Pre work outs

Whys that then stan? Seems like it’s working to me... so what you on about?

I only have something "pre workout" so that I can do my workout to my full strength potential. There is no magic pill or powder that will help pre workout for fat loss.
I have coffee and a small snack so I have enough energy to really work to my potential during my workout, thats it. No expensive powders or supplements, nothing fake. Only REAL food goes into this temple!

Kalex1975 wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

Interestingly enough, BA and Citrulline are both adequately dosed. Creatine is a bit underdosed, but if you want creatine, then it should be 5g and its own daily supplement. And thr BCAAs seemed to be dosed correctly although, there isnt a benefit to them since MPS and protein turnover need all 12 amino acids.

So compare price to see if you are paying for stuff that should be supplemented separately or dont need (i.e., BCAAs)

Thanks, good advice!

I read carefully all the stuff on examine.com so was looking for a pre-workout with beta-alanine, citrulline, and caffeine. It wasn't able to find a pre-workout with only those 3 ingredients so it makes sense to see if it is cheaper to supplement the BA and citrulline separately. (I may just end up getting it for convenience.)

It will almost always be cheaper to supplement what you want individually and separately.

Kalex1975 wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

Kalex1975 wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

Interestingly enough, BA and Citrulline are both adequately dosed. Creatine is a bit underdosed, but if you want creatine, then it should be 5g and its own daily supplement. And thr BCAAs seemed to be dosed correctly although, there isnt a benefit to them since MPS and protein turnover need all 12 amino acids.

So compare price to see if you are paying for stuff that should be supplemented separately or dont need (i.e., BCAAs)

Thanks, good advice!

I read carefully all the stuff on examine.com so was looking for a pre-workout with beta-alanine, citrulline, and caffeine. It wasn't able to find a pre-workout with only those 3 ingredients so it makes sense to see if it is cheaper to supplement the BA and citrulline separately. (I may just end up getting it for convenience.)

It will almost always be cheaper to supplement what you want individually and separately.

I guess I need to decide if the extra money is worth the flavoring and convenience... appreciate your help.

Look at Legion Pulse or JYM as a back up..

stanmann571 wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

vmlabute wrote: »

I don't take pre-workouts. Just Amino energy

You'd be much better off with a solid pre workout. BCAAs are pretty worthless.

Indeed, although as a caffeinated flavor base for a DIY preworkout, Amino energy is inexpensive.

At 160mg and nothing but a propriotary blend of other ingredients (which wont be much since its limited to 5g), id stand by my statement. It looks like its underdosed in terms of caffeine and all other ingredients.

psuLemon wrote: »

broseidonkingofbrocean wrote: »

I didn't read the replies but im sure there's atleast one of the "WASTE OF MONEY JUST DRINK COFFEE" so before anything if you are on a budget, yea go coffee. If you have the extra money to spend on something like supplements, go for it.

It isn't some weight loss wizardry but I would treat it like an energy drink. What I would do is avoid proprietary blends since its a way for companies to dust in ingredients and state that it contains "x ingredient." For example cellucore pre workout, which has a stupid low amount of creatine but since creatine looks good on the label(teacrine been another one lately)... Getting back to ingredient listings, I would do research on each ingredient examine.com is a great place to find the actual studies/results and the clinical dosing on each ingredient.

As for what I would recommend? I would say do what I said above and just try different ones out. See which one you like the most. If you have a membership to gnc or something ask them if they have any pre workout samples. I personally prefer MTS ruckus just cause the ingredient listing and those ingredients being at clinical dosing. To top it off they use quality ingredients and if you know anything about supplement ingredients... some of those ingredients are quite expensive. Also I like MTS due to their transparency which most supplement companies don't do.

While i don't doubt MTS could be a good company, I personally struggle to understand why they haven't used more the proven supplements (i.e., Citrulline Malate) in there pre workout but rather component a only demonstrated as beneficial by the designer.

For example, outside a crap ton of caffeine, their main ingredient is Trimethylglycine (TMG). While it appears there are some cardio protrective qualitiea the performance aspects are unreliable. To discuss, below is an excerpt from examine.com:


"Finally, betaine has been recommended as a performance enhancing compound, although with quite unreliable results. When taken at 1.25g twice daily, betaine has at times been linked to increased power output (only to fail in other instances) and minor increases in workout volume and endurance (a bit more reliable than power output, but still not a consensus). The overall effect size or how much betaine benefits the subject seem to be quite small, and at this moment in time all studies finding benefit with betaine supplementation have been associated with Danisco (DuPont Nutrition) a producer of betaine."

https://examine.com/supplements/trimethylglycine/

The evidence in Taurine is minimal at best. It has been demonstrated to increase bloodflow in type 1 diabetics to a point of normalizing it tona control group.


L- Tyrosine

This is a very theortical compound which doesn't seem to much promise according to examine.com but they do caution the use as it can have adverse interactions with some medicines.


IMO, not that you are asking, there are much higher quality preworkout drinks on the market than MTS, which actually have ingredients that are tested and proven, like Legion products or maybe JYM.

Ruckus is just my preferred pre workout through trial and error. I like the combination of N-Methyl L-Tyramine HCI, infinergy dicaffeine malate, caffiene anhydrous, and theobromine. While it has a lot of caffeine it doesn't hit you like a ton of bricks as other concentrated pre-workouts do. It ramps up and gives you sustained energy.

