Confused by numbers :D Help?
sauronseye
Posts: 40 Member
I started working out again after a very sedentary period caused by sciatica and knee pain and this time I am taking it very seriously. I've been doing yoga and strength training for three weeks and then switched to yoga+Insanity. I am in the middle of the second week of Insanity now.
I am weighing my food and logging everything. Even the smallest amount of food, even walking (some days I will walk for a long time because I choose to run errands either on foot or by cycling, I avoid any kind of transport). I am active at home (cleaning and cooking, taking care of the pets every day)
I still chose 'sedentary' when given the option here on MFP.
I've tried various calculators and they all say different things. I set my goal at losing 1 kg per week, but it's not happening yet, actually, I gained half a kilogram (which I know is expected in the beginning because of the micro-tears in the muscles which need repairing which then causes water retention).
What I am worried about is overestimating how much 'extra' I can eat. Should I eat some of the calories back? Because I AM eating some of them back because I get hungry. I do not drink sodas, I avoid sweets as much as possible (sometimes I'll have a bit like now in PMS but then I add a bit more to my exercise), I eat enough protein, good fat, vegetables...I am seemingly doing everything right.
I've read that MFP calorie counter is not that great so I am purposely logging more food (for example if I had 0.5 dl of 2.8% milk I'll just log it as if I had 1 dl.
The last calculator I used gave me this
https://ibb.co/hT7Q8y
It differs slightly from the last one which calculated my BMR at 1,498.8. It might seem unimportant but it makes a difference to my layman self.
If the whole point of losing weight is to spend more calories than you eat, I should be OK even if I am eating some of the calories back? Or not? I am confused.
I am weighing my food and logging everything. Even the smallest amount of food, even walking (some days I will walk for a long time because I choose to run errands either on foot or by cycling, I avoid any kind of transport). I am active at home (cleaning and cooking, taking care of the pets every day)
I still chose 'sedentary' when given the option here on MFP.
I've tried various calculators and they all say different things. I set my goal at losing 1 kg per week, but it's not happening yet, actually, I gained half a kilogram (which I know is expected in the beginning because of the micro-tears in the muscles which need repairing which then causes water retention).
What I am worried about is overestimating how much 'extra' I can eat. Should I eat some of the calories back? Because I AM eating some of them back because I get hungry. I do not drink sodas, I avoid sweets as much as possible (sometimes I'll have a bit like now in PMS but then I add a bit more to my exercise), I eat enough protein, good fat, vegetables...I am seemingly doing everything right.
I've read that MFP calorie counter is not that great so I am purposely logging more food (for example if I had 0.5 dl of 2.8% milk I'll just log it as if I had 1 dl.
The last calculator I used gave me this
https://ibb.co/hT7Q8y
It differs slightly from the last one which calculated my BMR at 1,498.8. It might seem unimportant but it makes a difference to my layman self.
If the whole point of losing weight is to spend more calories than you eat, I should be OK even if I am eating some of the calories back? Or not? I am confused.
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Replies
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You haven't gathered enough data yet to be able to tell how you are doing. Give it 6-8 weeks and see where your weight trend goes. Weight loss isn't linear. A calorie deficit over time will result in weight loss over time.
The MFP calorie counter works just fine as long as you use accurate entries from the database. Double-check the nutrition numbers on the entries you use. After you've found good entries, enter your calorie intake as closely as you can. Don't overestimate. You want the best data you can get so that you can troubleshoot as necessary.
As for eating back exercise calories, you might start by eating back ~50%. If you lose weight at the expected rate with that amount, stick to it. If you lose weight more slowly, eat back a lower percentage. If you lose weight more quickly, eat back a higher percentage.5 -
Double-check the nutrition numbers on the entries you use. After you've found good entries, enter your calorie intake as closely as you can. Don't overestimate. You want the best data you can get so that you can troubleshoot as necessary.
Yeah, I found some really odd values several times already and corrected them. Thanks for the advice.
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1kg per week is quite a high rate of loss. How much weight do you have to lose in total?1
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Did you set your goal using a TDEE calculator?
Because unlike this site they include your exercise when they give you your calorie goal - the setup questions ask you about your activity AND your exercise.
On here the daily goal is + exercise calories, the set up questions only relate to daily activity and NOT purposeful exercise.
The food database has many poor entries, don't confuse the issue by falsifying how much food you log (you would then be making the good entries inaccurate as well as making the bad entries smaller) - verify and choose good entries instead and log accurately.
