Has anyone trained themselves to fidgit?
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Fidgeting seems like a positive to me (at least it seems to help with weight issues). Or really just an individual difference.
I've had anxiety issues in the past, and it did not manifest as fidgeting.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »gebeziseva wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »gebeziseva wrote: »I used to fidget a lot. I've now successfully trained myself out of it and can now sit calmly and move calmly instead of neurotically moving my legs for example. I see fidgeting as a flaw and as a sign of anxiety.
Just a random example plucked out of the ether and not addressed to anyone in particular? *grin* I definitely won't ask how you feel about hair twirling. As it is, I'm pretty fine with kicking my feet like a five-years old at my desk where no one can see me, especially if it's possibly helping me lose weight and definitely keeping my legs from getting stiff - I don't do it in court or in front of my in-laws or anything. That said, I do have an anxiety disorder, but it's pretty well medicated right now. I'm not aware of a connection between fidgeting and mental illness, but I suppose it's possible.
Ha. It was an example because that's what I used to do when I was fidgeting. I hadn't even read the other coments, yours including (I still haven't read it).
I also said anxiety not anxiety disorder, I did not imply a conection to mental illness. Cos that would be stupid.
I’m the OP and I thought I’d mentioned leg motions in the first post, is why I assumed you’d read my post. No worries! I was not posting about people who used to fidget or who have negative opinions of people who fidget, but was wondering about efforts to consciously increase NEAT. I get that a literal connection between fidgeting and mental illness sounds unlikely, but it can be rather hurtful to people with mental illnesses (not to mention hyperbolic) to use terms like “neurotic” and “anxiety” to describe things you dislike, so I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.gebeziseva wrote: »I used to fidget a lot. I've now successfully trained myself out of it and can now st calmly and move calmly instead of neurotically moving my legs for example. I see fidgeting as a flaw and as a sign of anxiety.
Fidgeting is a flaw?
It is to the people around you. I'm a fidgeter and it drives my husband and family nuts.
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Christine_72 wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »gebeziseva wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »gebeziseva wrote: »I used to fidget a lot. I've now successfully trained myself out of it and can now sit calmly and move calmly instead of neurotically moving my legs for example. I see fidgeting as a flaw and as a sign of anxiety.
Just a random example plucked out of the ether and not addressed to anyone in particular? *grin* I definitely won't ask how you feel about hair twirling. As it is, I'm pretty fine with kicking my feet like a five-years old at my desk where no one can see me, especially if it's possibly helping me lose weight and definitely keeping my legs from getting stiff - I don't do it in court or in front of my in-laws or anything. That said, I do have an anxiety disorder, but it's pretty well medicated right now. I'm not aware of a connection between fidgeting and mental illness, but I suppose it's possible.
Ha. It was an example because that's what I used to do when I was fidgeting. I hadn't even read the other coments, yours including (I still haven't read it).
I also said anxiety not anxiety disorder, I did not imply a conection to mental illness. Cos that would be stupid.
I’m the OP and I thought I’d mentioned leg motions in the first post, is why I assumed you’d read my post. No worries! I was not posting about people who used to fidget or who have negative opinions of people who fidget, but was wondering about efforts to consciously increase NEAT. I get that a literal connection between fidgeting and mental illness sounds unlikely, but it can be rather hurtful to people with mental illnesses (not to mention hyperbolic) to use terms like “neurotic” and “anxiety” to describe things you dislike, so I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt on that one.gebeziseva wrote: »I used to fidget a lot. I've now successfully trained myself out of it and can now st calmly and move calmly instead of neurotically moving my legs for example. I see fidgeting as a flaw and as a sign of anxiety.
Fidgeting is a flaw?
It is to the people around you. I'm a fidgeter and it drives my husband and family nuts.
I've only ever had a first grade teacher say anything.
Now being too chatty? That I'll cop to...and I know it's irritating to everyone. I've heard that one a LOT.0 -
How many calories are burned by talking? I may be on to something.3
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Lol, where are all these stairs? There is an external 1/2 flight of stairs (8 steps) outside of my (single story building) work and a 1/2 flight staircase leading into a park 2 blocks from my (single story) home.
Dang it, I’d be happy to take the stairs but I live in a single story world!0 -
Lol, where are all these stairs? There is an external 1/2 flight of stairs (8 steps) outside of my (single story building) work and a 1/2 flight staircase leading into a park 2 blocks from my (single story) home.
