The Magic Pill - Netflix Doc
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
The elimination of beans and legumes I found to be the most bizarre. Since I’ve been trying to eat a bit healthier I’ve found so many amazing recipes using beans and legumes and couldn’t imagine cutting them out. I also imagine going Keto would be next to impossible if you were a vegetarian.
Also, apologies if this post is ridiculously long - quoting on mobile app is still a skill that eludes me!1 -
Documentaries in general, not just those on Netflix, are created because someone wants to look into a subject. Often what happens is they end up bringing in their own bias and the information is all skewed to a specific view point. Documentaries should not be the end all be all of information. They are not bad per say, but they should be taking with a grain of salt and the viewer should do additional research to find out the WHOLE story, not just the story they want you to see.
This is true. They should encourage the viewer to deeper thought and research. The problem is that too many people are watching these documentaries, taking them at face value,
declaring they've seen the light, and running around spreading often one sided opinion as gospel.9 -
I really wish there would be a documentary on Dihydrogen monoxide and it's beneficial, but sometimes lethal effects.14
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Opening people’s eyes to contemplate food choices and the benefits of eating whole food over processed junk is a good thing. That’s really the only positive thing I have to say about it.11
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I view documentaries like this the same way I view most health documentaries: it's going to be full of positive stories about people who had something improve on the diet.
The thing is, you can find these same stories about every type of diet that isn't killing people, you know? The only deciding factor is what body you have, and what health issues you have.
Diabetic - low carb. Phenylketonuria - super low protein diet. Celiac or chronic lyme disease - gluten free diet (or grain free seems to be better, in some cases). Gall bladder issues - a super low fat diet. And as has been said, some conditions (which were in the movie), are known to improve on a keto diet. Which is why it was invented (I think someone said that, too). :-)
And the thing is, these diets ARE amazing for helping people. People who need them do fabulously better on these diets. But the problem I see with documentaries like this is that they often imply that because SOME people have such amazing improvement on a particular diet, EVERYONE would see improvement as well.
That's kind of like saying that because a person with a broken leg had such great improvement in their mobility using crutches, that EVERYONE should use crutches so their mobility can improve, too. It's a logical fallacy, you know?6 -
Not going to argue or debate but the ketogenic diet was not invented for those with epilepsy (or any other medical condition) which has kinda sorta been mentioned twice in this thread. The ketogenic diet has been around at least since the 1860s and was popularized at that time by an obese undertaker named William Banting. The diet was suggested to him by an unnamed physician (See Letter on Corpulence).
Fasting was used for epilepsy as far back as ancient Greek times. The more routine use of a ketogenic diet for epilepsy began sometime around the 1920s since it is considered to mimic fasting and deemed more practical than fasting every day of one's life
and have better adherence.
Carry on.4 -
I'm into facts; that's why i like them.
Interesting, since some of those directly contradict each other. I didn't know facts could do that.8 -
deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?9 -
I'm sure it would work but it's not for me. I'm trying to change my lifestyle and I know for sure if I was able to do it for a short time it would be just that, a short time. Good luck1
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tropicalchicy wrote: »Not everybody thinks so highly of it: https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/
Netflix "documentaries" are nothing but one-sided hack job propaganda pieces full of hype, fearmongering and pseudoscience. And this one is no exception.
I saw Pete Evens and immediately put it on my do not watch list.
I avoid anything by/promoted by the same "quack" who publishes recipes for paleo baby formula (which is actually harmful due to high levels of vitamin A in bone broth) and discourages the use of suncreen in a country with one of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world.
Okay rant over, feeling much better now
There was even talk of banning this in Australia because of the health risks it could cause. Paleo Pete is a celebrity chef and knows SAT about proper nutrition and science except for a bit of an online course somewhere.4 -
psychod787 wrote: »What ever happened to eating a balanced diet? Lol I won't lie, 2 years ago I would have fell for the horse kitten.