It doesn't take long to build a good recently used item list which may cover 80% of your food logging.6 -
Redordeadhead wrote: »1kg per week is quite a high rate of loss. How much weight do you have to lose in total?
17 kg.Did you set your goal using a TDEE calculator?
Because unlike this site they include your exercise when they give you your calorie goal - the setup questions ask you about your activity AND your exercise.
On here the daily goal is + exercise calories, the set up questions only relate to daily activity and NOT purposeful exercise.
I didn't. It doesn't offer me that option, and I can't the drop-down menu looks like this. https://ibb.co/e71c5d
I don't have an option for the separation of daily activity and exercise or goals.
I know, I was doing it for several items only (usually milk and sugary crap when I eat it). Thanks for the advice.The food database has many poor entries, don't confuse the issue by falsifying how much food you log (you would then be making the good entries inaccurate as well as making the bad entries smaller) - verify and choose good entries instead and log accurately.
It doesn't take long to build a good recently used item list which may cover 80% of your food logging.
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Would the person who clicked "woo" like to explain what they disagree with in my post?
Happy to explain further if something isn't clear....9 -
Which calculator did you choose? (There are loads!)3
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The first one that Google suggested.
If you have a really good one to recommend, I am all ears.
I also used this one https://www.iifym.com/tdee-calculator/0 -
sauronseye wrote: »The first one that Google suggested.
If you have a really good one to recommend, I am all ears.
I also used this one https://www.iifym.com/tdee-calculator/
They use the same set of underlying formulae (there's about three or four main ones?) so the main difference is the interface.
The questions on there ask you both your activity and your exercise so you get a fixed daily goal that includes an average of your projected exercise.
That's the key difference with MyFitnessPal - on here you estimate your exercise after the event so get a variable daily goal. Six of one and half a dozen of the other - over time they end up in roughly the same place.
Variable daily goal probably better for people who do very long duration exercise that needs fuelling on the day or have a varied exercise routine week to week (or season to season..).
Fixed daily goal is perhaps more simple and suits people who like routine (perhaps!).7 -
as the other poster said, give it a few weeks to see how your body responds.
s far as eating back exercise calories, many of us eat back around half to account for the inaccuracy of it.
For me, I eat back if I am hungry and if im not i dont. on average i eat back around half though.1 -
That's the key difference with MyFitnessPal - on here you estimate your exercise after the event so get a variable daily goal. Six of one and half a dozen of the other - over time they end up in roughly the same place.
Variable daily goal probably better for people who do very long duration exercise that needs fuelling on the day or have a varied exercise routine week to week (or season to season..).
Fixed daily goal is perhaps more simple and suits people who like routine (perhaps!).
OK, thanks!
So, basically, MFP already takes into account your daily goal and you can eat back the calories. Why is it then that if I don't eat them back (there have been days where I didn't have time to eat and I was too tired so I was in deficit ~600 calories) it notified me I didn't eat enough - same happened when I was in a ~ 500 calories deficit*, but when I was in 100-200 calories deficit the approximation was that I was going to lose ~4 kg in 5 weeks? That means that if I wasn't in deficit* at all, I wouldn't be losing anything? It looks as if MFP is not really putting me in a deficit then from the get-go? Or am I getting all this wrong?
*By 'deficit' I mean the difference between the calorie intake and spent via exercise.
What I am asking is, if MFP already 'counts' on you eating back the calories, why does it turn out you will not lose anything if you do not put yourself in a larger deficit?0 -
"Due to PMS" - This is what jumped out at me. Where you are in your cycle will affect the number in the scale.1
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Yes, I know, but I figured I should have lost at least two kg by now because it's been almost five weeks, so the scale would maybe show 65 and a half, not 67 and a half.0
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65 kilograms? - That's 143lbs.. it doesn't sound like you have a lot to lose. 2lbs/1kg per week is likely too aggressive.2
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I'm short - 160. And I weigh 67 kg. I look my best when at 50 kg because I am not proportionally built. I am of apple build and have very large breasts/arms and wide shoulders. I also have a big belly going on at the moment. I advised my physicians (due to several diagnoses I have several specialists) and a family member who is also a physician and they all agreed 1kg per week is OK.0
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Even if you've been told that 1kg per week is OK medically, that doesn't mean that you can (or should) lose at that pace.
For one thing, weight loss isn't linear. Losing 1kg per week would be an average, not week after week.
Here's a 3 month span where I was at or under my calorie goal every day. My weight and weight trend were up and down but my overall trend was downward so I knew that I was in a deficit with the calorie goals that I was using.
