[science] if... someone would eat in a deficit and store calories as fat
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You're arguing with someone with a scientific background that energy balance either doesn't exist or can be over-ridden?
What the hell kind of science is their background in???
Yeah, if it means to look at oneself then energy balance doesn't exist anymore *sigh*
But it's an interesting question I think. If such a person existed then I doubt it would survive for long, or possibly already die before birth.0 -
There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.11 -
Your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the number of calories you’d burn if you stayed in bed all day. Please note that you must never eat below your BMR calories every day otherwise you can send your body into starvation mode.
Once you are in starvation mode, you body holds on to everything it can and your BMR will slow down.
"Starvation mode" is a myth. A certain degree of metabolic adaptation is possible, but not to the extent that it will completely stop weight loss.
OP, here is some reading for you to start with:
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/starvation-mode/4 -
@yirara such people, who have extremely low BMR, have a genetic feature that makes them maintain their weight on 800 or so calories per day. They are very rare and none of the people posting nonsense on mfp are in that very rare subset of humans. I don't recall the name of the condition, but I do recall watching a BBC show linked to this site about a British child suffering such.1
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There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.
It's not as simple as that. For hormone healthy people it's that simple but ask anyone who has thyroid issues or insulin/leptin resistance about how they are never able to lose weight regardless of even silly 1000 calorie diets coupled with intense HIT. Some people, to no fault of their own, are not able to process glucose and thyroid hormones properly, may have a free t3/reverse t3 issue and never know it.
At that point it is absolutely not about Calories.26 -
collectingblues wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Water weight for like a few days, not on a sensible timescale.
You'd be surprised at how long water weight can stick around.
It can stick around, but it doesn't just keep piling on.4 -
There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.
It's not as simple as that. For hormone healthy people it's that simple but ask anyone who has thyroid issues or insulin/leptin resistance about how they are never able to lose weight regardless of even silly 1000 calorie diets coupled with intense HIT. Some people, to no fault of their own, are not able to process glucose and thyroid hormones properly, may have a free t3/reverse t3 issue and never know it.
At that point it is absolutely not about Calories.
IF that were the case, they would lose weight faster not slower9 -
stanmann571 wrote: »There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.
It's not as simple as that. For hormone healthy people it's that simple but ask anyone who has thyroid issues or insulin/leptin resistance about how they are never able to lose weight regardless of even silly 1000 calorie diets coupled with intense HIT. Some people, to no fault of their own, are not able to process glucose and thyroid hormones properly, may have a free t3/reverse t3 issue and never know it.
At that point it is absolutely not about Calories.
IF that were the case, they would lose weight faster not slower
Exactly. Malabsorption causes weight loss (unless you eat more calories of things your body does absorb to compensate). If you don't process or absorb something it just um exits
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stevencloser wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
Water weight for like a few days, not on a sensible timescale.
You'd be surprised at how long water weight can stick around.
It can stick around, but it doesn't just keep piling on.
You've never had uncontrolled hypothyroid, have you? Or any other myriad conditions/situations that cause one water weight jump right after another.6 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »@yirara such people, who have extremely low BMR, have a genetic feature that makes them maintain their weight on 800 or so calories per day. They are very rare and none of the people posting nonsense on mfp are in that very rare subset of humans. I don't recall the name of the condition, but I do recall watching a BBC show linked to this site about a British child suffering such.
Just to be clear (not arguing your point) - those people still fall under the energy balance umbrella... the CI side of their specific equation may be different, but the concept still holds.5 -
I wonder if patients who have glycogen storage disease constantly gain weight. This is the disease that prevents glycogen from being released... the storage just builds and builds and builds. Their livers can become massive.
Since we know water weight increases with glycogen storage, would such patients not end up permanently storing significant amounts of water? In such a case, even when eating at a calorie deficit, they would likely gain weight just because of how their bodies manage energy.2 -
There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.
It's not as simple as that. For hormone healthy people it's that simple but ask anyone who has thyroid issues or insulin/leptin resistance about how they are never able to lose weight regardless of even silly 1000 calorie diets coupled with intense HIT. Some people, to no fault of their own, are not able to process glucose and thyroid hormones properly, may have a free t3/reverse t3 issue and never know it.
At that point it is absolutely not about Calories.
Hormone issues can affect how many calories your body uses, it doesn't change the fact that you won't store fat if you are in a calorie deficit. It just means your calorie needs are lower than someone with similar stats. And in controlled and monitored situations, the difference is much less than many people assume.
People who think they are eating 1000 calories and not losing weight are typically not logging accurately and are eating more calories than they think.
If you have scientific sources that show otherwise, please feel free to provide them :drinker:9 -
You're arguing with someone with a scientific background that energy balance either doesn't exist or can be over-ridden?
What the hell kind of science is their background in???
Yeah, if it means to look at oneself then energy balance doesn't exist anymore *sigh*
But it's an interesting question I think. If such a person existed then I doubt it would survive for long, or possibly already die before birth.
It sounds like your friend heard hoof-beats and immediately thought not horses or even zebras, but unicorns.10 -
There is so much more to it than simply calories in and out. A lot of people like to preach and swear by that here, but that's because it worked for them and they might not have any homore imbalances like Leptin Resistence, Insulin Resistance, or a myriad of other issues that could be causing weight gain or keeping you from losing weight.