What is a balanced diet? Do we even know anymore?3 -
deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
Gosh it almost sounds like you’re saying a balanced diet with all things in moderation is healthy and there would be no need to adopt a keto lifestyle?23 -
tropicalchicy wrote: »Not everybody thinks so highly of it: https://synapses.co.za/the-magic-pill-pete-evans-does-documentary/
Netflix "documentaries" are nothing but one-sided hack job propaganda pieces full of hype, fearmongering and pseudoscience. And this one is no exception.
I saw Pete Evens and immediately put it on my do not watch list.
I avoid anything by/promoted by the same "quack" who publishes recipes for paleo baby formula (which is actually harmful due to high levels of vitamin A in bone broth) and discourages the use of suncreen in a country with one of the highest rates of skin cancer in the world.
Okay rant over, feeling much better now
100% agree. Pete Evans is a celebrity chef that pimps himself out to any product or program that fattens his bank account. Ironically, he has a pizza oven in his name...1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
Gosh it almost sounds like you’re saying a balanced diet with all things in moderation is healthy and there would be no need to adopt a keto lifestyle?
Almost is the key word. I don't think there is such a thing as a balanced diet, and I don't think ALL things in moderation is a good idea. I think for good health, some foods should be eaten more and some foods should be very limited and infrequent. People whose carbs are already lots of veggies and fruits (with very few refined and processed carbs along with meats, eggs, etc.) seldom need to improve their diet. It's the cutting of very processed and refined carbs which is often the most beneficial, IMO. Some, like me, cut carbs even more to address health issues or satiety issues.
If one does not have health issues or a problem with appetite control, why change what works? I've always been a fan of keto for health reasons first. The appetite suppressing effects are nice, but as has been pointed out in the past, not everybody experiences them.
Funnily enough, what I consider to be the definition of a "balanced" diet (meat, eggs, seafood, veggies, fruit, nuts, possibly dairy) are the exact same foods that are in a ketogenic diet. It is just the macro amounts that differ.
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Oh, not at all... they needed some sensationalist garbage to fill space and gross people out16 -
I've done more research since my last post and will share some info. My husband has Multiple Sclerosis. Dr. Terry Wahls is a supporter of Paleo / Keto diets (and has MS) . She went from wheelchair to riding a bicycle on the Paleo diet. We are tired of treating the symptoms, so we will do Keto diet for 6 weeks, then Paleo. If there is even a possibility that a diet change will help my husband, 'nuff said! I have always believed that if given the correct tools, the body will heal itself.15
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I have not seen the film, so can't comment on the quality of it.
I do a keto diet for migraine control and it is AMAZING. I was having migraines about 5 days a week and generally for 7-10 days straight when it was that fun time of the month - which is a miserable way to try to live and have any kind of quality of life. For a while I was able to control them with a gluten-free and vegan diet, which was very restrictive but at least calmed them down to a few days a couple times a month. Within a few days of switching to keto almost all of my migraines vanished. At the 100 day mark I stopped having migraines entirely, even when I would eat things that I knew were migraine triggers (like msg). Today is day 270, and I am still migraine free.
I have not lost any weight, and it has in fact made it a lot easier for me to gain weight - fat being a lot more calories than carbs/protein and I don't weigh food, I just eyeball it- weighing food is not sustainable for me and kudos to anyone who can manage that chore on a daily basis.
I like to drink and it has totally destroyed any tolerance for alcohol, which makes it a lot easier to get drunk, but also means I have to be super careful because one drink packs quite a punch these days.
In epileptic children the brain chemistry changes are permanent after 2 years...so, my goal is to keep this up for 2 years, then switch to a more standard low-carb. No one has studied the permanence in adults, and keto is only just starting to be used for migraines and other neurological conditions, so who knows if that will work, but I'll find out in about another 450 days or so.