For another thing, weight loss is a marathon, not a sprint. You need to figure out a comfortable way of eating that puts you at a deficit over time. Losing 0.5 or even 0.25kg per week on average would get you to your goal and might do so in a more comfortable way.
Online calculators give you numbers with which to start. You make adjustments over time as you collect your own personal data.3 -
sauronseye wrote: »That's the key difference with MyFitnessPal - on here you estimate your exercise after the event so get a variable daily goal. Six of one and half a dozen of the other - over time they end up in roughly the same place.
Variable daily goal probably better for people who do very long duration exercise that needs fuelling on the day or have a varied exercise routine week to week (or season to season..).
Fixed daily goal is perhaps more simple and suits people who like routine (perhaps!).
OK, thanks!
So, basically, MFP already takes into account your daily goal and you can eat back the calories. Why is it then that if I don't eat them back (there have been days where I didn't have time to eat and I was too tired so I was in deficit ~600 calories) it notified me I didn't eat enough - same happened when I was in a ~ 500 calories deficit*, but when I was in 100-200 calories deficit the approximation was that I was going to lose ~4 kg in 5 weeks? That means that if I wasn't in deficit* at all, I wouldn't be losing anything? It looks as if MFP is not really putting me in a deficit then from the get-go? Or am I getting all this wrong?
*By 'deficit' I mean the difference between the calorie intake and spent via exercise.
What I am asking is, if MFP already 'counts' on you eating back the calories, why does it turn out you will not lose anything if you do not put yourself in a larger deficit?
It will tell you you didn't eat enough if you are netting under 1000 or 1200 calories. So if I eat 1500 but have 700 calories of exercise and don't eat those back then 1500-700 = 800 it will tell me I haven't had enough to eat because I'm not meeting the minimum required to meet basic nutritional goals.
Also, would like to point out that an increase in exercise, any kind of new or different exercise, can lead to water retention, for muscle repair and other things, that can take 6-8 weeks to sort itself out.
when I start walking more during nice weather, boom water retention. When I start lifting weights after a period of time off, water retention.
On top of normal fluctuations in water due to monthly cycles and food/sodium intake.
There are a few reasons you might not be seeing the scale move even if you are logging accurately. But also log more accurately, using accurate entries.1 -
sauronseye wrote: »That's the key difference with MyFitnessPal - on here you estimate your exercise after the event so get a variable daily goal. Six of one and half a dozen of the other - over time they end up in roughly the same place.
Variable daily goal probably better for people who do very long duration exercise that needs fuelling on the day or have a varied exercise routine week to week (or season to season..).
Fixed daily goal is perhaps more simple and suits people who like routine (perhaps!).
OK, thanks!
So, basically, MFP already takes into account your daily goal and you can eat back the calories. Why is it then that if I don't eat them back (there have been days where I didn't have time to eat and I was too tired so I was in deficit ~600 calories) it notified me I didn't eat enough - same happened when I was in a ~ 500 calories deficit*, but when I was in 100-200 calories deficit the approximation was that I was going to lose ~4 kg in 5 weeks? That means that if I wasn't in deficit* at all, I wouldn't be losing anything? It looks as if MFP is not really putting me in a deficit then from the get-go? Or am I getting all this wrong?
*By 'deficit' I mean the difference between the calorie intake and spent via exercise.
What I am asking is, if MFP already 'counts' on you eating back the calories, why does it turn out you will not lose anything if you do not put yourself in a larger deficit?
MFP's calorie target is a deficit from your maintenance calories before exercise. With MFP, you're not creating a deficit with exercise...you already have one. Exercise isn't accounted for in your activity level...you account for it after the fact by logging it and eating back additional calories.
You will get a notification that you're not eating enough if your net calories are below 1,000. Like if you eat 1300 and then exercise 500 off and you net 800 calories you will get that warning because it's basically the same thing as only eating 800 calories.
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For another thing, weight loss is a marathon, not a sprint. You need to figure out a comfortable way of eating that puts you at a deficit over time. Losing 0.5 or even 0.25kg per week on average would get you to your goal and might do so in a more comfortable way.
Online calculators give you numbers with which to start. You make adjustments over time as you collect your own personal data.
I know, I know, it's not my first rodeo. I am just more determined and serious this time. There's an event in July that I really want to be fit for so I am giving my best. Of course, I am going to keep working out and maintaining my fitness once I get the desired result because I want this to be a permanent change.
I am actually quite comfortable with how much I eat at the moment. I am not depriving myself and if everything that the good people after you wrote is true, I am actually doing pretty OK with MFP and should see the results soon.
