Stretching

lporter229 wrote: »

Chieflrg wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

I wake up stiff and hurting every morning--OA, so I need to stretch before I start my day. It takes most of the pain away so I can function. When I get to the pool or gym, I'm ready to start my workout. The OP doesn't mention that she's lifting.

My bad, I took strengthening as lifting since it's the best way to achieve that goal.

Yeah most of my pain is relieved by just moving and lifting, no stretching necessary thankfully.

It's sad when people don't lift, strength training has so many benefits for a longer better quality life.

True, but so do stretching and agility drills. I am 46 years old and last spring I realized that I could run a marathon, but I could not jump onto a 12 inch box. I started incorporating strength training, stretching and agility drills into my workout routine and I am proud to say that I can now jump on a 12 inch box with ease and have increased my functional mobility in other areas as well. As I age, I want to continue to do the physical activities that I enjoy without pain, and I feel like a combination of all of these types of exercises (along with my regular cardio workouts) will enable me to do that.

Just because you did stretching, doesn't mean that is the reason why you can now jump on a box. That comes from training jumping more than previously.

If you want to get better at anything, you specifically train more of that task.

I hazard that strength training had more to do with your ability to jump better as data shows strength training is beneficial to dailly functions as well as physical tasks or sports, not extra stretching.

To jump farther or higher one must get stronger and be able to transfer that power from a contracted muscle. Stretching teaches a muscle to relax not contract.

Chieflrg wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

Chieflrg wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

I wake up stiff and hurting every morning--OA, so I need to stretch before I start my day. It takes most of the pain away so I can function. When I get to the pool or gym, I'm ready to start my workout. The OP doesn't mention that she's lifting.

My bad, I took strengthening as lifting since it's the best way to achieve that goal.

Yeah most of my pain is relieved by just moving and lifting, no stretching necessary thankfully.

It's sad when people don't lift, strength training has so many benefits for a longer better quality life.

True, but so do stretching and agility drills. I am 46 years old and last spring I realized that I could run a marathon, but I could not jump onto a 12 inch box. I started incorporating strength training, stretching and agility drills into my workout routine and I am proud to say that I can now jump on a 12 inch box with ease and have increased my functional mobility in other areas as well. As I age, I want to continue to do the physical activities that I enjoy without pain, and I feel like a combination of all of these types of exercises (along with my regular cardio workouts) will enable me to do that.

Just because you did stretching, doesn't mean that is the reason why you can now jump on a box. That comes from training jumping more than previously.

If you want to get better at anything, you specifically train more of that task.

I hazard that strength training had more to do with your ability to jump better as data shows strength training is beneficial to dailly functions as well as physical tasks or sports, not extra stretching.

To jump farther or higher one must get stronger and be able to transfer that power from a contracted muscle. Stretching teaches a muscle to relax not contract.

No, stretching / mobility does allow one to improve their VJ or distance that needs to be trained. However, if one is too immobile to execute the jump correctly then it will diminish how high / far they jump and can affect how they land and landing badly is something that can result in an injury.

Again, everybody is going to have different levels of mobility. Some people don't need to do mobility work and others do. It's something that's on a case-by-case basis and to have a blanket statement that somebody does or does not need to do mobility work is just wrong. And even for those that need it, may not need as much of it on some days.

I realize you're not saying this, but it almost reminds me of the question, "why do you need to learn how to get up from the floor" that was posed after my knee surgery last winter. Let me just say, there are plenty of reasons why one would need to do so (and it's not just, "I fell and I can't get up"). No I don't spend a lot of time sitting on the floor (though if I had a small child or took care of children I'm sure I would), but things like getting out of the a pool (without using the stairs on the side), looking at and getting books from shelves that are inches from the floor, getting things from low deep cabinets, gardening - all things that I do that require getting up from the floor and only one of those is sports related (and even then, just barely).

I am not surprised that there is a school of people that believes that stretching is not necessary and potentially detrimental. When I have time I may do more than just skim the link you provided, but in terms of my current stretching needs, I get my advice from my physical therapists and my orthopedist, all of whom work at a teaching hospital and specialize in sports medicine. These are all people who work with athletes of all levels and nonathletes alike. Additionally, one of them has worked extensively with olympians both at the olympic training center in Colorado Springs and during the olympics in Rio. I don't say that to name drop, but rather to say that it's not like I'm getting my information from people who don't know what they're talking about and don't treat a people with an exceedingly wide variety of needs.