I don't really want to eat like this forever...I love pasta and potatoes and rice...I miss them...but I have so much more quality of life without the migraines, if need be I certainly CAN eat this way forever, but I'm hopeful that after the 2 year mark I can increase carbs without the return of the dreaded migraines...time will tell.8 -
I've done more research since my last post and will share some info. My husband has Multiple Sclerosis. Dr. Terry Wahls is a supporter of Paleo / Keto diets (and has MS) . She went from wheelchair to riding a bicycle on the Paleo diet. We are tired of treating the symptoms, so we will do Keto diet for 6 weeks, then Paleo. If there is even a possibility that a diet change will help my husband, 'nuff said! I have always believed that if given the correct tools, the body will heal itself.
I hope a diet change helps your husband. One never knows until they try. Don't give up hope.
My interest in keto has always been health (neurological) related. I had lost already my weigh (non-keto) prior to beginning my neurological health related keto trial. Since my dystonia is one of these "no known cause, no known cure" types and there is a thought that some of it may be familial (versus genetic for my type of dystonia), the research related to Parkinson's has been of interest. I had an Aunt and a cousin (from a different aunt but same maternal side) who had Parkinson's. Both are now deceased. My Aunt's Parkinson's was incredibly slow to progress. 30-40 years maybe? My cousin's progressed much more rapidly from diagnosis. 10 years maybe? The upside of my CD/ST is it is not known to be progressive. I'm very fortunate in that respect and can't imagine the emotions that might be experienced if it were.
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deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.13 -
I've done more research since my last post and will share some info. My husband has Multiple Sclerosis. Dr. Terry Wahls is a supporter of Paleo / Keto diets (and has MS) . She went from wheelchair to riding a bicycle on the Paleo diet. We are tired of treating the symptoms, so we will do Keto diet for 6 weeks, then Paleo. If there is even a possibility that a diet change will help my husband, 'nuff said! I have always believed that if given the correct tools, the body will heal itself.
I don't see anything wrong with this approach, provided one doesn't stop taking the prescribed meds in favor of trying to heal completely through diet. Unless there's a medical reason not to go that route, I would certainly try any way of eating that showed promise for improving my issues. It's possible to experiment food-wise based on potential benefits without buying into the hype and hysteria.
I think people who watch a documentary that pushes a particular way of eating as the one true way should do themselves a favor and make sure they also watch the same type of documentary pushing the opposite.9 -
I am on a low carb diet myself.. but support ALL diets, because what works for one, may not work for another. I didn't watch this documentary, so not sure what they said, but from personal experience, I can honestly say that my weight loss was really good.. 130 pounds down.. My blood work looks great! I was borderline diabetic but with the LC diet, I have it under control (no longer borderline so LC works for me) and my blood work improved. Once I got through the induction phase, I no longer have cravings, so it really helps me stay on the plan. I eat lots of veggies, some fruits (mostly berries and melons).. I don't eat all the meat that I want.. Some people think LC dieters eat lots of meat and fat.. I don't do that.. I keep it a moderate amount.. I LOVE carbs but just can't seem to eat them without going overboard.. My only issue is I need to exercise more!! lol1
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janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.
I'm vegan. Personally, even without grains I wouldn't be low carbohydrate because I choose foods like vegetables, fruits, and beans. These supply more than enough carbohydrates to meet my energy and nutritional needs (I limited grains when I was losing weight because it was more challenging to fit them into my calorie goals and I didn't miss them much, I eat more now).
My point is that the low carbohydrate thing seems to be irrelevant to most people. If you can improve your health by avoiding consuming more energy than you need and eating more fruits and vegetables, why does keto need to be something that ordinary people should consider (as in argued in this film)?11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.
I'm vegan. Personally, even without grains I wouldn't be low carbohydrate because I choose foods like vegetables, fruits, and beans. These supply more than enough carbohydrates to meet my energy and nutritional needs (I limited grains when I was losing weight because it was more challenging to fit them into my calorie goals and I didn't miss them much, I eat more now).
