Has anyone had any experience gaining muscle on a Keto diet?
SCP0914
Posts: 74 Member
I've been trying to research it, but there seems to be some conflicting views on it. Any experience with it? Opinions?
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Replies
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It's possible but not optimal. It's especially harder for women who tend to gain less muscle than men. It's all that much harder if your surplus isn't large. If gaining muscle is your main goal, I would stay away from keto for now.6
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It is definitely possible to gain muscle on the keto diet. Watch your macros, be consistent and grind.0
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I'll side with monkey. Carbs are an amazing fuel source for your muscles. If you're looking to optimize your muscle growth I too agree keto might not be the most practical approach.
Plus what would be the actual reasoning to a keto diet whilst trying to bulk and build muscle?5 -
Eat enough food to fuel your workouts and you will build muscle. Is there some reason this basic principle does not apply to keto?3
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Has anyone had any experience gaining muscle on a Keto diet?
If you're just trying to look more "toned".. which is what i suspect.. then yes, keto is fine, since looking toned is mostly about reducing body fat. Add in a good strength program and you're good to go.
On the other hand, if you want to bulk up and get bigger, follow the advice given the last time you asked about it:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10641044/can-you-build-muscle-on-a-keto-diet
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Eat enough food to fuel your workouts and you will build muscle. Is there some reason this basic principle does not apply to keto?
It is possible but not optimal. Carbs help drive muscle synthesis, prevent protein breakdown, they can help increase lifting performance, also bulking on keto can be very difficult.. if you are trying to get in over 3K calories without carbs, I would imagine it could get physically painful.
OP... what are your goals exactly, are you trying to gain weight on keto, are you trying to maintain muscle as you lose weight, are you trying to recomp?5 -
I do not think it would be that difficult to bulk with keto or consuming 3k+ calories. Curious why you think it could possibly be painful?0
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I do not think it would be that difficult to bulk with keto or consuming 3k+ calories. Curious why you think it could possibly be painful?
I would say typically when people lower their carbs, fats and protein are can be pretty satiating, which is why keto is successful to help some remain in a deficit in the first place. I would say typically of course, YMMV.. I don't find fats very filling but I know I would get very tired of eating them and it wouldn't do well with my energy levels.
I remember there was a video series of someone trying to gain on keto and it came to the point where he was drinking oil. Yea.. no thanks.
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Everyone that is saying don't do Keto because of carbs and building muscle, I would ignore. Go to youtube, there are plenty of PHD Bodybuilders and powerlifters that do Keto just fine and have many conversations about it.10
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Everyone that is saying don't do Keto because of carbs and building muscle, I would ignore. Go to youtube, there are plenty of PHD Bodybuilders and powerlifters that do Keto just fine and have many conversations about it.
No one said it isn't possible.. just not the best way of going about it. Also if you are going the keto route, many time their carbs around their workouts for best performance and results.6 -
I do not think it would be that difficult to bulk with keto or consuming 3k+ calories. Curious why you think it could possibly be painful?
Most people go on Keto to lose as you feel full on fewer calories, so then in theory, if you are full eating less, then eating much more (from a deficit to surplus) would be hard.
Carbs are king when it comes to bulking, even more so than protein, and keto centres around fat.8 -
I can't say it's good for bulking or weightlifting performance. Note: most people doing "keto" and weightlifting/bodybuilding use a much higher %kcal from protein (more like 30-35% protein, 60-65% fat). Maintenance and "cutting" are better suited for keto
Lol...Jason Wittrock I believe it was consuming like 4,000 kcal/day for a month stuck @ like 145-150lbs (nice guy, just a bit too naive with pseudoscience advocating keto as superior no matter what)2 -
When you say bulking, you mean adding FAT from too many carbs?? There are TONS of people doing keto and gaining muscle just fine. protein is king for muscles. Go out and do some research and watch tons of videos on this already.16 -
When you say bulking, you mean adding FAT from too many carbs?? There are TONS of people doing keto and gaining muscle just fine. protein is king for muscles. Go out and do some research and watch tons of videos on this already.
Too much fat gain in a bulk will come from too high a surplus calories (or poor programming/performance), and is not a result of too many carbs in and of themselves.
Protein is necessary for building muscle, but carbs help drive it and make the process most productive. There are many people bulking on keto I'm sure, but it is not typical. And to be honest muscles without carbs tend to look more flat and not as full, which is why bodybuilders carb load before a show.6 -
https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-fat-muscle-performance/
Indication is that keto is less than optimal for anaerobic performance based on meta analysis of the data.
