Ketogains

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Replies

  • russelljam08
    russelljam08 Posts: 167 Member
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    At this point, I'm going to agree to disagree. I apologize @piascore if I caused the deviation in the topic you intended this thread to have. I only meant to suggest trying out BCAAs and checking out Dr. Berg's video as both have benefited me in gaining muscle while on keto. I hope that my posts here were, at the very least, helpful in some way to you! :)

    LOL Dr. Berg is a fraking Chiropractor and a reported scam artist. No wonder your *info is so misinformed
  • russelljam08
    russelljam08 Posts: 167 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Insulin is pretty important to muscle growth...just sayin'
    Yup, which is why pro bodybuilders who do keto to 'cut' have to up the doses of certain drugs to retain the muscle they built in the offseason.............muscle they built eating huge amounts of carbs
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    russelljam08 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Insulin is pretty important to muscle growth...just sayin'
    Yup, which is why pro bodybuilders who do keto to 'cut' have to up the doses of certain drugs to retain the muscle they built in the offseason.............muscle they built eating huge amounts of carbs

    Which is an important and often overlooked aspect of the discussion. When you're taking the kind of drug stacks many bodybuilders do, you'll get results on any diet.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    russelljam08 wrote: »
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    At this point, I'm going to agree to disagree. I apologize @piascore if I caused the deviation in the topic you intended this thread to have. I only meant to suggest trying out BCAAs and checking out Dr. Berg's video as both have benefited me in gaining muscle while on keto. I hope that my posts here were, at the very least, helpful in some way to you! :)

    LOL Dr. Berg is a fraking Chiropractor and a reported scam artist. No wonder your *info is so misinformed

    Exactly! One of my points and reasons why keto would be suboptimal. Short of a health condition improved by keto, which would be the no. 1 priotity, I can't imagine a scenario where someone would want to gain muscle but do it in a less than optimal way. But hey, I'm sure there's someone out there......
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited February 2018
    russelljam08 wrote: »
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    At this point, I'm going to agree to disagree. I apologize @piascore if I caused the deviation in the topic you intended this thread to have. I only meant to suggest trying out BCAAs and checking out Dr. Berg's video as both have benefited me in gaining muscle while on keto. I hope that my posts here were, at the very least, helpful in some way to you! :)

    LOL Dr. Berg is a fraking Chiropractor and a reported scam artist. No wonder your *info is so misinformed

    Taking nutrition info from a chiropractor is about like trusting a podiatrist to do your vasectomy.

    But True Believers gonna believe.....
  • Keto_Vampire
    Keto_Vampire Posts: 1,670 Member
    Nothing wrong with this variation of keto; this is commonly used by bodybuilders during prep/cut phases. However, this type of diet is sustainable with the right macro set up.

    Too much soak everything in fat from the keto purists...this is a more targeted way of tracking kcals (because they do matter despite what some people believe).
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    russelljam08 wrote: »
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    At this point, I'm going to agree to disagree. I apologize @piascore if I caused the deviation in the topic you intended this thread to have. I only meant to suggest trying out BCAAs and checking out Dr. Berg's video as both have benefited me in gaining muscle while on keto. I hope that my posts here were, at the very least, helpful in some way to you! :)

    LOL Dr. Berg is a fraking chiropractics and a reported scam artist. No wonder your *info is so misinformed

    You do realize that chiropractics can have a specialization or a practice in nutrition, right?

    Lol, keep digging that credibility hole.
  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    russelljam08 wrote: »
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    At this point, I'm going to agree to disagree. I apologize @piascore if I caused the deviation in the topic you intended this thread to have. I only meant to suggest trying out BCAAs and checking out Dr. Berg's video as both have benefited me in gaining muscle while on keto. I hope that my posts here were, at the very least, helpful in some way to you! :)

    LOL Dr. Berg is a fraking chiropractics and a reported scam artist. No wonder your *info is so misinformed

    You do realize that chiropractics can have a specialization or a practice in nutrition, right?

    Lol, keep digging that credibility hole.

