Seeking advice then arguing with the answer
Bedazzled35
Posts: 50 Member
I'm relatively new here (this time around I've lost 14 pounds since the new year) but have learned a lot from reading posts and replies from more knowledgeable members.
I do however get slightly frustrated when people post questions, usually around lack of weight loss, then get all angsty when the answers offer solid advice like "it's probably water weight", "check your recording", "buy a food scale" and "be patient".
I understand it, I'd like one of you to give me a magic bullet for overnight weightloss too but I know that is not realistic.
I guess I just wanted to say how much the indirect help I've received so far is appreciated.
I do however get slightly frustrated when people post questions, usually around lack of weight loss, then get all angsty when the answers offer solid advice like "it's probably water weight", "check your recording", "buy a food scale" and "be patient".
I understand it, I'd like one of you to give me a magic bullet for overnight weightloss too but I know that is not realistic.
I guess I just wanted to say how much the indirect help I've received so far is appreciated.
105
Replies
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Sometimes when the truth doesn't line up with our preconceived notions (whether or not we're aware we even have them) it's hard to hear. Not everyone handles this well. Some do come around, after pages and pages of discussion; some never do. It's just the nature of the forums. Nobody likes being told they're wrong.
Congrats on your success so far!26 -
There's a saying that "people who ask for advice already know the answer".13
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For some it's hard to swallow that fat loss is simple, but not easy12
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14pounds? Nicely done
4 -
Askhole:
"A person who constantly ask for your advice, yet always does the opposite of what you told them!"
OR
External Validation or "Fishing for compliments
"Asking questions for the intent to gather validation about their preconceived ideas rather than for objective feedback."38 -
Well said- I feel the same. Especially with coworkers.1
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Askhole...Love it!
Christine_72 wrote: »Askhole:
"A person who constantly ask for your advice, yet always does the opposite of what you told them!”6 -
In general, people don’t want to hear what they are not ready to accept. Sad truth and applies to way more than this site and weight loss.6
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I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.38 -
I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
It's very rare I've come across advice given in such a way that it's confrontational or accusational, culturally different sometimes yeah, I think more often it's people assuming there's a tone in a reply that there is not and is more to do with the reader than the writer. Not everyone is great at getting their point across in a straight-forward way but I don't think that means they have an attitude problem. Nor do I think any of the regular posters are here looking for praise, just trying to pass on the benefit of their own experiences.
In fact the only time I see it getting confrontational is when someone is a repeat poster is given great advice, ignores it and then comes back with the same question a few months later expecting different answers or when someone is trying to argue that magic pills and potions work.
23 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Askhole:
"A person who constantly ask for your advice, yet always does the opposite of what you told them!"
OR
External Validation or "Fishing for compliments
"Asking questions for the intent to gather validation about their preconceived ideas rather than for objective feedback."
Fantastic Christine!---you nailed it!3 -
If someone posts asking about diet advice for their under active thyroid a person can saytinkerbellang83 wrote: »I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
It's very rare I've come across advice given in such a way that it's confrontational or accusational, culturally different sometimes yeah, I think more often it's people assuming there's a tone in a reply that there is not and is more to do with the reader than the writer. Not everyone is great at getting their point across in a straight-forward way but I don't think that means they have an attitude problem. Nor do I think any of the regular posters are here looking for praise, just trying to pass on the benefit of their own experiences.
In fact the only time I see it getting confrontational is when someone is a repeat poster is given great advice, ignores it and then comes back with the same question a few months later expecting different answers or when someone is trying to argue that magic pills and potions work.
“Well actually science finds hypothyroidism’s effect on your TDEE to actually not be that significant so it may just be that you’re eating to much”
Or they can say
“Actually thyroid doesn’t affect metabolism that much so stop using that as an excuse when you’re clearly eating too much.”
The latter is clearly confrontational and nothing to do with tone - you’ve outright accused that person of looking for excuses.
That’s obviously an example I just created, but I don’t believe that all fault lies within how the person chooses to imply tone. There are many genuine threads with people who have, through no fault of their own, been misinformed about something to do with weightloss - and more often than not I witness people go into those threads and begin their posts with accusations and criticism instead of understanding and re-education. It frustrates me no end and I hate that people leave the forums feeling like they’ve been attacked for making steps towards bettering themselves.
It’s okay if you disagree, but from my experiences this is what I’ve noticed.
Edit: that is to say I’m not accusing everyone of this - and I’m not accusing ‘the regulars’ of looking for praise. I’m saying I’ve seen SOME do this. I acknowledge that the majority of the community are genuinely kind and helpful.18 -
I guess I just wanted to say how much the indirect help I've received so far is appreciated.
I've been helped indirectly too by this community.
I'm not sure I ever had to post a question of my own that wasn't already out there. I use the search feature and read many posts. So thanks to the people who keep answering and thanks to those who asked questions before.
