Switch to split training after training for over a year?
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jseams1234 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »They mean switching from full body, which you are already not doing anyway. Are you looking to change your program AGAIN?!
ETA if you're talking about body part bro splits, that's usually best for people on juice.
Noo im not gonna change my routine it’s just I’ve been learning a lot about lifting recently and upon reading this statement because I’ve been lifting for just over a year and a half I just wanted other people’s opinions on this. And yeah I’ve read alt that it’s mainly for people on juice too.
I thought this PHAT plan was full body?
No.... Programs like PHAT and PHUL are Upper/Lower splits that incorporate both strength (Power) and hypertrophy into the split. A PPL (Push, Pull, Legs) is a body part split where the split is based on pushing movements, pulling movements and legs. Usually ran twice a week for frequency or even 1x a week (M,W,F). A "bro split" is usually a split where only one body part is focused on per day. Arm day, chest day, back day, shoulder day, leg day, core ... etc. Each part is hit only once per week and although it can keep you in the gym every day it's not very optimal because of lack of frequency. Quite popular though for some reason. Full Body is your entire body in one workout including lower body. Usually done only 3 times a week and as you add intensity and advance it can be a lot to recover from - can also be a very long workout unless you don't add a lot of accessories.
It's good you are reading, although it can be very confusing, I'm sure. There are so many opinions and articles on what you SHOULD be doing and you can always find something that makes you question if what you are doing is correct or that there might be a better way. Unfortunately, in the body building world and fitness industry in general everybody is trying to reinvent the wheel (or rename it and claim it their own) or sell you something.
Thanks for this, really insightful!
Yeahh this is very true lol some say A is best some say B is best and it does get confusing but i just try to understand and take in the information and learn what I can from it.
So in your opinion what’s more effective the upper lower split or the PPL?
One thing about doing this PHAT routine is I find my inner upper chest is lagging behind a bit and not really growing as fast as every other muscle, do you have any advice that could help with this?
Thanks.
Honestly, it's not all that confusing or even complicated. It only becomes so when the question becomes what is "best". I am paraphrasing Eric Helms who said it's better to do a thing 60% perfect 100% of the time than 100% perfect 60% of the time.
You have a tendency towards overanalysis. There are only a few factors here. Heavy weight/ Low reps = strength gains. Medium reps/ medium weight = some strength and some hypertrophy. High reps/ low weight = endurance. And it's all in a continuum. Decide what your goal is. Pick a program that helps you to get to your goals. That's the only "best". End of story.
Depending on your goals, full body is best, or PPL is best or Spits are best. I see a lot of folks knock splits around here, and I think personally, that 1 body part a day is useless. But I have done some split programs that were great for hypertrophy and some strength growth and were easy to recover from. So, they were really effective for my goals at the time.
Anvil posted this in one of the other many threads your have posted. It is a valuable perspective.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/41832867#Comment_41832867
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jseams1234 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »They mean switching from full body, which you are already not doing anyway. Are you looking to change your program AGAIN?!
ETA if you're talking about body part bro splits, that's usually best for people on juice.
Noo im not gonna change my routine it’s just I’ve been learning a lot about lifting recently and upon reading this statement because I’ve been lifting for just over a year and a half I just wanted other people’s opinions on this. And yeah I’ve read alt that it’s mainly for people on juice too.
I thought this PHAT plan was full body?
No.... Programs like PHAT and PHUL are Upper/Lower splits that incorporate both strength (Power) and hypertrophy into the split. A PPL (Push, Pull, Legs) is a body part split where the split is based on pushing movements, pulling movements and legs. Usually ran twice a week for frequency or even 1x a week (M,W,F). A "bro split" is usually a split where only one body part is focused on per day. Arm day, chest day, back day, shoulder day, leg day, core ... etc. Each part is hit only once per week and although it can keep you in the gym every day it's not very optimal because of lack of frequency. Quite popular though for some reason. Full Body is your entire body in one workout including lower body. Usually done only 3 times a week and as you add intensity and advance it can be a lot to recover from - can also be a very long workout unless you don't add a lot of accessories.
It's good you are reading, although it can be very confusing, I'm sure. There are so many opinions and articles on what you SHOULD be doing and you can always find something that makes you question if what you are doing is correct or that there might be a better way. Unfortunately, in the body building world and fitness industry in general everybody is trying to reinvent the wheel (or rename it and claim it their own) or sell you something.
Thanks for this, really insightful!
Yeahh this is very true lol some say A is best some say B is best and it does get confusing but i just try to understand and take in the information and learn what I can from it.