    At least there’s credibility to begin with! ;)

    Not so much......
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    Is this the same "Dr" Berg who believes in these methods?

    i. The Body Restoration Technique ("BRT"), a procedure whereby vials of distilled water containing homeopathic imprints are held over certain designated body organs or parts while the practitioner applies tactile pressure through tapping or rubbing acupressure points, allegedly to assist in restoring hormone balance and to address other symptoms;

    ii. Nambudripad's Allergy Elimination Technique ("NAET"), a technique that uses pressure points in certain locations of the body allegedly to improve food allergies and environmental and chemical sensitivities;

    iii. Contact Reflex Analysis ("CRA"), an alleged nutritional analysis that relies on muscle testing and acupuncture points; and

    iv. Acoustic Cardiograph (" ACG"), an alleged nutritional evaluation based on heart sounds recorded and visualized on a graph.

    His Medical Board didn't seem too impressed with him.....
    https://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/berg.shtml

    He's not even putting the infinitely diluted water into someone's body, he's just holding it in the person's general direction? Now that's a new level of homeopathy bull.
  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited February 2018
    I've seen it all....you know society is going to hell when you hear people claiming keto and BCAA's work for optimal muscle building :D Please tell us why athletes like Michael Phelps eat a *kitten* ton of carbs??? Why do athletes for the majority avoid ketogenic diets??? As for BCAA's, they are so useless, but you have to give credit to supplement companies and phony doctors in brainwashing many people into thinking how usefull they are. They make so much profits over something that at worse can make you lose more muscles (and yes that has been documented - see Alan Aragon's research on that).
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    fb47 wrote: »
    I've seen it all....you know society is going to hell when you hear people claiming keto and BCAA's work for optimal muscle building :D Please tell us why athletes like Michael Phelps eat a *kitten* ton of carbs??? Why do athletes for the majority avoid ketogenic diets??? As for BCAA's, they are so useless, but you have to give credit to supplement companies and phony doctors in brainwashing many people into thinking how usefull they are. They make so much profits over something that at worse can make you lose more muscles (and yes that has been documented - see Alan Aragon's research on that).
    For the first bolded statement above, I just can't imagine, short of health condition improved by keto, one would attempt this. Gaining muscle on keto is doing it the hard way!

    The second bolded is what Anvil was getting at up thread regarding MPS. The studies and article I posted were from Alan.
  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited February 2018
    mmapags wrote: »
    fb47 wrote: »
    I've seen it all....you know society is going to hell when you hear people claiming keto and BCAA's work for optimal muscle building :D Please tell us why athletes like Michael Phelps eat a *kitten* ton of carbs??? Why do athletes for the majority avoid ketogenic diets??? As for BCAA's, they are so useless, but you have to give credit to supplement companies and phony doctors in brainwashing many people into thinking how usefull they are. They make so much profits over something that at worse can make you lose more muscles (and yes that has been documented - see Alan Aragon's research on that).
    For the first bolded statement above, I just can't imagine, short of health condition improved by keto, one would attempt this. Gaining muscle on keto is doing it the hard way!

    The second bolded is what Anvil was getting at up thread regarding MPS. The studies and article I posted were from Alan.

    Keto is horrible for building muscles on a caloric surplus and horrible to maintain muscles on a fat loss diet. Study after study shows it and it mind boggles me that people still defend keto in that area. Carbs, although not necessary for survival is what makes a person thrive at the gym. It gives you that energy needed to go through a grinding workout. Outside of that, I could understand one going keto if they have health issues, they lack discipline because of carbs or they just enjoy a high fat diet. Keto does have benefits for someone who doesn't train and only wants to lose weight, but for people who do train, study after study show that keto is the diet with the poorest result when it comes to the otimization of building muscles. I am not saying you can't build muscles with keto, all I am saying is that you won't maximize your gains with it.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    piascore wrote: »
    Hello! Can I ask if anyone here does Ketogains? High protein, moderate fats and low carb whilst lifting (which I love to do).

    I don't do keto, and never will, but there are things to consider if you are going to be in a surplus to gain muscle. First, and most importantly, you need a solid progressive overload lifting program.

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you#latest

    Second, I'd recommend looking into timing your carbs around your workouts and consider carb refeeds like they do as part of CKD.