I can feel that my thighs are firmer and my upper arms seem firmer as well, I am bendier and I can do yoga poses I couldn't have imagined doing before. I generally feel much better, I sleep better, and I am more energetic. I've never done weighing the food before, this is my first time even though I did have an MFP attempt in 2015. which failed miserably so I am trying to do it right this time. I am also on a budget so I can't buy fancy stuff which limits me a bit. Potential overeating worried me as I didn't quite understand the way MFP actually works, but it's all good now.
Thanks for your input!
maybe1pe and cwolfman13 thanks for clarifying! I am at peace now. 1 -
I've done insanity twice now and one thing i noticed is that my body would slim down but the scale didn't budge much while I was doing it...something to keep in mind, measure yourself and take pictures to compare.0
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Abit off topic but I've got 4 weeks left on T25 and plan on doing insanity next how did you find it?I've done insanity twice now and one thing i noticed is that my body would slim down but the scale didn't budge much while I was doing it...something to keep in mind, measure yourself and take pictures to compare.0 -
I've done insanity twice now and one thing i noticed is that my body would slim down but the scale didn't budge much while I was doing it...something to keep in mind, measure yourself and take pictures to compare.
I took pictures 10 days ago when I started. I will take some today again.
I've done Insanity twice before, too. But never finished it. I only did the first month combined with other stuff like running and stretching. I always saw the results right after two weeks, this time it's different.0 -
sauronseye wrote: »
For another thing, weight loss is a marathon, not a sprint. You need to figure out a comfortable way of eating that puts you at a deficit over time. Losing 0.5 or even 0.25kg per week on average would get you to your goal and might do so in a more comfortable way.
Online calculators give you numbers with which to start. You make adjustments over time as you collect your own personal data.
I know, I know, it's not my first rodeo. I am just more determined and serious this time. There's an event in July that I really want to be fit for so I am giving my best. Of course, I am going to keep working out and maintaining my fitness once I get the desired result because I want this to be a permanent change.
I am actually quite comfortable with how much I eat at the moment. I am not depriving myself and if everything that the good people after you wrote is true, I am actually doing pretty OK with MFP and should see the results soon.
I can feel that my thighs are firmer and my upper arms seem firmer as well, I am bendier and I can do yoga poses I couldn't have imagined doing before. I generally feel much better, I sleep better, and I am more energetic. I've never done weighing the food before, this is my first time even though I did have an MFP attempt in 2015. which failed miserably so I am trying to do it right this time. I am also on a budget so I can't buy fancy stuff which limits me a bit. Potential overeating worried me as I didn't quite understand the way MFP actually works, but it's all good now.
Thanks for your input!
maybe1pe and cwolfman13 thanks for clarifying! I am at peace now.
One observation:
I understand that you want to lose some weight. It would be best to do this slowly, as you have relatively little to lose, as others have said (and this is true even though you're short).
You say your goal is to be fit for an event in July. You can be much fitter by July at your current weight. You can be actually quite fit at your current weight (whether you can get to "actually quite fit" by July is an open question, because that end-point is fuzzily defined, but you can get much fitter than you are now for sure). The fitness is all about your workouts and other physical activities.
It's difficult for someone who's very obese to become very fit. It's possible for someone who's moderately over-fat to be quite fit. I've known several good athletes who were a little heavy - say maybe 20 pounds up from where they should be. I was kind of fit even while obese: My happy weight is around 120 pounds (55 kg) - and 5'5" (165cm). At 183 pounds (83kg), which is technically obese, I was competing as a masters rower, and not utterly failing. ("Masters" means "old people" BTW, not "excellent athletes"). I didn't distinguish myself, but kept up OK with the pack, medaled a few times (place medals, not participation
) - about the same performance as I accomplish now, at just above goal weight. When obese, I did fine keeping up in spin classes, was strong, had a low resting heart rate, etc. I wasn't that high a weight because of muscle mass (120 looks fine on me because I'm built like a 14-year-old boy, not a 62-year-old woman). I was quite, quite fat.
I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't lose weight. I'm not saying that it will be unhelpful to fitness to lose weight (it will help). But I'm saying that you can go a long way by July with your fitness goals if you work at them, even it you don't reach goal weight by then.
Losing weight alongside fitness activities should work fine. Losing weight extremely fast, however, could interfere with those fitness goals. Moderate weight loss rate is a better route to fitness goals.
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Thanks for the input, Anne. And congrats on your success and your medals!