My point is that the low carbohydrate thing seems to be irrelevant to most people. If you can improve your health by avoiding consuming more energy than you need and eating more fruits and vegetables, why does keto need to be something that ordinary people should consider (as in argued in this film)?
Oops. I didn't realize you were vegan. So no meats, eggs, or dairy. That's fairly restrictive too. As a keto'er, I just really limit sugar and grains. The only foods I avoid 100% is gluten containing foods due to celiac disease.
I do completely believe your carbs meet your energy and most of your nutritional needs (beyond B12 supplementation).
The film doesn't argue that keto is something all people need. It is something that can technically help most people in North America though, since more people now have issues with insulin resistance (prediabetes, diabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's; plus diseases directly affected by IR like CVD, high BP, and even some cancers) than do not. I don't think low carb is irrelevant to most. I believe the opposite - I think it could help most people. There are very few situations where trying it will hurt your health. I'm not sure that high carb diets can say the same for the majority anymore.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.
I'm vegan. Personally, even without grains I wouldn't be low carbohydrate because I choose foods like vegetables, fruits, and beans. These supply more than enough carbohydrates to meet my energy and nutritional needs (I limited grains when I was losing weight because it was more challenging to fit them into my calorie goals and I didn't miss them much, I eat more now).
My point is that the low carbohydrate thing seems to be irrelevant to most people. If you can improve your health by avoiding consuming more energy than you need and eating more fruits and vegetables, why does keto need to be something that ordinary people should consider (as in argued in this film)?
Oops. I didn't realize you were vegan. So no meats, eggs, or dairy. That's fairly restrictive too. As a keto'er, I just really limit sugar and grains. The only foods I avoid 100% is gluten containing foods due to celiac disease.
I do completely believe your carbs meet your energy and most of your nutritional needs (beyond B12 supplementation).
The film doesn't argue that keto is something all people need. It is something that can technically help most people in North America though, since more people now have issues with insulin resistance (prediabetes, diabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's; plus diseases directly affected by IR like CVD, high BP, and even some cancers) than do not. I don't think low carb is irrelevant to most. I believe the opposite - I think it could help most people. There are very few situations where trying it will hurt your health. I'm not sure that high carb diets can say the same for the majority anymore.
I feel about veganism the way (I believe) you feel about keto. While it is a restrictive diet by definition, I honestly don't miss anything (probably because I don't practice any additional restrictions like low fat, no oil, low sugar/no added sugar, or restriction of processed/refined foods). If I want something I have it, I just simply no longer desire foods of animal origin because they're ethically not acceptable to me.
I'm glad that the film doesn't recommend keto as something most people need to adopt. I was under the impression that it had a different message that it did -- that it argued for the widespread adoption of keto and spread the myth that consuming moderate or high amounts of carbohydrates was harmful in and of itself.
If you're arguing that a high carbohydrate diet will harm the majority of people -- regardless of what type of carbohydrates we're talking about -- I guess I'm going to be curious about what you're basing that statement on. Is there evidence to show this or it this a feeling that you have?4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.
I'm vegan. Personally, even without grains I wouldn't be low carbohydrate because I choose foods like vegetables, fruits, and beans. These supply more than enough carbohydrates to meet my energy and nutritional needs (I limited grains when I was losing weight because it was more challenging to fit them into my calorie goals and I didn't miss them much, I eat more now).
My point is that the low carbohydrate thing seems to be irrelevant to most people. If you can improve your health by avoiding consuming more energy than you need and eating more fruits and vegetables, why does keto need to be something that ordinary people should consider (as in argued in this film)?
Oops. I didn't realize you were vegan. So no meats, eggs, or dairy. That's fairly restrictive too. As a keto'er, I just really limit sugar and grains. The only foods I avoid 100% is gluten containing foods due to celiac disease.
I do completely believe your carbs meet your energy and most of your nutritional needs (beyond B12 supplementation).
