Intermittent Fasting
Replies
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You may enjoy looking up Arthur De Vany on youtube or checking out his book The New Evolution Diet. He is 80 years old and in fantastic shape. He follows a paleo diet (and is considered the father of Paleo) and eats only Breakfast and Dinner. He talks much of the life extension benefits of this style of eating.
http://caloriesproper.com/some-nuances-of-intermittent-fasting/3 -
I think the comment section was more informative than the study they did. I also have read that fasting makes fat cells more efficient at storing fat in mice. Obviously calorie counting is still important when doing IF.4 -
Fasting creates a negative energy balance, which reduces stored fat cell energy, which increases insulin sensitivity, which responds to the cellular energy status of the fat cell, which makes it easier to store fat in mammals, including mice and humans. The point is that IF is not magic, nor is it inherently advantageous to other methods of creating a caloric deficit, which was my initial response in this thread. It's merely one of many tools to restrict intake. Truth is that no one is eating every minute of the day, and I don't know how that would be possible considering sleep is part of the natural fasting period.
Comment section being more "informative" than the study is akin to preferring n=1 anecdotes over data. Granted, it's always going to boil down to individual response, but that is not grounds to recommend it to everyone. Saying that De Vany [insert paleo title] uses it for his own personal health and longevity doesn't constitute strong evidence for a recommendation.
Do some people benefit from IF? Sure they do. Will all people benefit from IF? No.8 -
Fasting creates a negative energy balance, which reduces stored fat cell energy, which increases insulin sensitivity, which responds to the cellular energy status of the fat cell, which makes it easier to store fat in mammals, including mice and humans. The point is that IF is not magic, nor is it inherently advantageous to other methods of creating a caloric deficit, which was my initial response in this thread. It's merely one of many tools to restrict intake. Truth is that no one is eating every minute of the day, and I don't know how that would be possible considering sleep is part of the natural fasting period.
Comment section being more "informative" than the study is akin to preferring n=1 anecdotes over data. Granted, it's always going to boil down to individual response, but that is not grounds to recommend it to everyone. Saying that De Vany [insert paleo title] uses it for his own personal health and longevity doesn't constitute strong evidence for a recommendation.
Do some people benefit from IF? Sure they do. Will all people benefit from IF? No.
Yeah, it makes since.0 -
http://caloriesproper.com/some-nuances-of-intermittent-fasting/
Intermittent fasting (IF) is not a universal panacea, regardless of whether you’re not eating anything at all for a few days each week/month or just restricting your feeding window to a few hours per day.
Some protocols, eg, 20h fasting every second day, significantly improve insulin sensitivity in adipose tissue (Halberg et al., 2005). This is expected to make fat gain easier, and while this wasn’t meant to be a study on body composition per se…
Skipping breakfast and ingesting all of their calories in a four-hour feeding window in the evening: “Subjects consuming a single large daily meal exhibit elevated fasting glucose levels, and impaired morning glucose tolerance associated with a delayed insulin response, during a 2 month diet period compared to those consuming 3 meals/day.”
To summarize: loss of muscle mass (Halberg and Heilbronn), increased hunger (Heilbronn), and diabetogenic (Carlson). These aren’t good things; this way of eating is definitely not for everyone.
Can some people benefit from intermittent fasting? Sure, but best choose your fasting/feeding schedule wisely; keep in line with circadian rhythms as meal timing is an important zeitgeber. That means eating when the sun is up; frequency is up to you.
I’m not 100% against intermittent fasting and I don’t deny that some IF protocols may work [for some people], but IF is not a universal panacea or necessary to be healthy, and can even be harmful in some contexts.
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anubis609 - I agree with everything you replied to me about, except for maybe the 100% credibility of the data as I am not qualified to judge the bias of it. Sorry about the "Including the preferring n=1 anecdotes over data", that's my flaw. However for people who are obese, narrowing the feeding window from 16 hours or more ( and yes I'm certain there are people who eat almost every waking hour, even if its only a nibble) it's going to be beneficial to give their poor overworked pancreas a rest. I know my usual trend is to eat a ton right before bedtime. Some people even get up in the middle of the night to eat. I agree that IF is useless if you aren't counting calories and eating junk food and might make some people binge. To experiment over the last 2 days, and I was plateauing somewhat. I stopped eating at 8pm instead of 10. 2 lbs lost in the last 2 days. No major caloric difference. I think people should maybe look more towards Circadian eating rather than IF though. I recommend watching this video.