If someone says it is nothing more than calories in vs calories out then mark them down as someone to ignore.
Anyone who has ever lost weight has done so by consuming fewer calories than their body burns.
It's not as simple as that. For hormone healthy people it's that simple but ask anyone who has thyroid issues or insulin/leptin resistance about how they are never able to lose weight regardless of even silly 1000 calorie diets coupled with intense HIT. Some people, to no fault of their own, are not able to process glucose and thyroid hormones properly, may have a free t3/reverse t3 issue and never know it.
At that point it is absolutely not about Calories.
Is it not about calories for weight loss? Or is it not about calories for health?2 -
I don't disagree with you in general, but in regards to what the original poster shared that yes it is entirely possible and simply eating LESS is not how she should go about losing weight, but rather address the issues that may be underlying.
I'm looking at this from someone who is a thyroid cancer survivor, so the information I'm referring to is generally related to hypothyroidism. If you want to do some (a lot) of reading then start here:
https://www.restartmed.com/hypothyroidism/
Of course you don't have to read it all to know that the body is a complicated process and simply advocating "LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! " isn't the best approach for everyone.13 -
Question says it all. Say a fairly tall, active woman would eat 1200 kcal in a day, work out a lot and gain weight (yes, I know.. it's not possible), what would theoretically happen? I'd think she'd be permanently hungry as you cannot double-dip energy, have all the signs of undernourishment. Anything else considering metabolism is so much more than just food digestion, energy utilization and storage?
Does such disease exist, and if so, for how long could someone survive?
I'd guess this person would have to have a medical condition that caused a dramatically low BMR. Or perhaps there is some kind of biologic malfunction where the body is prioritizing fat storage as opposed to basic bodily necessities. I have no idea if such a condition exists or what kind of medical specialist would be aware of it. I wouldn't think this sort of person would be capable of measurable exercise or would seem healthy regardless. I do kind of feel like we're supposing about what would happen if a unicorn did an ACV cleanse and then was abducted by aliens though :huh:5 -
Question says it all. Say a fairly tall, active woman would eat 1200 kcal in a day, work out a lot and gain weight (yes, I know.. it's not possible), what would theoretically happen? I'd think she'd be permanently hungry as you cannot double-dip energy, have all the signs of undernourishment. Anything else considering metabolism is so much more than just food digestion, energy utilization and storage?
Does such disease exist, and if so, for how long could someone survive?
I'd guess this person would have to have a medical condition that caused a dramatically low BMR. Or perhaps there is some kind of biologic malfunction where the body is prioritizing fat storage as opposed to basic bodily necessities. I have no idea if such a condition exists or what kind of medical specialist would be aware of it. I wouldn't think this sort of person would be capable of measurable exercise or would seem healthy regardless. I do kind of feel like we're supposing about what would happen if a unicorn did an ACV cleanse and then was abducted by aliens though :huh:
That was my thought as well. We see people in the forums ask about how they can turn fat into muscle... the body would have to essentially do the opposite - break down muscle for energy while storing fat. The deficit would have to be pretty small, and there would have to be some sort of genetic/biological abnormality. Even assuming magical unicorn scenarios with magical unicorn circumstances, I can't see this leading to anything but death at a pretty young age.3 -
I don't disagree with you in general, but in regards to what the original poster shared that yes it is entirely possible and simply eating LESS is not how she should go about losing weight, but rather address the issues that may be underlying.
I'm looking at this from someone who is a thyroid cancer survivor, so the information I'm referring to is generally related to hypothyroidism. If you want to do some (a lot) of reading then start here:
https://www.restartmed.com/hypothyroidism/
Of course you don't have to read it all to know that the body is a complicated process and simply advocating "LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! LOWER CALORIES! " isn't the best approach for everyone.
The link goes to the blog of a former Internist who now sells coaching, supplements, and books about hormone imbalances, which he does not seem to have any certs in.
Obviously, if someone has a medical condition causing a low BMR, they should get that medical condition treated. No one is saying otherwise. That doesn't change the fact that in order to lose weight, one needs to eat less calories than your body burns. It does mean that it might be incredibly difficult or even impossible for you to lose the weight until the medical condition is treated because you can't eat that little. Having said that, there are many regular posters here who have diagnosed hormone conditions and eat about the same amount of calories to lose weight as a healthy person of there size.8 -
Starvation mode doesn't exist. And you CAN eat below your BMR if you're extremely overweight or obese. A person with a BMR over 2000 is likely very overweight or obese. Eating under that BMR won't cause them to "starve".Having too much of a calorie deficit will hurt you. To figure out your BMR
Males
BMR = 66 + (13.75 x weight in kg) + (5 x height in cm) – (6.8 x age in yrs)
Females
BMR = 655 + (9.6 x weight in kg) + (1.8 x height in cm) – (4.7 x age in Yrs)
To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:
If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.1
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.275
If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.35
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.525
Your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the number of calories you’d burn if you stayed in bed all day. Please note that you must never eat below your BMR calories every day otherwise you can send your body into starvation mode.
Once you are in starvation mode, you body holds on to everything it can and your BMR will slow down.
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No, because gaining muscle on an extreme calorie deficit is basically impossible.frantimmon1021 wrote: »Could the working out a lot be muscle weight?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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