I don't think 17kg is 'not a lot'. It might seem to be little to people that have much more to lose, but to me (and the majority of people who have never been even close to obese), it is. I don't fit in 90% of my wardrobe. I am not rich, I am not even middle class. I can't afford to buy new clothes all the time. My knees started to hurt from the extra weight (when you walk, the force on your knees is the equivalent of 1½ times your body weight). I'm a practical person who wants to be healthy, fit and look good. I am not interested in staying fit at this weight. I want my clothes to fit and I want to be able to get into the dress I already own because I can't afford to spend more money on clothes.
I see where you are coming from but being fit is not my only goal, I definitely want to lose weight. If it's doable, I want to do it. I've been overweight for too long and I don't like it. I don't like how I look, I don't like how it feels, and I can't stand seeing pictures of myself because my belly's coming dangerously close to the size of my boobs, and I have huge boobs. Even my face is fat now and I look different than I looked only a year ago.
For me, this is the tipping point, I just can't go on like this. Yes, I feel much better than I did a month ago, but I want to look better as well. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
BTW thanks for converting the values to the metric system, I still struggle with imperial.
edit: I went to the vet's today to get something for my pets and I weighed myself using her scale and it turns out that I did lose weight. 0.7 kg to be exact! 2 -
Determining your BMR or TDEE is a moving target. For me, I set MFP at "slightly active" and use the calories it gave me. I have found that if it eat back the extra exercise calories I'll gain weight, if I don't I'll lose weight as expected or faster. So I settled for 50%.0
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Snowflake1968 wrote: »
No. It means you think the post is BS.5 -
sauronseye wrote: »Thanks for the input, Anne. And congrats on your success and your medals!
I don't think 17kg is 'not a lot'. It might seem to be little to people that have much more to lose, but to me (and the majority of people who have never been even close to obese), it is. I don't fit in 90% of my wardrobe. I am not rich, I am not even middle class. I can't afford to buy new clothes all the time. My knees started to hurt from the extra weight (when you walk, the force on your knees is the equivalent of 1½ times your body weight). I'm a practical person who wants to be healthy, fit and look good. I am not interested in staying fit at this weight. I want my clothes to fit and I want to be able to get into the dress I already own because I can't afford to spend more money on clothes.
I see where you are coming from but being fit is not my only goal, I definitely want to lose weight. If it's doable, I want to do it. I've been overweight for too long and I don't like it. I don't like how I look, I don't like how it feels, and I can't stand seeing pictures of myself because my belly's coming dangerously close to the size of my boobs, and I have huge boobs. Even my face is fat now and I look different than I looked only a year ago.
For me, this is the tipping point, I just can't go on like this. Yes, I feel much better than I did a month ago, but I want to look better as well. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
BTW thanks for converting the values to the metric system, I still struggle with imperial.
edit: I went to the vet's today to get something for my pets and I weighed myself using her scale and it turns out that I did lose weight. 0.7 kg to be exact!
Regardless of whether you think it's quite a lot or not, it's really not. Safe, sustainable rate of loss is considered 1% of your body weight per week. And sure, your doctor may have told you a higher percentage is okay, but in general doctors weight management training is pretty abysmal.
Sure, you can hit your target weight in July. But that doesn't mean you're going to look the way you want to if you went too fast, and sacrificed too much muscle (heart is a muscle, too!). The advice you are going to find here is to weigh your food, pick a safe and sustainable rate of loss, eat back a portion of your exercise calories, and give it time to see if its working. You may not hit the number you want come July, but you'll be a lot happier with how you look.0 -
Snowflake1968 wrote: »
Doesn't woo mean woohoo, like good job, or I agree? I hope so, or I've been insulting a lot of people.
'Woo' is a slang for 'not proven scientifically'. Like juice cleanses and detox in general, for instance.
ashliedelgado I doubt that a GP, a neurologist, an orthopaedic surgeon, and an ENT specialist would all agree on something that is potentially harmful to me. They all told me the same thing, 1kg is OK, anything more would be too fast and dangerous. I don't know what kind of experiences you have with physicians, but these people are experts in their respective fields and never advised me anything that was hurtful.
I am in no way an expert in the area of medicine but I am scientifically literate and able to critically discern facts from fiction. If I don't understand something - I'll ask. That is why I came here and opened this thread. I've no experience with how all this works and have a mediocre knowledge of nutrition.
If I hit the target - great. If not, well, I did my best and will keep doing it.
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Snowflake1968 wrote: »
@Snowflake1968
You have been insulting a lot of people.
It's woo as in bull s**t, bro science, WTF....5
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