The film doesn't argue that keto is something all people need. It is something that can technically help most people in North America though, since more people now have issues with insulin resistance (prediabetes, diabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's; plus diseases directly affected by IR like CVD, high BP, and even some cancers) than do not. I don't think low carb is irrelevant to most. I believe the opposite - I think it could help most people. There are very few situations where trying it will hurt your health. I'm not sure that high carb diets can say the same for the majority anymore.
I feel about veganism the way (I believe) you feel about keto. While it is a restrictive diet by definition, I honestly don't miss anything (probably because I don't practice any additional restrictions like low fat, no oil, low sugar/no added sugar, or restriction of processed/refined foods). If I want something I have it, I just simply no longer desire foods of animal origin because they're ethically not acceptable to me.
I'm glad that the film doesn't recommend keto as something most people need to adopt. I was under the impression that it had a different message that it did -- that it argued for the widespread adoption of keto and spread the myth that consuming moderate or high amounts of carbohydrates was harmful in and of itself.
If you're arguing that a high carbohydrate diet will harm the majority of people -- regardless of what type of carbohydrates we're talking about -- I guess I'm going to be curious about what you're basing that statement on. Is there evidence to show this or it this a feeling that you have?
I meant it while considering the number of people whose health is negatively affected by a diet high in carbs without any changes (dietary food types or calories). Most people tend to loosely follow government guidelines and eat around 50-60% carbs, often with plenty of processed and refined foods, and most people (mainly those into middle age and beyond, especially if overweight) have IR related health issues> High carb (including a diet with a fair bit of processed and refined carbs) may not be the best thing for their health. Carbs raise glucose and insulin which is not helpful to someone whose health has been negatively impacted due to IR.
If the average higher carb person continue to eat high carb but at a deficit, they may improve their IR as they lose weight, but in that situation it is the calorie deficit and not the higher carb diet that is helping their health.
If they are eating higher carb and their diet is very heavy in whole veggies and fruits with lots of fibre and low processed and refined carbs, then it may not (probably won't) create any health issues. If one switched to that type of diet after a diet high in processed and refined carbs, they may see some improvements like you would in a very low carb diet, but because dietary glucose raises BG and insulin, it may not improve their health to the same degree. Add in weight loss and that will help too, but again that is due to a calorie deficit and not the food.
Basically, I have seen no evidence that a diet rich in veggies and some fruit, with minimally processed and refined carbs, causes IR or any health problems like you would see in a diet with fewer whole foods. I'd eat that way if my stomach, current IR and health, appetite or food preferences could do it. So much of it tastes good - it would be very similar to what I eat now but with more plant variety. But like many others, I have some health issues now that just switching to more veggies and fruits (less fat) won't be helpful enough. I passed that point.9 -
I watched one called ‘the perfect human diet’ a while back as well and it made sense and that’s been the general approach I’ve been taking. It’s kind of paleo-like in terms of food intake. I just eat as much non-processed and natural fruits and vegetables I can get, and as much non-farmed fish (pref pacific salmon and halibut) and chicken/turkey as needed for my goals. I mix in some red meat too sometimes. I try to get hormone free and organic free range when I can, but can’t afford much. If I cut down meat I will likely have to find a good natural organic or at least antibiotic/hormone free protein supplement.
I try not to pay much attention to fad diets. I know where I went wrong the past four years and simply switching to general healthy eating described above with minimal exercise has me losing weight. As I increase my exercise I’m building muscle and losing fat. I’m probably gonna have to increase my caloric intake to avoid my body going into starvation mode and screwing with my long term metabolism. I’m meeting with a nutritionist this evening so hopefully she knows her job well.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »deannalfisher wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
Nina Teicholz is a journalist with no medical training what so ever...her educational background is undergrad in American Studies and a masters in Latin American studies....
Yes, she's a writer. Her book Big Fat Surprise was quite good.janejellyroll wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »Has anyone watched the Netflix doc “The Magic Pill”?