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When you say bulking, you mean adding FAT from too many carbs?? There are TONS of people doing keto and gaining muscle just fine. protein is king for muscles. Go out and do some research and watch tons of videos on this already.
Too much fat gain in a bulk will come from too high a surplus calories (or poor programming/performance), and is not a result of too many carbs in and of themselves.
Protein is necessary for building muscle, but carbs help drive it and make the process most productive. There are many people bulking on keto I'm sure, but it is not typical. And to be honest muscles without carbs tend to look more flat and not as full, which is why bodybuilders carb load before a show.
Carb load before a show is a myth and a sign of bad dieting, to a point. This has been a result quite often of poor sodium intake. There are tons of videos out now talking about how badly bodybuilders have dieted in the past. There are tons of body builders that got horrible advice from trainers that did not know what they were talking about, or used OLD knowledge about how things work.
Before you guys continue posting this, go out and watch youtube videos on flexible dieting, keto, etc. There are tons of bodybuilders that talk about how crappy their diets were and what horrible advice they got. I personally don't do keto, but have watch probably over 20 videos on keto and flexible dieting.
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When you say bulking, you mean adding FAT from too many carbs?? There are TONS of people doing keto and gaining muscle just fine. protein is king for muscles. Go out and do some research and watch tons of videos on this already.
Too much fat gain in a bulk will come from too high a surplus calories (or poor programming/performance), and is not a result of too many carbs in and of themselves.
Protein is necessary for building muscle, but carbs help drive it and make the process most productive. There are many people bulking on keto I'm sure, but it is not typical. And to be honest muscles without carbs tend to look more flat and not as full, which is why bodybuilders carb load before a show.
Carb load before a show is a myth and a sign of bad dieting, to a point. This has been a result quite often of poor sodium intake. There are tons of videos out now talking about how badly bodybuilders have dieted in the past. There are tons of body builders that got horrible advice from trainers that did not know what they were talking about, or used OLD knowledge about how things work.
Before you guys continue posting this, go out and watch youtube videos on flexible dieting, keto, etc. There are tons of bodybuilders that talk about how crappy their diets were and what horrible advice they got. I personally don't do keto, but have watch probably over 20 videos on keto and flexible dieting.
I'm not talking eating carbs to the point of extreme bloating, but the right about of carbs do make your muscles look more full. I know I find after a refeed my muscles are popping and I look fantastic. But hey do you what works for you.. every bodybuilder is different in how they respond.
I do my research and watch plenty of videos. Again no one is saying it is impossible... if someone finds their workout performance and muscle building best on keto, go for it, but to get the kind of results you get with carbs on a bulk, it is not easy, and I have heard many people struggle with it.
There are a few people who have tried bulking on keto... @Gallowmere1984 is one of them, he might be able to share some insight.
At the end of the day you do what works for you. If OP wants to try it, I encourage her to do so and she can share her results. I am always open to hearing different experiences first hand.4 -
I have done a very successful "re-comp" using keto... Last spring I went really deep into ketosis for 3 months and (by dexa) dropped from 24% to 8% body fat while gaining 8 or 9 pounds of lean mass...
My scans were actually 6 months apart and the first 3 months I was lower carb but not keto the last 3 months I was consuming less than 10g per day of carbs (mostly just secondary stuff like a slice of tomato on the side or condiments or a dill pickle...) I was definitely eating in a surplus (over 4k calories total most days).
My main observation besides the rapid fat loss and avoiding going catabolic was that I would definitely "bonk" before I was actually finished my workout. (hit the wall hard and suddenly and be completely unable to lift... just go home because there's zero in the tank)
I tried BCAAs and that let me finish a workout but completely kicked me out of ketosis. When I got my 8% scan I started letting carbs back into my life and usually have around 200g or so a day now.2 -
Not optimal. Carbs help with signal pathways for anabolism (building) that keto can't provide.I've been trying to research it, but there seems to be some conflicting views on it. Any experience with it? Opinions?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1288474/ketogenic-diets-dont-build-muscle/p1
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Lol, well drugs help too.Everyone that is saying don't do Keto because of carbs and building muscle, I would ignore. Go to youtube, there are plenty of PHD Bodybuilders and powerlifters that do Keto just fine and have many conversations about it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Carb load before a show is a myth and a sign of bad dieting, to a point. This has been a result quite often of poor sodium intake. There are tons of videos out now talking about how badly bodybuilders have dieted in the past. There are tons of body builders that got horrible advice from trainers that did not know what they were talking about, or used OLD knowledge about how things work.