When I was climbing (which is something that I physically can't do right now due to injury) I found stretching very important. That said I was also very strong and, yes, core strength was a big deal. I can come up with a number of sports and other athletic like pursuits where flexibility is important, most (if not all) martial arts, gymnastics, probably fencing, figure skating, probably ski jumping, diving, aerial skiing, ballet (some people wouldn't call ballet a sport, but there is undeniably a lot of athleticism that goes into ballet), some aspects of cycling (getting into and maintaining a very aero position...), and that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

aokoye wrote: »

I realize you're not saying this, but it almost reminds me of the question, "why do you need to learn how to get up from the floor" that was posed after my knee surgery last winter. Let me just say, there are plenty of reasons why one would need to do so (and it's not just, "I fell and I can't get up"). No I don't spend a lot of time sitting on the floor (though if I had a small child or took care of children I'm sure I would), but things like getting out of the a pool (without using the stairs on the side), looking at and getting books from shelves that are inches from the floor, getting things from low deep cabinets, gardening - all things that I do that require getting up from the floor and only one of those is sports related (and even then, just barely).

I am not surprised that there is a school of people that believes that stretching is not necessary and potentially detrimental. When I have time I may do more than just skim the link you provided, but in terms of my current stretching needs, I get my advice from my physical therapists and my orthopedist, all of whom work at a teaching hospital and specialize in sports medicine. These are all people who work with athletes of all levels and nonathletes alike. Additionally, one of them has worked extensively with olympians both at the olympic training center in Colorado Springs and during the olympics in Rio. I don't say that to name drop, but rather to say that it's not like I'm getting my information from people who don't know what they're talking about and don't treat a people with an exceedingly wide variety of needs.

When I was climbing (which is something that I physically can't do right now due to injury) I found stretching very important. That said I was also very strong and, yes, core strength was a big deal. I can come up with a number of sports and other athletic like pursuits where flexibility is important, most (if not all) martial arts, gymnastics, probably fencing, figure skating, probably ski jumping, diving, aerial skiing, ballet (some people wouldn't call ballet a sport, but there is undeniably a lot of athleticism that goes into ballet), some aspects of cycling (getting into and maintaining a very aero position...), and that's just what I can come up with off the top of my head.

Just to clarify, because I realize it may seem like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth. Not all stretching is bad, if it has a purpose and is needed for a specific activity, I can get behind it. But, we all don't need to be as flexible as a ballerina or a gymnast. When we increase our range of motion, we also become more injury prone in that area since muscles and ligaments arent as tight around the joints in that area. For instance, I have a bad shoulder that used to fall out when sleeping. Lots of pt never once did I stretch it, but I did lots of exercises to strengthen muscles around the joint and maintain range of motion. I dropped the throwing the ball exercises, and I haven't had my shoulder dislocate in 8 year or so. My crampons even blew last weekend and I can hold my entire body weight on my shoulder now. Touches wood. I'll probably never (strong word, I know) stretch that shoulder again.

The idea that stretching is needed before and after a workout just because, is the main way stretching is applied. And it is the most dangerous. And I believe it should be avoided. It's a training myth, like you need to feel a burn to have training gains.

Chieflrg wrote: »

JAYxMSxPES wrote: »

Chieflrg wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

Chieflrg wrote: »

snowflake954 wrote: »

I wake up stiff and hurting every morning--OA, so I need to stretch before I start my day. It takes most of the pain away so I can function. When I get to the pool or gym, I'm ready to start my workout. The OP doesn't mention that she's lifting.

My bad, I took strengthening as lifting since it's the best way to achieve that goal.

Yeah most of my pain is relieved by just moving and lifting, no stretching necessary thankfully.

It's sad when people don't lift, strength training has so many benefits for a longer better quality life.

