full cream milk vs skim? CICO users weigh in on this?

NovusDies wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

As you said, that drives the entire diet industry.

So a percentage of Ketoers have chosen out of fear and not so much personal preference. I would hope you would agree that we should discourage anyone from choosing any diet plan that limits food choices unless they absolutely need it.

Why do people have to "absolutely need" a particular non-average way of eating, in order for us not to be obligated to discourage them? IMO, we should discourage people from adopting eating plans that are unhealthy, unsustainable, or counter to their stated preferences/goals. I know of nothing that suggests that properly-structured keto is unhealthy (for medically normal people), but think questions about sustainability are rational to ask if someone's considering keto (it's sustainable for some, but not others).

Clearly, if someone's coming at an eating plan for misinformed reasons, it's good to correct misinformation. (I routinely discourage people from becoming vegetarian just in order to lose weight, even though I am a vegetarian, because there's no vegetarian weight loss magic.) From what I've seen, @nvmomketo is pretty straight-up in how she advises others, not a starry-eyed "keto for all" evangelist.

Back on topic: I generally use skim milk, and nonfat yogurt. I grew up drinking skim, so it tastes right to me, and with a calorie budget I prefer getting fat from other sources - nuts, seeds, avocados, full-fat cheese. I eat/drink a lot of dairy (as an ovo-lacto vegetarian), so using all full-fat would be very limiting for me. A little real whipped heavy cream is definitely worth its calories in certain situations, however.

NovusDies wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

As you said, that drives the entire diet industry.

So a percentage of Ketoers have chosen out of fear and not so much personal preference. I would hope you would agree that we should discourage anyone from choosing any diet plan that limits food choices unless they absolutely need it.

But what if they want to eat that way?

As @AnnPT77 said, it is usually helpful discourage unhealthy diets, like a military or grapefruit diet, or inform people so they can make a better choice about their diets, but there really is no reason to discourage someone from trying a named diet (like Atkins, Whole 30, Dukkan, Ornish etc) or or a diet with certain food types (like keto, vegetarian, vegan, Mediterranean, etc) if they are not unhealthy. Some of these diets will help people improve their health even if they don't absolutely need to follow it.

I switched to keto to address my early IR and lower inflammation for my autoimmune issues and arthritis. I'd tried moderation for decades and was gaining weight on it. Keto worked for me and help make weight loss easier for me. I did not absolutely NEED keto, but I'm really glad I tried it. So much so that I mostly stay at ketogenic carb levels.

So sure, some keto'ers choose it out of fear. I fully admit that I chose it partially out of fear: I feared developing full blown diabetes, never improving my overall health and having my arthritis progress faster than is acceptable to me. I doubt I would have walked away from jujubes and my grandmother's cinnamon buns unless fear played a role in it.

But I still think fear is a factor in many people's dietary changes: fear of getting fat, fear of losing opportunities, fear of not keeping up with their kids, fear of never attracting a significant other or whatever. Sometimes those fears are founded.

On the other hand, the fear of OMG-I-ate-an-apple-so-now-I-will-not-lose-weight, or OMG-I-can't drink-a-500kcal-coffee-so-I-will-never-lose-weight is something to be corrected.

NovusDies wrote: »

What if they don't want to eat that way and fear is driving them? And are you really suggesting that attracting a mate is contingent on weight?

Nothing radical, IMO, should be done without a doctor's opinion and that includes cutting out a big list of carbs.

As I said, some fears are unfounded and the misinformation they are based upon should be corrected. Keto is becoming popular and there is a lot of misinformation out there. I think it best to give them the truth, as I see it, and then they can make up their own minds.

And I do believe it can be harder to find a mate when overweight. It is unfortunate but often true.

Carbs are non-essential macronutrients. I don't believe a doctor, who probably has no nutrition training or interest, needs to be consulted before cutting way back on sugar, flour and grains. Funnily enough, my orthomolecular doctor recommended Keto to me.

Powdered skim milk is the devil.