It isn't in the same category as jym or legion, its a concentrated pre workout. With its price point being 24.99 should tell you. Jym and legion are both complete pre workouts and MTS also makes a complete pre workout. MTS clash being that pre workout. I also keep certain raw ingredient on hand for days I don't use stims. So for me I don't have the need to buy a complete pre workout.

The studies on some of these ingredients tho:

Fernstrom JD, Fernstrom MH. Tyrosine, phenylalanine, and catecholamine synthesis and function in the brain. J Nutr. 2007;137(6 Suppl 1):1539S-1547S; discussion 1548S.

Deijen JB, Wientjes CJ, Vullinghs HF, Cloin PA, Langefeld JJ. Tyrosine improves cognitive performance and reduces blood pressure in cadets after one week of a combat training course. Brain Res Bull. 1999;48(2):203-209.

Kukovetz WR, Holzmann S, Romanin C. Mechanism of vasodilation by nitrates: role of cyclic GMP. Cardiology. 1987;74 Suppl 1:12-19.

Cosby K, Partovi KS, Crawford JH, et al. Nitrite reduction to nitric oxide by deoxyhemoglobin vasodilates the human circulation. Nat Med. 2003;9(12):1498-1505. doi:10.1038/nm954.

Coles LT, Clifton PM. Effect of beetroot juice on lowering blood pressure in free-living, disease-free adults: a randomized, placebo-controlled trial. Nutrition Journal. 2012;11:106. doi:10.1186/1475-2891-11-106.

Larsen FJ, Weitzberg E, Lundberg JO, Ekblom B. Effects of dietary nitrate on oxygen cost during exercise. Acta Physiol (Oxf). 2007;191(1):59-66. doi:10.1111/j.1748-1716.2007.01713.x

Lansley KE, Winyard PG, Fulford J, et al. Dietary nitrate supplementation reduces the O2 cost of walking and running: a placebo-controlled study. J Appl Physiol. 2011;110(3):591-600. doi:10.1152/japplphysiol.01070.2010.

Pasantes-Morales H, Quesada O, Morán J. Taurine: An Osmolyte in Mammalian Tissues. In: Shaffer S, Lombardini JB, Huxtable RJ, eds. Taurine 3: Cellular and Regulatory Mechanisms. Boston, MA: Springer US; 1998:209-217. doi:10.1007/978-1-4899-0117-0_27.

Warburton DM, Bersellini E, Sweeney E. An evaluation of a caffeinated taurine drink on mood, memory and information processing in healthy volunteers without caffeine abstinence. Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2001;158(3):322-328. doi:10.1007/s002130100884.

da Silva LA, Tromm CB, Bom KF, et al. Effects of taurine supplementation following eccentric exercise in young adults. Appl Physiol Nutr Metab = Physiol Appl Nutr Metab. 2014;39(1):101-104. doi:10.1139/apnm-2012-0229.

Reyes T, Shu C, Argumedo R, Nemzer B, Pietrzkowski Z. The Effect of ElevATP on Whole Blood ATP Levels: A Single Dose, Cross over Clinical Study. Vol 1.; 2014.

Joy JM, Vogel RM, Moon JR, et al. Ancient peat and apple extracts supplementation may improve strength and power adaptations in resistance trained men. BMC Complement Altern Med. 2016;16(1):224. doi:10.1186/s12906-016-1222-x

McGovern T, McDevitt E, Wright IS. THEOBROMINE SODIUM SALICYLATE AS A VASODILATOR . Journal of Clinical Investigation. 1936;15(1):11-16.

Evans CS, Bell EA, Johnson ES. N-methyltyramine, a biologically active amine in Acacia seeds. Phytochemistry. 1979;18(12):2022-2023. doi:https://doi.org/10.1016/S0031-9422(00)82727-2.

Lean59man wrote: »

You folks realize there is little to zero quality control in these supplements you are taking.

No FDA approval. Zip.

Taking something that makes my heart race and makes me sweat doesn't sound like a good idea. It sounds like a good way to give myself a heart attack or stroke.

There are independent lab test for many of these. And we get it by now, supplements scare you.

Nutrabio makes a decent PWO. Little low on creatine but they intend for you to stack it with their other products. They fully disclose everything, made in FDA approved facility, and have third party testing. Down side is expensive and they intend for you to stack with their other products. Oh and would say has some stuff that the science is not conclusive yet.

Lean59man wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

Lean59man wrote: »

You folks realize there is little to zero quality control in these supplements you are taking.

No FDA approval. Zip.

Taking something that makes my heart race and makes me sweat doesn't sound like a good idea. It sounds like a good way to give myself a heart attack or stroke.

There are independent lab test for many of these. And we get it by now, supplements scare you.

They don't scare me but I hate to see people waste money on this junk.

But I get it that I am becoming obnoxious about it.

That is why you go with brands that are known and independently tested for quality. Because there are benefits to several supplements that can improve training, improve recovery and increase volume which can drive greater strength gains and more muscle.

98% of pwo are full of non useful ingredients with a bunch of caffeine in it...... but I will say the most useful ones would be altius, jym, and pulse (btw I do love my preworkouts)