https://youtu.be/qPpAvvPG0nc or anything by Dr. Satchin Panda
Best wishes!4 -
I too skip breakfast.1
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anubis609 - I agree with everything you replied to me about, except for maybe the 100% credibility of the data as I am not qualified to judge the bias of it. Sorry about the "Including the preferring n=1 anecdotes over data", that's my flaw. However for people who are obese, narrowing the feeding window from 16 hours or more ( and yes I'm certain there are people who eat almost every waking hour, even if its only a nibble) it's going to be beneficial to give their poor overworked pancreas a rest. I know my usual trend is to eat a ton right before bedtime. Some people even get up in the middle of the night to eat. I agree that IF is useless if you aren't counting calories and eating junk food and might make some people binge. To experiment over the last 2 days, and I was plateauing somewhat. I stopped eating at 8pm instead of 10. 2 lbs lost in the last 2 days. No major caloric difference. I think people should maybe look more towards Circadian eating rather than IF though. I recommend watching this video.https://youtu.be/qPpAvvPG0nc or anything by Dr. Satchin Panda
Best wishes!
As humans, we're inclined to be selective of favorable responses over those that oppose our views. It's an inherent trait, so I don't want to imply that I'm shaming you for a natural response, but since we are capable of higher reasoning, an objective and unbiased view is much more progressive than confirmation bias.
The overarching agreement is that people should not be gorging on excessive energy when there is no need to. From an evolutionary perspective, the reason why we store fat is to prepare for periods of famine. In that context, fasting was unintentional, but it was a natural occurrence. In westernized culture, food availability is abundant and we don't have a risk of famine, so now people have to mindfully restrict their eating windows as practiced through IF. And to your credit, calories still count so even if people restricted their window to 1-8 hours, they might see it as an opportunity to binge as much as they can within that time.
While I'm more inclined to suggest and follow flexible dieting strategies, I am an advocate of following a circadian cycle for people with disrupted eating patterns. Eat well when the sun is up and restrict it when the sun goes down. For that, you may still enjoy Bill Lagakos's articles through his site:
http://caloriesproper.com/meal-timing-and-peripheral-circadian-clocks/
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While I'm more inclined to suggest and follow flexible dieting strategies, I am an advocate of following a circadian cycle for people with disrupted eating patterns. Eat well when the sun is up and restrict it when the sun goes down. For that, you may still enjoy Bill Lagakos's articles through his site:
http://caloriesproper.com/meal-timing-and-peripheral-circadian-clocks/
Thanks, there are a lot of interesting articles there. It would be an interesting experiment to try eating according to light. I don't think I could handle my last meal being so early. I find my sleep is much lighter with an empty stomach, maybe its an adjustment thing. Right now due to latitude I'd be eating breakfast sometime around 8:30 and and dinner at 5 pm. That's pretty much like Intermittent Fasting I would think. The summer months would allow more flexibility.
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Hello, I've been doing IF for 3 weeks, I've lost 13.2 lbs and about 9 inches from neck, chest, belly. I am very happy with this eating plan. (hard to call it a diet since you're not eating) I have followed the advice of Brad Pilon and his Eat-Stop-Eat plan. He recommends 24-hour fasts to get the 70% of the physiological benefits.
At first, I thought it would be very difficult for me since my appetite has always been my biggest challenge. On my non-fasting times, I've been following high fat low carb which has been very effective for appetite control.
Another benefit for me has been that my blood sugar readings have dropped from the 170-180 range to the 120 - 130 range so basically 50 points and I've cut my medicine dosages pretty much in half. IN almost 2 years my doctor's recommendations haven't had much effect for me. Go figure, if I don't go back he loses a customer.
My plan is to stick to this plan for 90 days and then go in for a blood test for my A1C levels.
If you'd like fully researched information on IF Brad Pilon has it in his book. https://www.naturalsolutionsnow.com/pilon
Another thing from the book that helped me was rather than calculating my daily caloric intake to do it weekly instead. For example, Normal consumption of 2000 calories/day = 14,000/week. 2 - 24-hour fasting time should cut your weekly intake by 4000 calories, or slightly more than 1 lb. weight loss.