So in your opinion what’s more effective the upper lower split or the PPL?
One thing about doing this PHAT routine is I find my inner upper chest is lagging behind a bit and not really growing as fast as every other muscle, do you have any advice that could help with this?
Thanks.
Go back in time and choose different ancestors. The shape of your musculature is largely determined by genetics. There is no such thing as “inner chest” muscles which can be worked independently of the rest of your chest. They’re part of the pectoral muscles, and the shape of your chest will be determined by the origins and insertions of your muscles/connective tissue.
It’s like guys asking how to develop a biceps peak, or women wanting a thigh gap. You either have it genetically or you don’t. You can make your biceps bigger, but you can’t change the basic shape of them. If you have long, round biceps, you’re not going to ever end up with short, peaky biceps.
Ahh this is good to know thanks for the insight.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »They mean switching from full body, which you are already not doing anyway. Are you looking to change your program AGAIN?!
ETA if you're talking about body part bro splits, that's usually best for people on juice.
Noo im not gonna change my routine it’s just I’ve been learning a lot about lifting recently and upon reading this statement because I’ve been lifting for just over a year and a half I just wanted other people’s opinions on this. And yeah I’ve read alt that it’s mainly for people on juice too.
I thought this PHAT plan was full body?
No.... Programs like PHAT and PHUL are Upper/Lower splits that incorporate both strength (Power) and hypertrophy into the split. A PPL (Push, Pull, Legs) is a body part split where the split is based on pushing movements, pulling movements and legs. Usually ran twice a week for frequency or even 1x a week (M,W,F). A "bro split" is usually a split where only one body part is focused on per day. Arm day, chest day, back day, shoulder day, leg day, core ... etc. Each part is hit only once per week and although it can keep you in the gym every day it's not very optimal because of lack of frequency. Quite popular though for some reason. Full Body is your entire body in one workout including lower body. Usually done only 3 times a week and as you add intensity and advance it can be a lot to recover from - can also be a very long workout unless you don't add a lot of accessories.
It's good you are reading, although it can be very confusing, I'm sure. There are so many opinions and articles on what you SHOULD be doing and you can always find something that makes you question if what you are doing is correct or that there might be a better way. Unfortunately, in the body building world and fitness industry in general everybody is trying to reinvent the wheel (or rename it and claim it their own) or sell you something.
Thanks for this, really insightful!
Yeahh this is very true lol some say A is best some say B is best and it does get confusing but i just try to understand and take in the information and learn what I can from it.
So in your opinion what’s more effective the upper lower split or the PPL?
One thing about doing this PHAT routine is I find my inner upper chest is lagging behind a bit and not really growing as fast as every other muscle, do you have any advice that could help with this?
Thanks.
I think they both have their place and can both be effective. You get out of them what you put into them. I honestly couldn't recommend one over the other although I used to run a PPL before I blew out a knee (unrelated to the PPL). I'm still waiting to see if I'm going to need a replacement so I haven't done legs for over a year now. I'm literally starting to look like that guy in the memes. I run a modified PHU(no L) and do two power days and one hypertrophy day.
I agree with the above about the chest - it's largely genetic and based on insertion points. PHAT already incorporates incline work which is the only thing I'd suggest. However, it does take time and that upper inner chest area I think you are referring to often seems laggy and "thin" compared to other parts of the chest - partly because less fat accumulates there and the muscle is thinner in that area - which will often cause some ribs to show if you lack sufficient muscular mass or are extremely lean. The same thing happens with upper obliques for a lot of guys. Very thin with more ribs showing than muscle... just takes time to build them up enough. Dude, just settle in... and be patient.
Thanks for the helpful advice!0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Davidsdottir wrote: »They mean switching from full body, which you are already not doing anyway. Are you looking to change your program AGAIN?!
ETA if you're talking about body part bro splits, that's usually best for people on juice.
Noo im not gonna change my routine it’s just I’ve been learning a lot about lifting recently and upon reading this statement because I’ve been lifting for just over a year and a half I just wanted other people’s opinions on this. And yeah I’ve read alt that it’s mainly for people on juice too.
I thought this PHAT plan was full body?
