Cardio helps bring definiton?

2

Replies

  • estherdragonbat
    estherdragonbat Posts: 5,283 Member
    edited June 2018
    I suspect it's a mix of cardio, strength training, and genetics. I'm a walker. I shoot for 2 hours daily and have for months. My speed is between 3.5 and just under 4 mph depending on terrain, heat of the day, hydration, etc. I also strength train with lighter dumbbells (currently up to 20lbs on squats, 17.5 on lunges, 9lb ankle weights on bent-leg lifts; for the record, I've worked up to these levels and started considerably lighter).

    There is definite muscle definition on my legs.

    BUT...

    I think you might be able to make a case that, since the legs carry the rest of the body, there's an inevitable strength aspect to it. I'm extrapolating from a medical condition I live with called "Chronic venous insufficiency". As explained to me, when I was at my heaviest weight, the veins in my legs collapsed under the weight of my upper body. Veins aren't muscles; I'm probably confusing a few things, but it's safe to say my legs have gotten stronger in part because I've increased my walking and the amount of time that they spend hauling my upper half around.

    Because the same questions tend to crop up in new threads, the same answers tend to get posted, so by now I think we all know that you can't spot-reduce. The fat comes off from where it's going to come off and it varies. In my case, the fat tends to leave my legs relatively quickly. (I.E. the genetic component) Less fat means muscle is likelier to be noticeable.

    But it's all interconnected and I'm not exactly going to cut out cardio or strength training to see what's having the greater effect.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    edited June 2018
    I've got far more definition in my legs from cycling - but it's taken years......

    You sound horribly confused OP and seem to pick dreadful sources of information.
    HIIT is short duration and low calorie burner.
    Strength training is a low calorie burner.
    Circuit training can be moderate to high but your duration is limited.
    Steady state cardio can be anywhere from low to the highest you could personally achieve and the duration can be from short to all day long.

    If you really want to maximise calorie burns (a bit of a sad reason IMHO) then go as hard as you can sustain the cardio of your choice for the amount of time you have available to you.
    Just like athletes do in races, the ones that win are producing the most power and burning the most calories. It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,024 Member
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    collectingblues wrote: »
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    stanmann571 wrote: »
    I'm confused.

    What was her eating like before/after the injury?

    What was her training like before/after the exercise?

    Idrk that part its from utube but it seems harsh because she mentions that all she eats was spinach with chicken and training was probably the same except the cardio

    You can rack up a lot by eating "spinach with chicken", and cardio burns more than weight lifting does. And people lie on YouTube.

    She ate more than she burned. Period.

    Weightlifting burns more i thought... unless its really intense hiit cardio

    Nope. LISS burns calories most efficiently. Burst training, either weight lifting or HIIT burns much less efficiently because very few calories are burned during rest periods, and the work periods are very short.

    But that takes like more time right? Like 3 hours compared to 30 minutes

    30 minutes of LISS burns more calories than 30 minutes of HIIT or weightlifting. Assuming of course that you can actually do HIIT for 30 minutes.

    How....

    Just believe Stan. He's right.

    Your best use of exercise time, if you purely want maximum overall calorie burn, it to take the time you have available and go as hard as you can continuously during that time (with a little warm up and cool down), but without going so hard that you're exhausted and drag through the rest of your day.

    The process of HIIT is intervals: Higher burn, lower burn, alternating. The high isn't high enough to make up for the low, for anything but a pretty small total exercise time. Moreover, the cost (to your everyday energy level) is higher from doing HIIT, so you risk sapping calories from your everyday non-exercise energy expenditure (NEAT) because HIIT is more tiring. HIIT has slightly higher EPOC (afterburn) as a percentage of exercise calories, but the actual difference in the number of calories once you do the math is silly small.
  • mbaker566
    mbaker566 Posts: 11,233 Member
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.
  • aeloine
    aeloine Posts: 2,163 Member
    edited June 2018
    She was also doing a crap ton of ab work and strength training, but the goal WAS to get her to lose some weight. Her nutrition was fine, all macros and calories accounted for, but her ankle messed with a lot of the weight bearing ab work she was supposed to be doing (weighted hip thrusts, etc.). I'm sure that after doing very intense cardio/strength training every day for a couple of weeks and going to almost none, she just felt sluggish. She didn't gain weight, she just didn't continue losing as fast as she was before. FWIW, she was already eating pretty low cal (1200-1400/day) so there wasn't as much room for her to eat less.

    This all being said from memory, I watched the video 5ever ago.
  • MelanieCN77
    MelanieCN77 Posts: 4,047 Member
    kshama2001 wrote: »
    justinkimcentral wrote: »
    You guys can youtube the vid

    I can also youtube vids about how the reptilian people secretly rule the world.

    Show us something by someone reputable, and we'll discuss.

    Or something with a sample of more than one?

    Come on people, where's your intellectual curiosity?
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.

    people race using the galloway method. i see it more and more
    they run, their phone beeps, they walk...repeat

    Right, and when their phone beeps they stop dead in the running lane causing a major pile-up and much cursing. Not that I'm bitter or anything...
  • Silentpadna
    Silentpadna Posts: 1,306 Member
    Cardio will "help" bring definition....if there is something to define....and only if it helps create or keep a calorie deficit.

    Definition comes, as folks have said, by removing fat around muscle tissue that is being preserved at the same time. If you don't have a lot of muscle in the first place, and all you do is cardio, you won't get the definition you likely desire.