    Third, I hope you are starting fairly lean (~ 20% for a female). Muscle gains favor the lean due to the association to being more insulin sensitive.

    Regarding the science, I think the current evidence we have would suggest that it is inferior for overall strength and muscle gains (see here on the lastest meta-analyses) but within that, there is a ton of individual variability.

    Regarding BCAAs, the latest meta-analyses do not support the benefits of BCAAs. Even if they stimulate MPS, it doesn't support increase protein turnover (creating more cells than destroying). So it's the equivalent of having a match without any wood.
  • TyTravis007
    TyTravis007 Posts: 77 Member
    edited February 2018
    psuLemon wrote: »
    piascore wrote: »
    Hello! Can I ask if anyone here does Ketogains? High protein, moderate fats and low carb whilst lifting (which I love to do).

    I don't do keto, and never will, but there are things to consider if you are going to be in a surplus to gain muscle. First, and most importantly, you need a solid progressive overload lifting program.

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you#latest

    Second, I'd recommend looking into timing your carbs around your workouts and consider carb refeeds like they do as part of CKD.

    Third, I hope you are starting fairly lean (~ 20% for a female). Muscle gains favor the lean due to the association to being more insulin sensitive.

    Regarding the science, I think the current evidence we have would suggest that it is inferior for overall strength and muscle gains (see here on the lastest meta-analyses) but within that, there is a ton of individual variability.

    Regarding BCAAs, the latest meta-analyses do not support the benefits of BCAAs. Even if they stimulate MPS, it doesn't support increase protein turnover (creating more cells than destroying). So it's the equivalent of having a match without any wood.

    In regards to your "meta-analysis," where on earth is that picture from? I did a google-images search and can't find it on any reliable sources.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    TyTravis007 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    piascore wrote: »
    Hello! Can I ask if anyone here does Ketogains? High protein, moderate fats and low carb whilst lifting (which I love to do).

    I don't do keto, and never will, but there are things to consider if you are going to be in a surplus to gain muscle. First, and most importantly, you need a solid progressive overload lifting program.

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you#latest

    Second, I'd recommend looking into timing your carbs around your workouts and consider carb refeeds like they do as part of CKD.

    Third, I hope you are starting fairly lean (~ 20% for a female). Muscle gains favor the lean due to the association to being more insulin sensitive.

    Regarding the science, I think the current evidence we have would suggest that it is inferior for overall strength and muscle gains (see here on the lastest meta-analyses) but within that, there is a ton of individual variability.

    Regarding BCAAs, the latest meta-analyses do not support the benefits of BCAAs. Even if they stimulate MPS, it doesn't support increase protein turnover (creating more cells than destroying). So it's the equivalent of having a match without any wood.

    In regards to your "meta-analysis," where on earth is that picture from? I did a google-images search and can't find it on any reliable sources.

    http://sci-fit.net/2017/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
  • anthonynaylor
    anthonynaylor Posts: 29 Member
    Sorry for being lazy and not reading the thread, but:

    I haven't heard of ketogains, but you don't really need more than 0.8-1.2g of protein per pound of lean body mass to gain. So I don't know why you'd need protein to be higher than fat for energy.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    edited February 2018
    anthonynaylor wrote: »
    Sorry for being lazy and not reading the thread, but:

    I haven't heard of ketogains, but you don't really need more than 0.8-1.2g of protein per pound of lean body mass to gain. So I don't know why you'd need protein to be higher than fat for energy.

    I don't think anyone said that you would. It does help to actually read the thread before responding.
  • anthonynaylor
    anthonynaylor Posts: 29 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    anthonynaylor wrote: »
    Sorry for being lazy and not reading the thread, but:

    I haven't heard of ketogains, but you don't really need more than 0.8-1.2g of protein per pound of lean body mass to gain. So I don't know why you'd need protein to be higher than fat for energy.

    I don't think anyone said that you would. It does help to actually read the thread before responding.

    Besides the OP...
    piascore wrote: »
    Hello! Can I ask if anyone here does Ketogains? High protein, moderate fats and low carb whilst lifting (which I love to do).

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