No.... Programs like PHAT and PHUL are Upper/Lower splits that incorporate both strength (Power) and hypertrophy into the split. A PPL (Push, Pull, Legs) is a body part split where the split is based on pushing movements, pulling movements and legs. Usually ran twice a week for frequency or even 1x a week (M,W,F). A "bro split" is usually a split where only one body part is focused on per day. Arm day, chest day, back day, shoulder day, leg day, core ... etc. Each part is hit only once per week and although it can keep you in the gym every day it's not very optimal because of lack of frequency. Quite popular though for some reason. Full Body is your entire body in one workout including lower body. Usually done only 3 times a week and as you add intensity and advance it can be a lot to recover from - can also be a very long workout unless you don't add a lot of accessories.
It's good you are reading, although it can be very confusing, I'm sure. There are so many opinions and articles on what you SHOULD be doing and you can always find something that makes you question if what you are doing is correct or that there might be a better way. Unfortunately, in the body building world and fitness industry in general everybody is trying to reinvent the wheel (or rename it and claim it their own) or sell you something.
Thanks for this, really insightful!
Yeahh this is very true lol some say A is best some say B is best and it does get confusing but i just try to understand and take in the information and learn what I can from it.
So in your opinion what’s more effective the upper lower split or the PPL?
One thing about doing this PHAT routine is I find my inner upper chest is lagging behind a bit and not really growing as fast as every other muscle, do you have any advice that could help with this?
Thanks.
Honestly, it's not all that confusing or even complicated. It only becomes so when the question becomes what is "best". I am paraphrasing Eric Helms who said it's better to do a thing 60% perfect 100% of the time than 100% perfect 60% of the time.
You have a tendency towards overanalysis. There are only a few factors here. Heavy weight/ Low reps = strength gains. Medium reps/ medium weight = some strength and some hypertrophy. High reps/ low weight = endurance. And it's all in a continuum. Decide what your goal is. Pick a program that helps you to get to your goals. That's the only "best". End of story.
Depending on your goals, full body is best, or PPL is best or Spits are best. I see a lot of folks knock splits around here, and I think personally, that 1 body part a day is useless. But I have done some split programs that were great for hypertrophy and some strength growth and were easy to recover from. So, they were really effective for my goals at the time.
Anvil posted this in one of the other many threads your have posted. It is a valuable perspective.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/41832867#Comment_41832867
Yeahh I do over analyse.. thanks for the helpful words!0 -
It's also worth mentioning that "training age" (how long you've been "training") has a lot to do with what you've actually been doing in the gym, not how long you've been going to the gym.
A lot of people screw around for 2 hours a day in the gym on a poorly-designed program (or no program at all, just random exercises on random days), or program hopping every two weeks, and accomplish next to nothing. If they've been doing that for a year or two, they're basically still a beginner in terms of "training age".
Pick a (well-designed) program that's consistent with your goals, put your nose to the grindstone and DTFP (Do The ___ Program!) for 8-12 months. Don't worry about whether it's "optimal" or "the best", because there's no such thing. If there was an "optimal" or "best" routine for everybody, then everybody would be doing it. To paraphrase Eric Helms again, "It's better to do something 60% optimal 100% of the time than it is to do something that's 100% optimal 60% of the time." At the end of that time, assess your gains and your goals. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it; if not, pick another program and repeat the above.
Not only does program hopping potentially limit your gains, it limits your ability to assess them. If you're doing a program that has you squatting twice a week at 3x8-10 and a month later you switch to a program that has you squatting 3 times a week at 5x2-5, then a month later you switch to another program that has you back at 3x8-10 but with accessory/pre-exhaust movements before the squat, how are you going to assess your progress? Your weights are going to be different in every one of those scenarios. If you'd stuck to the original program that entire time and your squat went from 180 pounds to 225 pounds, you'd have specific, measurable, verifiable progress.6 -
It's also worth mentioning that "training age" (how long you've been "training") has a lot to do with what you've actually been doing in the gym, not how long you've been going to the gym.
A lot of people screw around for 2 hours a day in the gym on a poorly-designed program (or no program at all, just random exercises on random days), or program hopping every two weeks, and accomplish next to nothing. If they've been doing that for a year or two, they're basically still a beginner in terms of "training age".
Pick a (well-designed) program that's consistent with your goals, put your nose to the grindstone and DTFP (Do The ___ Program!) for 8-12 months. Don't worry about whether it's "optimal" or "the best", because there's no such thing. If there was an "optimal" or "best" routine for everybody, then everybody would be doing it. To paraphrase Eric Helms again, "It's better to do something 60% optimal 100% of the time than it is to do something that's 100% optimal 60% of the time." At the end of that time, assess your gains and your goals. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it; if not, pick another program and repeat the above.