    As far as HIIT is concerned, it's difficult to do it right. For most of us, there is not significant benefit to it. The "afterburn" effect, if you get it, really basically saves time....but you have to train at or near your limits to get it. And most people, even those who train a lot, likely don't really get to that limit or don't really know how. It's also difficult to measure whether you've gotten that effect or not.
  • Danp
    Danp Posts: 1,561 Member
    edited June 2018
    sijomial wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.

    But we're talking about training methods to develop fitness rather than racing right?

    If LISS was the best way to do this why do programs like C25K use increasing intervals instead of just getting people to run at a pace sustainable for 5K then try to run faster each time?

    Genuinely curious.

    As for the HIIT vs LISS. I found this article on Nerd Fitness that changed my mind from the "HIIT>LISS" camp to the "HIIT=LISS so do which ever you enjoy" camp. I tend to trust this site as it discusses actual research when making a point.

    https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/cardio-vs-hiit-vs-weights-rebooting-our-research/
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
    CarvedTones wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.

    people race using the galloway method. i see it more and more
    they run, their phone beeps, they walk...repeat

    Right, and when their phone beeps they stop dead in the running lane causing a major pile-up and much cursing. Not that I'm bitter or anything...

    They helped me get a better time in the half I ran. I got passed by a group of people beyond 10 miles and thought I must have dropped my pace so I sped an kept pace with them. A few minutes later there was a beep and someone said "and walk". I veered around them and pretty much kept their pace; probably dropped off some but I think I kept a faster pace than I was before getting passed.

    Haha, you probably did! I did a major personal best in my first 5 K because I kept having to sprint around people ambling along in a group in the runners lane. I think it really upped my pace, except for the part where I crashed into a guy and his kid when they suddenly went from a run to a walk right in front of me :o
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    While I agree that cardio helps make creating a deficit easier and that LISS is an amazing calorie burner, there is also the possibility that "feeling fat" can be all in her head. Being injured and sluggish, having to deal with the water retention necessary for injury recovery, not being able to move properly...etc, can cause someone to feel fat. Just like you can feel fit sometimes and fat other times without an actual change in your shape or weight.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
    Danp wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    mbaker566 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    It's why you don't see runners doing sprint/walk intervals in races!!

    it's called the galloway method. and it is common to see in races-though not so much elite athletes. we also see more with c25k people

    That's a training method not a racing method.

    But we're talking about training methods to develop fitness rather than racing right?

    If LISS was the best way to do this why do programs like C25K use increasing intervals instead of just getting people to run at a pace sustainable for 5K then try to run faster each time?

    Genuinely curious.

    As for the HIIT vs LISS. I found this article on Nerd Fitness that changed my mind from the "HIIT>LISS" camp to the "HIIT=LISS so do which ever you enjoy" camp. I tend to trust this site as it discusses actual research when making a point.

    https://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/cardio-vs-hiit-vs-weights-rebooting-our-research/
    @Danp
    No I was talking about rates of calorie burns and pointing out that intervals is not the way to get maximal burns.
    The detour into the Galloway method wasn't instigated by me. Read my first post that isn't part of this nested quote.
  • Silentpadna
    Silentpadna Posts: 1,306 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    bisonpitcher wrote: »
    I disagree with the HIIT vs. LISS calorie comparison. I will burn at least as much, if not more in 20 minutes of HIIT of 30 sec. sprint, 30 sec walk intervals (HR at 175-180 during sprints) as I do in a 30-35 minute LISS run.

    Let's do an example comparison for a hypothetical 150 pound person with these random speed numbers assuming sprints are double the speed of steady state (although in most cases the speed difference for 30 second sprints is not this drastic):
    10 minutes of sprinting at 12 mph: 219 calories
    10 minutes of walking at 3 mph: 27 calories
    Total: 246

    30 minutes of steady state at 6 mph: 329

    Plus you may be more tired and burn fewer calories throughout the day after HIIT.

    ETA: calories according to heart rate ARE inaccurate for interval workouts. You're basically getting extra calories during your walk segments because heart rate doesn't suddenly drop to walking heart rate and go back to sprinting heartrate on cue.

    I believe your comparison is correct - during the exercise phase. However, the benefits of HIIT, as I understand from my own research is in the "afterburn" effect, where those who do HIIT properly - and that's a big if - supposedly reap those benefits for many hours after the fact. If you leave those calories (whatever they happen to be) out of the time window, you will underestimate what HIIT does compared with LISS.

    Why I don't believe HIIT works for most (and this is only my own speculation):

    1. Most people don't actually go to their limit (i.e. their "sprint" or whatever the intense portion is is not intense enough), so they don't actually get into the "afterburn" phase.
    2. Your point that I made bold above affects their normal activity level throughout the day after HIIT. For me, when I've tried HIIT, I have actually found the opposite to be true. I'm well energized afterward (after the initial 10-15 minutes of resting).

    I believe there is some evidence to suggest that HIIT, when done right, can work. But I also believe the benefits are marginal and can certainly be erased by lower activity levels after the fact. For non-elite athletes (like me - I'm hardly an "athlete"), the only potential benefit is the saving of 30-40 minutes of LISS that I might be doing instead. Whatever marginal benefit I would get is minor compared with the overall activity vs. intake. I happen to enjoy a good walk or jog. I don't enjoy the rowing sprints on the C2 that I've tried for HIIT as much - though it does get my competitive juices going.

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