Before you guys continue posting this, go out and watch youtube videos on flexible dieting, keto, etc. There are tons of bodybuilders that talk about how crappy their diets were and what horrible advice they got. I personally don't do keto, but have watch probably over 20 videos on keto and flexible dieting.
While there is tons of good information on Youtube and a lot of very knowledgeable people, I would be careful about using it as your main reference point for your beliefs. Anyone can go make a video and post it on Youtube. That doesn't mean that it is 100% accurate or scientifically proven.
As @sardelsa said, different things are going to work for different people. While it may be possible to bulk on keto, it is not going to be optimal. Diet and getting enough calories is important in bulking, but so is having solid workouts and good programming. I personally do not believe that you are capable of putting as much in to a high intensity workout without carbs as you can with them. Carbs help to fuel your body.9 -
What is optimal? Obviously that is very subjective to an individual. Especially when it comes to performance. All that data can easily be slanted towards a specific outcome. Food fuels the body. Eat enough to fuel your workout and you will either gain, maintain or lose weight depending on your goals. Eat and grind.10
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »I can't say it's good for bulking or weightlifting performance. Note: most people doing "keto" and weightlifting/bodybuilding use a much higher %kcal from protein (more like 30-35% protein, 60-65% fat). Maintenance and "cutting" are better suited for keto
Lol...Jason Wittrock I believe it was consuming like 4,000 kcal/day for a month stuck @ like 145-150lbs (nice guy, just a bit too naive with pseudoscience advocating keto as superior no matter what)
IMO Jason's 4k results is an edge case. There were other people that did the 4k cal keto diet and gained weight.
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What is optimal? Obviously that is very subjective to an individual. Especially when it comes to performance. All that data can easily be slanted towards a specific outcome. Food fuels the body. Eat enough to fuel your workout and you will either gain, maintain or lose weight depending on your goals. Eat and grind.
This isn't 100% true. Different forms of food do different things for our bodies. It's why people pay attention to macros in the first place. Let's say someone spends a whole day eating 250 calorie protein bars that contain carbs, protein, and fat, and someone else spends a whole day eating 250 calorie rice krispie treats. These people generally perform fairly equally in typical workouts. When it comes to the end of the day, who do you think is going to have the better workout? Not all foods are created equal. Carbs are an energy source for our bodies. If you have none in your system, you're far more likely to crash during a workout or not be able to produce as much work as you would have been able to had your body had a more balanced nutrient breakdown. That is what I mean by optimal.4 -
For the keto person, fat is their primary energy source. So however the body uses its fuel and the calorie surplus is the same, then why does it matter if the primary source is fat or carbs?7
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When you say bulking, you mean adding FAT from too many carbs?? There are TONS of people doing keto and gaining muscle just fine. protein is king for muscles. Go out and do some research and watch tons of videos on this already.For the keto person, fat is their primary energy source. So however the body uses its fuel and the calorie surplus is the same, then why does it matter if the primary source is fat or carbs?
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For the keto person, fat is their primary energy source. So however the body uses its fuel and the calorie surplus is the same, then why does it matter if the primary source is fat or carbs?
For high intensity level of training, there will be a higher demand for energy.. carbs have more ATP available vs fat and have shown benefits for athletic performance.
(See Alan Aragon link above!
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Performance is subjective to the individual and any test or set of tests can be skewed. What exactly is considered high intensity? Above a certain heart rate? And for a certain amount of time? When endurance is considered then at what distances? Or is it strength over time? So many factors that are very specific to the individual.10
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Performance is subjective to the individual and any test or set of tests can be skewed. What exactly is considered high intensity? Above a certain heart rate? And for a certain amount of time? When endurance is considered then at what distances? Or is it strength over time? So many factors that are very specific to the individual.
It doesn't matter what you define as high intensity. The fact remains unchanged that our bodies burn and use carbs differently than they do fat. Someone who is using fat as their primary source of energy is going to gas out faster and recover slower than someone who is using carbs as their source of energy. Plain and simple. This holds true on any given workout, low intensity or high intensity.6 -
Performance is subjective to the individual and any test or set of tests can be skewed. What exactly is considered high intensity? Above a certain heart rate? And for a certain amount of time? When endurance is considered then at what distances? Or is it strength over time? So many factors that are very specific to the individual.
Yes but see the meta-analysis above where they look at many studies and discuss definitions and classifications3
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