Not only does program hopping potentially limit your gains, it limits your ability to assess them. If you're doing a program that has you squatting twice a week at 3x8-10 and a month later you switch to a program that has you squatting 3 times a week at 5x2-5, then a month later you switch to another program that has you back at 3x8-10 but with accessory/pre-exhaust movements before the squat, how are you going to assess your progress? Your weights are going to be different in every one of those scenarios. If you'd stuck to the original program that entire time and your squat went from 180 pounds to 225 pounds, you'd have specific, measurable, verifiable progress.
Yeahh I have been sticking with the PHAT programme for the past 2 months now and before that I was sticking to my other routines for a long amount of time too but thanks for the input I appreciate your help.0 -
It's also worth mentioning that "training age" (how long you've been "training") has a lot to do with what you've actually been doing in the gym, not how long you've been going to the gym.
A lot of people screw around for 2 hours a day in the gym on a poorly-designed program (or no program at all, just random exercises on random days), or program hopping every two weeks, and accomplish next to nothing. If they've been doing that for a year or two, they're basically still a beginner in terms of "training age".
Pick a (well-designed) program that's consistent with your goals, put your nose to the grindstone and DTFP (Do The ___ Program!) for 8-12 months. Don't worry about whether it's "optimal" or "the best", because there's no such thing. If there was an "optimal" or "best" routine for everybody, then everybody would be doing it. To paraphrase Eric Helms again, "It's better to do something 60% optimal 100% of the time than it is to do something that's 100% optimal 60% of the time." At the end of that time, assess your gains and your goals. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it; if not, pick another program and repeat the above.
Not only does program hopping potentially limit your gains, it limits your ability to assess them. If you're doing a program that has you squatting twice a week at 3x8-10 and a month later you switch to a program that has you squatting 3 times a week at 5x2-5, then a month later you switch to another program that has you back at 3x8-10 but with accessory/pre-exhaust movements before the squat, how are you going to assess your progress? Your weights are going to be different in every one of those scenarios. If you'd stuck to the original program that entire time and your squat went from 180 pounds to 225 pounds, you'd have specific, measurable, verifiable progress.
Yeahh I have been sticking with the PHAT programme for the past 2 months now and before that I was sticking to my other routines for a long amount of time too but thanks for the input I appreciate your help.
But before PHAT your program was made up and not doing anything for you. Your real lifting career began when you started PHAT.5 -
Davidsdottir wrote: »It's also worth mentioning that "training age" (how long you've been "training") has a lot to do with what you've actually been doing in the gym, not how long you've been going to the gym.
A lot of people screw around for 2 hours a day in the gym on a poorly-designed program (or no program at all, just random exercises on random days), or program hopping every two weeks, and accomplish next to nothing. If they've been doing that for a year or two, they're basically still a beginner in terms of "training age".
Pick a (well-designed) program that's consistent with your goals, put your nose to the grindstone and DTFP (Do The ___ Program!) for 8-12 months. Don't worry about whether it's "optimal" or "the best", because there's no such thing. If there was an "optimal" or "best" routine for everybody, then everybody would be doing it. To paraphrase Eric Helms again, "It's better to do something 60% optimal 100% of the time than it is to do something that's 100% optimal 60% of the time." At the end of that time, assess your gains and your goals. If what you're doing is working, keep doing it; if not, pick another program and repeat the above.
Not only does program hopping potentially limit your gains, it limits your ability to assess them. If you're doing a program that has you squatting twice a week at 3x8-10 and a month later you switch to a program that has you squatting 3 times a week at 5x2-5, then a month later you switch to another program that has you back at 3x8-10 but with accessory/pre-exhaust movements before the squat, how are you going to assess your progress? Your weights are going to be different in every one of those scenarios. If you'd stuck to the original program that entire time and your squat went from 180 pounds to 225 pounds, you'd have specific, measurable, verifiable progress.
Yeahh I have been sticking with the PHAT programme for the past 2 months now and before that I was sticking to my other routines for a long amount of time too but thanks for the input I appreciate your help.
But before PHAT your program was made up and not doing anything for you. Your real lifting career began when you started PHAT.
Yeahh I agree, I was still gaining muscle doing my routines but considering I had never done lifting before and I was doing a split programme to start off with I don’t think I was making as much progress as I would of liked to lol.1 -
You could run PHUL for years effectively
ETA.. It would to be perodized and/or cut bulk but still0 -
It just means that you’re organizing your training into periods. These periods would generally be different in intensity/volume/frequency. For long term progress you need periods of higher volume/lower intensity and periods of higher intensity/lower volume.3 -
Ahhh okay thank you for telling me this.0
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