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It’s my body, not the governments
Replies
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »Curious on people’s opinions here. Never have I ever taken an anabolic steroid or an illegally obtained supplement for bodybuilding. We have had anabolics, sarms, prohormones, marijuana, dhea....etc all banned for the sake of our “health”, yet we are written a prescription like it’s nothing for medication daily that comes with more adverse side effects than the compounds I listed above. Everything that big pharma can’t sell gets banned or isn’t passed. I’m sick of the govt telling me what we can and can’t put in our body unless it makes THEM money. Like I said, I don’t take these, and it extends to a lot of other products as well, but listed those as examples. The fact we have more people dying from obesity related illnesses and we worry about a simple precursor to testosterone production or a compound that “may” potentially have negative effects makes me have zero support for our regulation system. It’s all a money game.
At the point where I don't as a tax payer end up having to pay for the medical bills related to drug abuse (which is what use of anabolic steroids is) then I would consider it to be just the decision of the adult involved. That said in the majority of societies there are social safety nets in place to save people who fall. I don't want holes punched in that safety net because some idiots like jumping up and down on it. Therefore I am fine with "no jumping" signs being posted and consequences if you do. Same reason I don't mind laws requiring that everyone wear a seatbelt.
Any adult is free to do whatever they want, there just are some consequences for doing things that negatively impact society. Being reckless in a way that is likely to cause injury (including self-injury) is not something I think society should support and in some cases I think it should have consequences to discourage it.11 -
Personally I think those abusing prescriptions and the doctors providing should get life sentences so those who actually need the medications can get them without jumping thru hoops. Same goes for the methheads making it impossible to get cold medicine. Just either let them overdose or lock them up. Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.3
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Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
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Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin11 -
johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems? I can understand why cocaine, heroin....etc are illegal. If you want to be locked up in a room and do drugs where you won’t be able to hurt anyone but yourself, be my guest, my problem is when you take a drug or alcohol and your choices affect others health5 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
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johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
Cost/Benefit (to society)
History shows how well prohibition worked out.
What would be the benefit of removing the prescription requirement for viagra? (For society, not date-rapey frat boys)6 -
Do and think what you want as long as it doesn't harm or negatively impact those around you, but be prepared to face the consequences if your need for individuality and personal moral ideals override the protections our society offers. Yes, things need to be reexamined as we learn more and studied with as little bias as possible. We currently live in a capitalistic society, so lots of stuff is profit-driven. But like, I still see the need for some solid information on publicly available drugs before we let people go crazy. Pro-marijuana in lots of instances, but should people say, give it to their 12-year-old for self-diagnosed sleep issues or recreation? That's where the guidelines come in.
I live in a society, so I accept the need for overarching guidelines for civility and safety for myself and my fellow man. Do I think certain things need to change to create a better life for the majority of people? Absolutely - but I'm a drop in the ocean of billions of people, so I don't expect the world is going to cater to my every want and desire.
We need to have some level of faith that there are enough educated and conventionally morally sound "professionals" who care about society as a whole - doctors, scientists, policy makers, LEOs - to keep the majority of people safe and healthy, or our civil society will come to painful end. There's a fine balance, and it can tilt both ways - not enough regulation, chaos and instability, too much regulation, personal choice, safety, and autonomy go out the window.5 -
For those who advocate minimal government, I wonder how they propose completing national collaborative projects? And if another agency is used, how is it any less bureaucratic than the government?
Take roads for instance. An enterprising citizen may be able to take care of the pot-hole outside their property, but what about a nation spanning highway or railway? Such projects demand collaborative effort.9 -
For those who advocate minimal government, I wonder how they propose completing national collaborative projects? And if another agency is used, how is it any less bureaucratic than the government?
Take roads for instance. An enterprising citizen may be able to take care of the pot-hole outside their property, but what about a nation spanning highway or railway? Such projects demand collaborative effort.
Paygo.
FedEx/DHL/UPS do better than USPS for most stuff larger than 2 lbs.
A Paygo transit system would likely do so as well.3 -
For those who advocate minimal government, I wonder how they propose completing national collaborative projects? And if another agency is used, how is it any less bureaucratic than the government?
Take roads for instance. An enterprising citizen may be able to take care of the pot-hole outside their property, but what about a nation spanning highway or railway? Such projects demand collaborative effort.
How would they be competing? Unless you mean competing to get funds from those who would voluntarily fund them. Of course, we can argue at what level should it be done? Do we really need to send money all the way to DC to have it come back to fix a pothole? Maybe we expect local communities to take care of their roads without Federal funds.
I'm not quite a "Taxation is theft..." Libertarian, but I do believe there are instances where taxes are taken by one group and used to buy the votes of others. So I can see why some believe taxation is theft. Some are asked to pay a higher percentage of their earnings, but don't get a comparable "return" in government goods and services. Take Social Security. Those who pay close to the minimum will get 90% of the adjusted monthly income in monthly benefits. Those who pay the max in FICA taxes will only get 30% of their adjusted monthly income in monthly benefits. Shouldn't both get the same 90% or same 30%?
Most have no problem with voluntary cooperation and commerce. Freedom loving people have a hard time with others making the determination that they should foot the bill for a vision of the greater good that isn't theirs.