Dang it, I’d be happy to take the stairs but I live in a single story world!
Do you live in a warmer climate, by chance? I grew up in California, with lots of single story, sprawling structures. There are a lot more contained, multi-floor buildings in the freezing Midwest, only the stairwells are usually locked from the inside! No extra stairs for me. I do carpool and walk about ten minutes to get to my office, though.0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Lol, where are all these stairs? There is an external 1/2 flight of stairs (8 steps) outside of my (single story building) work and a 1/2 flight staircase leading into a park 2 blocks from my (single story) home.
Dang it, I’d be happy to take the stairs but I live in a single story world!
Do you live in a warmer climate, by chance? I grew up in California, with lots of single story, sprawling structures. There are a lot more contained, multi-floor buildings in the freezing Midwest, only the stairwells are usually locked from the inside! No extra stairs for me. I do carpool and walk about ten minutes to get to my office, though.
Yup, Texas. I don’t know anyone who lives in a multi-floor home and my husband does work in a multi story building but pretty sure those stairs are locked.1 -
I'm a fidgeter by nature, my Nan tried to train me out of it when I was a kid but it didn't really work0
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cmriverside wrote: »How many calories are burned by talking? I may be on to something.
It's probably more accurate to say talking is calorically resistant than burning.. I mean, it's socially nuanced whether it's acceptable to talk with one's mouth full, but if you're on a roll in engaging conversation, the chances of interrupting that flow with food intake is minimal
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I think I've sort of trained myself to do some fidget-like movements in some situations. For example, I'd been working on standing on one foot while waiting in line or other forced standing (subtly if around others
), and I find myself doing it now without consciously starting. Ditto for swinging one leg sometimes while working at the kitchen counter. It's become habit.
Some months back, I asked a couple of close and brutally honest friends, separately, if they thought of me as fidgety, and both said no. (One did say she thought I make atypically large gestures when I talk, FWIW.) I was trying to figure out why I lose/maintain on several hundred more daily calories than MFP thinks I should.
It is true that my kindergarten teacher tied me in my chair with my jump rope because I ran around too much. (It was 1959: I suspect she couldn't do that these days. No, I was not traumatized: I wouldn't even remember it if my parents - who didn't mind in the slightest - hadn't reminded me of it later.) I think it may've had more to do with starting school at age 4 than with being naturally fidgety though.
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I fidget constantly. My feet and toes are curling as I type. My husband says I even fidget when asleep. I've never thought of it as a flaw. A little annoying at times when I need to sit still but not a flaw.1
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MegaMooseEsq wrote: »I've always been a fidgeter, and perhaps at least partially related, never struggled with my weight until some life changes a few years ago. I made some efforts to break myself of the habit as an adult, but have allowed it to come back since learning about NEAT. I was recently listening to a Lyle McDonald podcast that suggested much of NEAT, including fidgeting, is genetic, and was wondering if anyone who wasn't a natural fidgeter has managed to successfully train themselves to do it. Would you have to think about it all the time? Would you stop moving if you stopped thinking about it?
Just as an anecdotal data point in favor of fidgeting, I've kept pretty tight data for over a year and a half now, and once I moved into a deficit (about nine months ago), have noticed consistently higher weight loss than would be accounted for by my calorie counting. I've had a number of theories about this and NEAT is definitely up there - I work a completely sedentary job, but am almost constantly moving my legs.
I don't fidget per se, but I have trained myself to move more while at my desk. For example, there's a program that I use regularly, and I've trained myself to get up and do something when I start the scan.
The notion of "sitting kills" might be overly alarmist...or it might not be.
https://www.amazon.com/Sitting-Kills-Moving-Heals-Everyday/dp/16103501891 -
I was a fidgeter when I was a kid, but back then, the nuns in Catholic school weren't too happy with that. I mildly fidget now, just toe twiddling.
I have, however, accustomed myself to not sitting. It's not fidgeting, and it's intentional, but I get very antsy if I don't get up and walk around for a while every hour. Sometimes I do it on my treadmill, sometimes I take a walk around the block, sometimes I do stuff around the house.