True, but so do stretching and agility drills. I am 46 years old and last spring I realized that I could run a marathon, but I could not jump onto a 12 inch box. I started incorporating strength training, stretching and agility drills into my workout routine and I am proud to say that I can now jump on a 12 inch box with ease and have increased my functional mobility in other areas as well. As I age, I want to continue to do the physical activities that I enjoy without pain, and I feel like a combination of all of these types of exercises (along with my regular cardio workouts) will enable me to do that.

Just because you did stretching, doesn't mean that is the reason why you can now jump on a box. That comes from training jumping more than previously.

If you want to get better at anything, you specifically train more of that task.

I hazard that strength training had more to do with your ability to jump better as data shows strength training is beneficial to dailly functions as well as physical tasks or sports, not extra stretching.

To jump farther or higher one must get stronger and be able to transfer that power from a contracted muscle. Stretching teaches a muscle to relax not contract.

No, stretching / mobility does allow one to improve their VJ or distance that needs to be trained. However, if one is too immobile to execute the jump correctly then it will diminish how high / far they jump and can affect how they land and landing badly is something that can result in an injury.

Again, everybody is going to have different levels of mobility. Some people don't need to do mobility work and others do. It's something that's on a case-by-case basis and to have a blanket statement that somebody does or does not need to do mobility work is just wrong. And even for those that need it, may not need as much of it on some days.

My point is practicing jumping would not only make you a better jumper, it would stretch adequately and efficiently no matter what mobility. Extra stetching will not improve the skill it takes to transfer force optimally.

Of course everybody is built different, has different levels of fitness that allows the stretch reflex needed it takes to be optimal. Practicing along with strength training makes the skill progress and gives plenty of stetching on its own.

That's like saying a pro basketball player needs to do yoga back bridges to practice slam dunking because it gives them more quad stretching. If they want to jump higher with more force, then they should strength train with specificity to their sport along with practice slam dunking. No amount of yoga poses is going to make them efficiently jumping higher than their skill coupled with strength training.

Example, I have a nasty progressive joint disease. Every morning I literally cannot hold a coffee cup or stand correctly because of swelling/pain. Yet less than a hour later I can deadlift 500 lbs standing correctly locked out. I do zero extra stetching to increase my mobilty of my frozen hands, hips, knees, or feet other than a progressive warmup weights for deadlifts to be able to hold the weight. Why can I do it? Because I practiced it over time. I needed zero extra stretching, zero.

Btw, one practices how to land correctly when they practice jumping. It more efficient than extra stretching because it's part of skill. If a novice jumper and a skilled jumper were to jump the same amount of attempts, I would hazard the novice would be likely hurt first from.landing incorrectly because the lack of practicing the skill of landing, not lack of extra stetches.

If you are tight and muscles are not moving correctly, how does performing a squat jump, for instance, loosen you up? It might for some, but definitely not everybody.

I don't know what to say, I'm not going to argue; you have your opinion and I have mine. I studied this extensively in school, had many case studies, and have worked with various people. All I can say is that in my education and personal experience, some people need mobility work. If you cannot do an exercise correctly then you are limiting yourself and possibly opening yourself to injury. You shouldn't base how you feel about mobility in-general on how you manage yourself.

ronocnikral wrote: »

Just to clarify, because I realize it may seem like I am talking out of both sides of my mouth. Not all stretching is bad, if it has a purpose and is needed for a specific activity, I can get behind it. But, we all don't need to be as flexible as a ballerina or a gymnast. When we increase our range of motion, we also become more injury prone in that area since muscles and ligaments arent as tight around the joints in that area. For instance, I have a bad shoulder that used to fall out when sleeping. Lots of pt never once did I stretch it, but I did lots of exercises to strengthen muscles around the joint and maintain range of motion. I dropped the throwing the ball exercises, and I haven't had my shoulder dislocate in 8 year or so. My crampons even blew last weekend and I can hold my entire body weight on my shoulder now. Touches wood. I'll probably never (strong word, I know) stretch that shoulder again.

The idea that stretching is needed before and after a workout just because, is the main way stretching is applied. And it is the most dangerous. And I believe it should be avoided. It's a training myth, like you need to feel a burn to have training gains.

Thanks for the clarification - I think we're probably more or less in agreement.