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I started here two years ago and just want to second OP's original post to say thank you to all of the people on these forums who have helped me along the way and put up with my questions (especially the ones that have been on here a million times). Thank you Forum regulars! I'm a normal weight because of you.17
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Until I was ready to accept the responsibility for making choices that were making me fat, I wasn't ready to hear anyone tell me to accept the responsibility for making choices that were making me fat.
I "knew" I was doing everything right, but I was just destined to be a normal 50-something average weak tub of goo. And I was well on my way. Until a year or so ago, when I wasn't.11 -
I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
Seriously I think a lot of people project their own negative feelings into what is actually a benign comment.
It is impossible to read tone in post on a message board.
I would bet 99 times out of 100, the so-called hostility is perceived rather than actual.26 -
I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
^this right here is why I mostly don't give much advice anymore. I read the forums from my phone a lot so unless I have a handy copy/paste answer, why bother trying to be nuanced when I'm gonna be called a know-it-all either way.
From a quick count, about 50% of people who ask questions won't bother coming back to respond to questions asking for more detail. Of those who do come back, some will argue, some will announce they've discovered Fung or Shakeology or something, some work better with a softball approach, and others prefer a hardball approach. There's no way of knowing which poster is which until we're hip deep in a thread sometimes. I prefer to just throw information at 'em and let them sort it out instead of waiting to see if they're even going to be the type who comes back.23 -
I couldn’t have lost 96# without the solid advice of the great folks in these forums. But I agree, the questions can sometimes test your patience.7
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A lot of people don't like the answers. There's also an emotional part too about not being emotionally ready to do the work.
It's a bit ironic though, I've made some threads on these boards (mostly to vent really), and I got a lot of advice too, that I didn't necessarily ask for.... I'm sure I got people frustrated too because I turned down most of the advice... mostly things I tried and didn't work for me... although typically in my case it's really when I get frustrated that I end up venting on the boards, and I look for people who get it, not necessarily for advice...
So it kinda goes both way... empathy goes a long way. You don't know where people are mentally. Sometimes just acknowledging that it's a hard first step or something can be frustrating goes a long way.2 -
A lot of people don't like the answers. There's also an emotional part too about not being emotionally ready to do the work.
It's a bit ironic though, I've made some threads on these boards (mostly to vent really), and I got a lot of advice too, that I didn't necessarily ask for.... I'm sure I got people frustrated too because I turned down most of the advice... mostly things I tried and didn't work for me... although typically in my case it's really when I get frustrated that I end up venting on the boards, and I look for people who get it, not necessarily for advice...
So it kinda goes both way... empathy goes a long way. You don't know where people are mentally. Sometimes just acknowledging that it's a hard first step or something can be frustrating goes a long way.
I think most of us assume (mistakenly sometimes, I'm sure) that if someone starts a thread here, they are looking for advice unless they specifically say they are just venting. And the inclination is to offer advice when you see what appears to be an opportunity to help the OP.8 -
If someone posts asking about diet advice for their under active thyroid a person can saytinkerbellang83 wrote: »I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
It's very rare I've come across advice given in such a way that it's confrontational or accusational, culturally different sometimes yeah, I think more often it's people assuming there's a tone in a reply that there is not and is more to do with the reader than the writer. Not everyone is great at getting their point across in a straight-forward way but I don't think that means they have an attitude problem. Nor do I think any of the regular posters are here looking for praise, just trying to pass on the benefit of their own experiences.
In fact the only time I see it getting confrontational is when someone is a repeat poster is given great advice, ignores it and then comes back with the same question a few months later expecting different answers or when someone is trying to argue that magic pills and potions work.
“Well actually science finds hypothyroidism’s effect on your TDEE to actually not be that significant so it may just be that you’re eating to much”
Or they can say
“Actually thyroid doesn’t affect metabolism that much so stop using that as an excuse when you’re clearly eating too much.”
The latter is clearly confrontational and nothing to do with tone - you’ve outright accused that person of looking for excuses.
That’s obviously an example I just created, but I don’t believe that all fault lies within how the person chooses to imply tone. There are many genuine threads with people who have, through no fault of their own, been misinformed about something to do with weightloss - and more often than not I witness people go into those threads and begin their posts with accusations and criticism instead of understanding and re-education. It frustrates me no end and I hate that people leave the forums feeling like they’ve been attacked for making steps towards bettering themselves.
It’s okay if you disagree, but from my experiences this is what I’ve noticed.
Edit: that is to say I’m not accusing everyone of this - and I’m not accusing ‘the regulars’ of looking for praise. I’m saying I’ve seen SOME do this. I acknowledge that the majority of the community are genuinely kind and helpful.