I think of things like asking churches to fund birth control or forcing bakeries to bake cakes based on another's vision of the greater good.
If you think baking cakes or birth control are good things, write checks or open bakeries. But don't demand that others adopt your values. Forcing others to act in accordance with your values is really no less offensive than those who sought to impose their marriage values on same-sex couples.
In both cases, the forcing of values due to one or the others vision of the greater good is antithetical to freedom.
Giving people the freedom to participate or not ensures freedom is preserved. If values are imposed on people, freedom is lost. The only limit to freedom should be that it only impacts the decision maker. I.E. I don't have the freedom to punch you in the nose and take your bicycle. I cannot commit violence on you and take your property. Again, those actions are my imposing my values on you.
Where as if you want to have a same sex marriage, or not, or bake a cake or not, or buy someone birth control or not are all in the realm of personal freedom. It costs me none of my freedom for you to have the ability to make that choice. And if there are other costs, they should be borne solely by those exercising their freedom to choose.
I.E. if you ride your motorcycle without a helmet and become injured, you and you alone are responsible for the costs and consequences of your choices.
It is those who mandate shared consequences who are anti-freedom. Voluntary sharing, such as insurance is acceptable as long as it is strictly voluntary. Again, once you start mandating what the coverage should be or that you cannot make conditions or risk rate the policies or tax one group to cover another then someone's freedom is abridged.14 -
johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
Cost/Benefit (to society)
History shows how well prohibition worked out.
What would be the benefit of removing the prescription requirement for viagra? (For society, not date-rapey frat boys)
Have you ever taken pre workout??? I can tell you right there, that is a benefit in itself....skin splitting pumps! Lol. And even if it has no muscle anabolism benefit, the placebo of looking bigger and feeling/chasing the pump leads me to a more aggressive workout with better results long term. There’s a benefit I see lol.15 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
Cost/Benefit (to society)
History shows how well prohibition worked out.
What would be the benefit of removing the prescription requirement for viagra? (For society, not date-rapey frat boys)
Have you ever taken pre workout??? I can tell you right there, that is a benefit in itself....skin splitting pumps! Lol. And even if it has no muscle anabolism benefit, the placebo of looking bigger and feeling/chasing the pump leads me to a more aggressive workout with better results long term. There’s a benefit I see lol.
Cool story bro.
And your pumps provide a benefit to society how, exactly?12 -
johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
Cost/Benefit (to society)
History shows how well prohibition worked out.
What would be the benefit of removing the prescription requirement for viagra? (For society, not date-rapey frat boys)
Have you ever taken pre workout??? I can tell you right there, that is a benefit in itself....skin splitting pumps! Lol. And even if it has no muscle anabolism benefit, the placebo of looking bigger and feeling/chasing the pump leads me to a more aggressive workout with better results long term. There’s a benefit I see lol.
Cool story bro.
And your pumps provide a benefit to society how, exactly?
Lol love when people get all flustered. And I’ll tell you how: my body is a source of income for me, which in return, I pay taxes on that income......there you go “bro”9 -
johnslater461 wrote: »
Cool story bro.
And your pumps provide a benefit to society how, exactly?
Irrelevant question. The real question is why does society feel the need to mandate what he does or doesn't put into his body? It's HIS body.
So benefiting society is a pointless question.10 -
tbright1965 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
Cool story bro.
And your pumps provide a benefit to society how, exactly?
Irrelevant question. The real question is why does society feel the need to mandate what he does or doesn't put into his body? It's HIS body.
So benefiting society is a pointless question.
THANK YOU ;p 4 -
tbright1965 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »
Cool story bro.
And your pumps provide a benefit to society how, exactly?
Irrelevant question. The real question is why does society feel the need to mandate what he does or doesn't put into his body? It's HIS body.
So benefiting society is a pointless question.
Read above re: congenital heart conditions.
More heart attacks => more medical expenses paid by insurance companies => higher insurance premiums for everyone
I'm not willing to pay for some bro to get pumped18 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »johnslater461 wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »Sad thing is we're one of the only nations in the world that require a prescription for viagra so it shows how stupid the system is.
Considering Viagra is (was originally) intended as a med for a few cardiac issues, it makes sense that it would be a prescription medication.
My chem professor was on the team that "invented" Viagra. It wasn't until trials where they noticed that it helped with erectile dysfunction. He told us of their looking at side effects - "hey, look at that!" Then they thought about it and realized it made sense, so they ran trials regarding that usage.
Yeah but viagra and cialis can easily be bought without a prescription....
So can cocaine, crystal meth, and heroin
Little difference in terms of side effects and purpose though. Why should one be restricted from a vasodilator unless they have heart problems?
Because many have heart problems that are undiagnosed. Hence the need for a prescription.
But we can legalize alcohol and smoking for those with health problems as well?
Cost/Benefit (to society)
History shows how well prohibition worked out.
What would be the benefit of removing the prescription requirement for viagra? (For society, not date-rapey frat boys)
Have you ever taken pre workout??? I can tell you right there, that is a benefit in itself....skin splitting pumps! Lol. And even if it has no muscle anabolism benefit, the placebo of looking bigger and feeling/chasing the pump leads me to a more aggressive workout with better results long term. There’s a benefit I see lol.
That's a benefit for you using it. It's not a benefit for removing the prescription requirement.7
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