For me, the easiest time to start my fast is 6 PM right after dinner that lasts until dinner at 6 PM the next day. That way I don't skip any whole day without eating.
If you're on the fence, give it a try. Get full research from Brad's book
I will look into it when I get a chance. Thank you for your share! Great weight loss, great job!
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While I'm more inclined to suggest and follow flexible dieting strategies, I am an advocate of following a circadian cycle for people with disrupted eating patterns. Eat well when the sun is up and restrict it when the sun goes down. For that, you may still enjoy Bill Lagakos's articles through his site:
http://caloriesproper.com/meal-timing-and-peripheral-circadian-clocks/
Thanks, there are a lot of interesting articles there. It would be an interesting experiment to try eating according to light. I don't think I could handle my last meal being so early. I find my sleep is much lighter with an empty stomach, maybe its an adjustment thing. Right now due to latitude I'd be eating breakfast sometime around 8:30 and and dinner at 5 pm. That's pretty much like Intermittent Fasting I would think. The summer months would allow more flexibility.
Circadian timing is a form of IF/time restricted feeding. However, the difference as you've pointed out is that the feeding window follows daylight patterns. In the spring and summer, people are generally more active (increased energy output), and would allow for more of an energy intake. In the winter, people tend to be more sedentary (energy conservation) and you wouldn't need much of an incoming supply.
If following circadian rhythms, you would be sleeping earlier and later in change with the seasons. So if your last meal is 5pm, ideally, you would be sleeping earlier. Read the article. Hunger can be entrained in conjunction with time, just like sleep. If you're a late sleeper/night owl, of course a 5pm dinner wouldn't suffice, but neither would circadian entrainment. If you don't have disrupted sleep and eating patterns, and you're without metabolic dysfunction, then following a circadian cycle is outside the scope of the suggestion.
I've followed a circadian eating and sleep pattern for the better part of 7 months, and it does well as long as you don't conflict it with confounding lifestyle factors. Otherwise, if you're active and healthy, eat what you want at a time that works with your personal schedule and there would be no reason to worry about restricting the window.3 -
lost another pound and starting to rearrange my schedule. Workout in the morning, music, then computer and misc.1
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MaryBethHempel wrote: »I am going to do 18 hours of fasting 6:30 pm until 12:30 pm, and eat between 12:30-6:30pm. Today I did 20:4, because I just wasn't hungry and wanted to work out before I ate, among other circumstances. I will do some more research on it tomorrow. You can do 12:12, 18:6, or 20:4. You can have black coffee, tea, or water during fast times. I had a sugar-free orange drink mixed with orange Powerade Zero today during the fast time. I wouldn't think that it would matter, as long as it is sugar-free.
Can you have chicken broth or stock instead of tea for example?
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JulieAL1969 wrote: »MaryBethHempel wrote: »I am going to do 18 hours of fasting 6:30 pm until 12:30 pm, and eat between 12:30-6:30pm. Today I did 20:4, because I just wasn't hungry and wanted to work out before I ate, among other circumstances. I will do some more research on it tomorrow. You can do 12:12, 18:6, or 20:4. You can have black coffee, tea, or water during fast times. I had a sugar-free orange drink mixed with orange Powerade Zero today during the fast time. I wouldn't think that it would matter, as long as it is sugar-free.
Can you have chicken broth or stock instead of tea for example?
[/quote
I think you can make it your own way Julie. I had to work up this way...I started slow, so my body wouldn't be craving so much.0 -
Hoping it’s not too late to join this thread!!! I have done IF in the past and had great success with it. Some great reading here and eager to get back on the IF wagon!1
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dawnemmett wrote: »Hoping it’s not too late to join this thread!!! I have done IF in the past and had great success with it. Some great reading here and eager to get back on the IF wagon!
Awesome!! Great to have you here! Please do share your experiences from the past! 0 -
I just jump the whole conversation, because I have a question...that you might already spoke off,but didn't have the patience to read it all....I promise,later I will....Is 18:6 actually 18h fast and 6 eating???2
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draganana484 wrote: »I just jump the whole conversation, because I have a question...that you might already spoke off,but didn't have the patience to read it all....I promise,later I will....Is 18:6 actually 18h fast and 6 eating???
