoy and that will challenge you, possibly even just improve overall quality of life.
If you want to use resistance training as a form of training, finding a knowledgeable trainer would be a good thing for you I think.
Honestly, when I think about Core training I like to think about it holistically. The abs are only a segment of your Core musculature and it's good to think about the big picture. A good trainer should be able to help you. Trainers with an NCSA or NASM certification have a good knowledge base at least, I don't know much about ACE and there's another (AESM?) I think that does as well. Not always the sign of a good trainer (knowledge vs. application) but being armed with a good education in the subject-matter is a good start.1 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.
For me, while I was doing my Oly lifting training, it was a basic assistance exercise for help with the snatch recovery. As a general workout it's probably not all that important but for sports specific training it has a lot of value.
Good point, I can see it having value for Oly Lifters. For team sports training, that's a different animal entirely. There may be some application there but I'm not sure where I would fit that in to be honest. From lectures I've listened to from strength coaches that manage team sports athletes, everybody seems to have some different approaches.0 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.
For me, while I was doing my Oly lifting training, it was a basic assistance exercise for help with the snatch recovery. As a general workout it's probably not all that important but for sports specific training it has a lot of value.
Good point, I can see it having value for Oly Lifters. For team sports training, that's a different animal entirely. There may be some application there but I'm not sure where I would fit that in to be honest.
Interesting note to add, I was looking for more information about the OHS in OL and it seems that a lot of coaches do not advise it anymore except for working core and shoulder strength in beginner lifters. It's been a long time, but I think I remember that I stopped doing once I started hitting around the 80kg area. I wasn't a coach so the theory isn't really something I looked a lot at but it does make sense. Although I know there were coaches and lifters that were doing well into the 120KG+ range that still did OHS.0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.
For me, while I was doing my Oly lifting training, it was a basic assistance exercise for help with the snatch recovery. As a general workout it's probably not all that important but for sports specific training it has a lot of value.
Good point, I can see it having value for Oly Lifters. For team sports training, that's a different animal entirely. There may be some application there but I'm not sure where I would fit that in to be honest.
Interesting note to add, I was looking for more information about the OHS in OL and it seems that a lot of coaches do not advise it anymore except for working core and shoulder strength in beginner lifters. It's been a long time, but I think I remember that I stopped doing once I started hitting around the 80kg area. I wasn't a coach so the theory isn't really something I looked a lot at but it does make sense. Although I know there were coaches and lifters that were doing well into the 120KG+ range that still did OHS.
Wow 120kg OH Squat is pretty nuts. I'm comfortable with different Oly Lifts, but I'm definitely not well versed on training Olympic Lifting athletes or enthusiasts for competition so I can't really comment on the OHS in that regard.1 -
OHS is great at identifying weakness- and minimally improving strength through that.
Training straight OHS isn't doing anything for you other than getting you good at OHS- which is fine- it's like training a muscle up- it gets you good at doing a muscle up.
IMHO.1 -
It was mentioned in the video posted by @psuLemon as one of the best exercises for ab activation, but then not mentioned again in the video, and no one else has mentioned - ab roller. Costs 8 bucks at Walmart if you want your own or you can use a barbell, and gives you a really potent abs workout without the spine issues of crunches or the soul crushing boredom of planks. Roll out sideways to target different muscle groups.0
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crossfit_dottir wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »JAYxMSxPES wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »crossfit_dottir wrote: »Yo @stanmann571 I'm interested to hear what you think of the hollow planks
Since this came up, and it looks like you are doing two workouts a day, how frequently do you workout the same muscle groups?
Ehh... that's a question for a body builder. Crossfitters will do workouts where they use their whole body and not isolate one muscle group at a time.
My extra workouts are endurance based and I only do twice a day 3xper week.
Many of us do strengthening programs but usually that's before our wods and after our warmups.
Most boxes program that into the 1 hour workout. So you might have 20 min warm ups, 10 min strength and then the wod itself.
Thanks I actually was thinking it was the wrong question on my way to lunch. I take it you are competitive then?
Nope. I'm just a part of a box that's very good and ambitious.