Except that if someone is looking for validation/help making excuses instead of advice, they'll still claim that the second comment is an attack on their condition. EVEN when the person offering the advice has the same syndrome/condition.7 -
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Agreed. It can be very frustrating when they seriously will not acknowledge even part of the answer you give as possibly being accurate, or at the least ask more questions.2
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If someone posts asking about diet advice for their under active thyroid a person can saytinkerbellang83 wrote: »I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
It's very rare I've come across advice given in such a way that it's confrontational or accusational, culturally different sometimes yeah, I think more often it's people assuming there's a tone in a reply that there is not and is more to do with the reader than the writer. Not everyone is great at getting their point across in a straight-forward way but I don't think that means they have an attitude problem. Nor do I think any of the regular posters are here looking for praise, just trying to pass on the benefit of their own experiences.
In fact the only time I see it getting confrontational is when someone is a repeat poster is given great advice, ignores it and then comes back with the same question a few months later expecting different answers or when someone is trying to argue that magic pills and potions work.
“Well actually science finds hypothyroidism’s effect on your TDEE to actually not be that significant so it may just be that you’re eating to much”
Or they can say
“Actually thyroid doesn’t affect metabolism that much so stop using that as an excuse when you’re clearly eating too much.”
The latter is clearly confrontational and nothing to do with tone - you’ve outright accused that person of looking for excuses.
That’s obviously an example I just created, but I don’t believe that all fault lies within how the person chooses to imply tone. There are many genuine threads with people who have, through no fault of their own, been misinformed about something to do with weightloss - and more often than not I witness people go into those threads and begin their posts with accusations and criticism instead of understanding and re-education. It frustrates me no end and I hate that people leave the forums feeling like they’ve been attacked for making steps towards bettering themselves.
It’s okay if you disagree, but from my experiences this is what I’ve noticed.
Edit: that is to say I’m not accusing everyone of this - and I’m not accusing ‘the regulars’ of looking for praise. I’m saying I’ve seen SOME do this. I acknowledge that the majority of the community are genuinely kind and helpful.
So if it's rare why even bring it up?8 -
^^^^ Yep. So much knowledge here, and I am continually learning, even after 100lbs lost (weighing beans, eating sweet potato skin). More annoyed by the spreading of woo than "dumb" questions. I think many people are often posting in earnest why they think they are eating 1200 calories and not losing weight. There's enough incorrect information in the world and in the MFP database to lead a person to believing that if they had never before step foot into the forums.4 -
Ay, it’s okay if you disagree with me but you don’t need to pick apart semantics just to prove me wrong. I didn’t say it was rare, I said it wasn’t the majority.VintageFeline wrote: »
If someone posts asking about diet advice for their under active thyroid a person can saytinkerbellang83 wrote: »I agree that some people are like that but I don’t think that the blame always lies with the asker. There are a lot of people here who are notoriously *kitten* at knowing how to give advice. The things they’re saying might be true but their attitudes are confrontational and accusational - meaning that most people don’t really hear the advice, they just get immediately defensive and start arguing back because you’ve just insulted them. It’s those people with a know-it-all kind of attitude to giving advice that really struggle to understand that if you want people to take your advice you need to tailor the way you give it to each individual, instead of just spewing the same stuff to different people and expecting them all to react with overwhelming praise for you and your genius.
Tdlr: it doesn’t matter if your facts are correct, if your attitude sucks no one cares what you have to say.
It's very rare I've come across advice given in such a way that it's confrontational or accusational, culturally different sometimes yeah, I think more often it's people assuming there's a tone in a reply that there is not and is more to do with the reader than the writer. Not everyone is great at getting their point across in a straight-forward way but I don't think that means they have an attitude problem. Nor do I think any of the regular posters are here looking for praise, just trying to pass on the benefit of their own experiences.
In fact the only time I see it getting confrontational is when someone is a repeat poster is given great advice, ignores it and then comes back with the same question a few months later expecting different answers or when someone is trying to argue that magic pills and potions work.
“Well actually science finds hypothyroidism’s effect on your TDEE to actually not be that significant so it may just be that you’re eating to much”
Or they can say
“Actually thyroid doesn’t affect metabolism that much so stop using that as an excuse when you’re clearly eating too much.”
The latter is clearly confrontational and nothing to do with tone - you’ve outright accused that person of looking for excuses.
That’s obviously an example I just created, but I don’t believe that all fault lies within how the person chooses to imply tone. There are many genuine threads with people who have, through no fault of their own, been misinformed about something to do with weightloss - and more often than not I witness people go into those threads and begin their posts with accusations and criticism instead of understanding and re-education. It frustrates me no end and I hate that people leave the forums feeling like they’ve been attacked for making steps towards bettering themselves.
It’s okay if you disagree, but from my experiences this is what I’ve noticed.
Edit: that is to say I’m not accusing everyone of this - and I’m not accusing ‘the regulars’ of looking for praise. I’m saying I’ve seen SOME do this. I acknowledge that the majority of the community are genuinely kind and helpful.
So if it's rare why even bring it up?
That said, I’m pleased that you yourself seem to have had a positive experience with the forums here and I hope that you can spread that to others. 3 -
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