Yes. For example, you might finish eating on Monday at 6:00 at night. Then you next eat food at noon the next day. I find that difficult to do most days so I prefer 16:8.0 -
Tblackdogs wrote: »draganana484 wrote: »I just jump the whole conversation, because I have a question...that you might already spoke off,but didn't have the patience to read it all....I promise,later I will....Is 18:6 actually 18h fast and 6 eating???
Yes. For example, you might finish eating on Monday at 6:00 at night. Then you next eat food at noon the next day. I find that difficult to do most days so I prefer 16:8.
I do IF on a 16:8 schedule or thereabout. When I started IF, I was hungry early and was always watching the clock - waiting to 2 PM to eat. Eventually you adjust to the schedule. Now I eat when I feel hungry - might be any time from 2 PM to 6 PM depending on the day.3 -
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Definitely and way more energy!!1 -
Started IF 29 months ago. SW 252, CW 195 (57-lbs lost and kept off). I'm 6' 1/2". Lost most of it quick doing a 20:4 schedule and have maintained doing a 16:8 schedule (with a low carb lunch). I eat ad libitum in the evenings (I eat tell full and the graze after in my eating window) and have not had to measure anything or count calories. It has been really good for me and I get much less hungry doing this than eating a small meal and then having to stop eating before I'm full. As long as I lift and get adequate protein, the muscle loss has been minimal or none. I run 3-4 times/week and and have lifted on and off.3
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Hi all, and thans for the info!!!
I am curious, is it important to start your fasting few hours before sleep? Lately I have very bad cravings,ao I started IF ,18/6. I start eating at 4pm, finish at 10pm,so I can cover my evening cravings,but the thing is,I go to bed at 10-10.30 pm.So I practically eat before I go to sleep.
What do you think about this?0 -
I did IF for about 5 months consecutively. I lost 25 pounds. I stopped, but not abruptly. The greatest thing I learned from IF is that I don't have to eat first thing in the morning. I tend to eat around 11am. Never before 10 unless I have an exercise class. Then, I may do a small protein shake. 1 hr before. I don't eat after 7. I have continued to loose weight after IF. It's just made me more aware of what and how I eat. It improved my health. Dr. cut my BP Med in half. I'm going to start If again. Dr. said I could go off totally with more weight loss. I've got 20 more to go.1
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Interesting discussion, thanks! I've always wondered about this.0
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Fasting creates a negative energy balance, which reduces stored fat cell energy, which increases insulin sensitivity, which responds to the cellular energy status of the fat cell, which makes it easier to store fat in mammals, including mice and humans. The point is that IF is not magic, nor is it inherently advantageous to other methods of creating a caloric deficit, which was my initial response in this thread. It's merely one of many tools to restrict intake. Truth is that no one is eating every minute of the day, and I don't know how that would be possible considering sleep is part of the natural fasting period.
Comment section being more "informative" than the study is akin to preferring n=1 anecdotes over data. Granted, it's always going to boil down to individual response, but that is not grounds to recommend it to everyone. Saying that De Vany [insert paleo title] uses it for his own personal health and longevity doesn't constitute strong evidence for a recommendation.
Do some people benefit from IF? Sure they do. Will all people benefit from IF? No.
Sorry, I hit woo on your post when I meant to hit "like". I think yours is one of the best responses in here.1 -
draganana484 wrote: »Hi all, and thans for the info!!!
I am curious, is it important to start your fasting few hours before sleep? Lately I have very bad cravings,ao I started IF ,18/6. I start eating at 4pm, finish at 10pm,so I can cover my evening cravings,but the thing is,I go to bed at 10-10.30 pm.So I practically eat before I go to sleep.
What do you think about this?
No. I like going to bed with a full belly, and it hasn't hindered my weight loss.0 -
I just drink ... anything without calories, so black Coffee, diet drinks, water, herbal, black and green teas ... dont bother with bcaa's .. thats for 20/4 and 18/61
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What a great thread with lots of info. I may have missed this, but ive read quite a few concerning issues whilst doing IF. Mainly missed periods and fertility issues. That scares me. I basically said ill be starting IF today and eating 1450 calories, 1st week 14 hour fast, 2nd week 16 hour fast, 3rd week 18 hour fast and ill stop. Will this greatly affect my hormones? All the articles ive read though with women losing their periods they seem to be on very low calories i.e 500 calories..please guide me in the right direction as i love to learn but dont want to fudge up my body as id like to start trying for a baby in the very near future. Thank you1
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