It's cool that your coach has you doing a strength segment before the actual WOD. I've known various people that did CF and the ones that seems to do better had a coach that included strength progression into the program.
It's interesting that one of the local boxes here has probably the best Olympic Lifting coach in the country, or least he was there a few years ago when I last looked at it. The box also doubles as an Oly lifting training facility. I can say that the one thing I really like about CF is that it brought a lot of attention to the Oly lifts to the general public. I was surprised to see people in my gym doing overhead squats because they saw it being done for CF.
I'm not into CF personally, but if I had a local box with a high-caliber coach like that I would strongly consider taking his / her class. Training aside, for me it would be educational to learn from somebody like that.
I'm a little funny on the OH Squat thing. Aside from performing it as a diagnostic (unweighted), I'm not sure of the real value. The limiting factor isn't the lower body or even the lower-back, it's the shoulders. Maybe as a "finisher" type of exercise, dunno. Love to hear from a coach like you mentioned above as to how they view the exercise.
My box actually doubles as a Olympic lifting box as well and we have some Olly European and Scandinavian record holders among us.
Actually the OHS is one of my favourite lifts. It challenge your balance, shoulder mobility and stability and so many more but @rybo is more qualified to answer that question than I am.
Have you done the 15@BW OHS yet? That seemed to be a big thing in the CF community a few years ago when I was looking into it.0 -
OHS is great at identifying weakness- and minimally improving strength through that.
Training straight OHS isn't doing anything for you other than getting you good at OHS- which is fine- it's like training a muscle up- it gets you good at doing a muscle up.
IMHO.
For sure, the OHS is a great diagnostic tool when done un-weighted as you can see a lot about how one moves and muscle deficiencies with that exercise.
I agree with the ab-wheel comment. When I add those in after not doing them for while, I always have very sore abs for a couple days. Which shows that I'm giving my abs a stimulus that it couldn't handle very well essentially, one that isn't provided by compound lifts.1 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »OHS is great at identifying weakness- and minimally improving strength through that.
Training straight OHS isn't doing anything for you other than getting you good at OHS- which is fine- it's like training a muscle up- it gets you good at doing a muscle up.
IMHO.
For sure, the OHS is a great diagnostic tool when done un-weighted as you can see a lot about how one moves and muscle deficiencies with that exercise.
I agree with the ab-wheel comment. When I add those in after not doing them for while, I always have very sore abs for a couple days. Which shows that I'm giving my abs a stimulus that it couldn't handle very well essentially, one that isn't provided by compound lifts.
I'd add too just because you are using them for compound lifts doesn't mean you are maximizing the use- and or getting the whole "mind body' connection. I do compound lifts- and I dance and use a of muscles surrounding the pevic floor- and I still struggle to actively engage properly- which has driven me to far more ab focused work to make sure I'm properly engaging. Just because you use them and they are strong- doesn't mean it can't be better.
1 -
JAYxMSxPES wrote: »OHS is great at identifying weakness- and minimally improving strength through that.
Training straight OHS isn't doing anything for you other than getting you good at OHS- which is fine- it's like training a muscle up- it gets you good at doing a muscle up.
IMHO.
For sure, the OHS is a great diagnostic tool when done un-weighted as you can see a lot about how one moves and muscle deficiencies with that exercise.
I agree with the ab-wheel comment. When I add those in after not doing them for while, I always have very sore abs for a couple days. Which shows that I'm giving my abs a stimulus that it couldn't handle very well essentially, one that isn't provided by compound lifts.
I'd add too just because you are using them for compound lifts doesn't mean you are maximizing the use- and or getting the whole "mind body' connection. I do compound lifts- and I dance and use a of muscles surrounding the pevic floor- and I still struggle to actively engage properly- which has driven me to far more ab focused work to make sure I'm properly engaging. Just because you use them and they are strong- doesn't mean it can't be better.
Yes, absolutely. Once you started talking about being more athletic, good movement and proprioception is just as important as strength. The Core musculature as a whole, not just abs, is very key.
That topic gets missed in the whole conversation about abs. There's a big difference between having a 6-pack, being strong, and being "athletic." Which I feel dancers I athletes in their own right.1
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