I think you can accustom yourself to sit less, yes.1 -
I wasn't a fidgeter until recently. My fidgeting, I suspect, is a medication side effect. I don't remember which one (I'm on a handful for psych issues), but one of them I'm on listed something like "restless movements". It's almost a compulsion, I can stop but it requires conscious thought. I suspect it's partly why (when I stick to my calories) I lose a little faster than I have MFP set for.
Does anyone know how much fidgeting burns? I usually tap fingers/toes or move feet around. Or both. When driving I tap both my thumbs on the steering wheel.0 -
I wasn't a fidgeter until recently. My fidgeting, I suspect, is a medication side effect. I don't remember which one (I'm on a handful for psych issues), but one of them I'm on listed something like "restless movements". It's almost a compulsion, I can stop but it requires conscious thought. I suspect it's partly why (when I stick to my calories) I lose a little faster than I have MFP set for.
Does anyone know how much fidgeting burns? I usually tap fingers/toes or move feet around. Or both. When driving I tap both my thumbs on the steering wheel.
I don't have a specific cite (sorry), but I think I remember reading a (small) study that suggested the 24-hour calorie impact could be in the low hundreds, at an extreme, compared to someone very still/placid.1 -
I did condition myself to get more movement in throughout the day, though it's a bit more than fidgeting. I shadow box and do little stretches/movements in my cubicle. I park a mile from my office. I pace or jog in place while I watch TV. Rather than taking one trip down the hallway at work to get a drink, a snack, and use the restroom, I'll make separate trips for each. Our file room is in the basement so I'll do my filing, and offer to fetch files for the other members of my team. I try to walk on my lunch breaks. This all adds up to thousands of extra steps per day for me and increased my TDEE by roughly 500 calories.2
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I fidget a lot but it doesn't really bother me anymore and if it helps me lose weight then great.0
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I wasn't a fidgeter until recently. My fidgeting, I suspect, is a medication side effect. I don't remember which one (I'm on a handful for psych issues), but one of them I'm on listed something like "restless movements". It's almost a compulsion, I can stop but it requires conscious thought. I suspect it's partly why (when I stick to my calories) I lose a little faster than I have MFP set for.
Does anyone know how much fidgeting burns? I usually tap fingers/toes or move feet around. Or both. When driving I tap both my thumbs on the steering wheel.
I don't have a specific cite (sorry), but I think I remember reading a (small) study that suggested the 24-hour calorie impact could be in the low hundreds, at an extreme, compared to someone very still/placid.
No worries, I was just looking for an estimate. I was guessing a couple hundred, because I lost about half to one pound a week over what MFP is set to (1.5 pounds).0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »MegaMooseEsq wrote: »@MegaMooseEsq, how many extra calories does your data support? 1%? 5%?
I've never put much stock in in the idea of being able to substantially change NEAT by fidgeting or always parking farther away or making other efforts to increase NEAT as a priority, especially when comparing the potential magnitude to ensuring one has set their calorie level and is logging correctly. However, this data of which you speak has me intrigued.
Not accounting for intentional exercise, I lose weight at the rate expected of an individual at MFP's "active" daily activities (I am clearly sedentary by the MFP model). I've checked this against the USDA body weight planner (a TDEE model), and the difference comes out to maybe 200-300 calories a day (or the calories estimated for someone eight inches taller than myself). Converted to a percentage of my daily intake, that's currently 10-15% of my daily intake. Certainly this could be due to logging issues, being towards an end of the BMI bell curve, or something else entirely, but there does seem to be some science behind the NEAT theory. Whether or not one can consciously increase NEAT is another question, one I am also skeptical about. Thus my post!
ETA: Edited edit because I'm trying to break myself of the impulse to apologize when I get a "woo."
Interesting, thanks for sharing. It's not natural for me to fidget unless severely over-caffeinated. I'll have to try the estimator you mentioned to see. TdeeCalulator.net has my TDEE overestimated by 100 calories or so; maybe that's saying I fidget less than the average.
It's at https://www.supertracker.usda.gov/bwp/index.html - I've personally found it much more useful than the MFP estimates and haven't bothered to close my diary in ages. As an experiment, I tried the calculator you linked and it underestimated my TDEE by about 400 calories.
Likewise, I tried the one you linked and got a TDEE almost 500 calories higher than what I've observed mine to be. I think "moderate" activity is valid based on their description and my 3x/week full body weightlifting and 1-2x/week cardio.0
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