It’s a doc about the Keto diet and it’s anecdotal (it even uses the term anecdotal in the opening) health benefits. A very interesting and compelling documentary for sure. Albeit, I’m not jumping on the Keto train because of it haha.
Made me wonder who here has seen it (and what did you think)? And for those that follow a Keto diet do you do it for weight loss or for other supposed health benefits?
And the "Dr's" quoted aren't actual medical Dr's, they're authors who wrote books on how to keto. Conflict of interest much? You'll have to pry carbs out of my cold dead hands (since I'm too strong because of all the carbs I eat to be able to take them from me while I'm alive).
No. They seem to be ph.d scientists or medical doctors. There is Nina Teicholz (spelling?) who is an author, and then there is another journalist talking about the Dr Tim Noakes trial... I may have forgotten someone. Who called themselves a doctor but wasn't?
Really, the carbs they are talking about in the film were highly processed and refined carbs. People were still eating veggies and some fruits. No one advocated removing those from a diet.
People on keto typically have to limit their consumption of vegetables and fruits though and they're often avoiding or limiting even non-processed and refined carbohydrates like whole grains and beans. So if eating a higher level of carbohydrates is something that one finds useful or pleasant for satiety, reaching specific fitness goals, or enjoying how they taste, keto might not be the best fit.
That you can have some fruits and vegetables on keto doesn't change the fact that it's way too low for some of us to find pleasant, sustainable, or useful for fitness.
True. For many keto'ers they have no drop in vegetable consumption after dropping carbs because the bulk of their previous carbs were composed of breads, muffins, crackers, wraps, noodles, rice, sweets, some sweetened dairy products, etc. TBH, I think it is more the norm that someone who switches to keto is NOT reducing veggies and fruits; they may even be increasing it. Perhaps it is because those who are already eating a lot of whole veggies and fruits have less of a need for the health or appetite suppressing effects of keto since their diet is already quite healthful?
My diet is very high carbohydrate, including things like breads, pasta, and sweets, and there is still no version of keto (including vegan keto) where I would wind up eating more vegetables than I do now.
If people on keto do wind up increasing their fruit and vegetable consumption, it really makes me wonder if the health benefits reported by some have more to do with that than reducing carbohydrate consumption. Maybe morepeople should just focus on that instead of adopting a plan that requires limiting whole grains and beans, foods also associated with diet patterns that seem to promote health.
I think the veggie and fruit increases stem from following the old food pyramid with 6-12 servings of grains a day. If you cut that out, it leaves more room for veggies, meats, nuts and seeds.
If you want to create a large caloric deficit, cutting out grains and not replacing it, leaves you with a diet that is low carb, or closer to it depending on the fruits you choose.
You're vegetarian, I believe? You cut out meat. It makes sense that you eat more carbs (veggies, fruits and grains) than people who still include meat in their diets.
Increasing veggies and fruits means some other food is going to have to be reduced. I chose to limit grains because of my health issues and how my appetite works. Plus I believe they offer very little nutritional bang for my buck compared to veggies, nuts, and animal products. I cut my grains (and sugars).
My macro choice was health based. Not everybody needs to go low carb to feel their best.
I'm vegan. Personally, even without grains I wouldn't be low carbohydrate because I choose foods like vegetables, fruits, and beans. These supply more than enough carbohydrates to meet my energy and nutritional needs (I limited grains when I was losing weight because it was more challenging to fit them into my calorie goals and I didn't miss them much, I eat more now).
My point is that the low carbohydrate thing seems to be irrelevant to most people. If you can improve your health by avoiding consuming more energy than you need and eating more fruits and vegetables, why does keto need to be something that ordinary people should consider (as in argued in this film)?
Oops. I didn't realize you were vegan. So no meats, eggs, or dairy. That's fairly restrictive too. As a keto'er, I just really limit sugar and grains. The only foods I avoid 100% is gluten containing foods due to celiac disease.
I do completely believe your carbs meet your energy and most of your nutritional needs (beyond B12 supplementation).
The film doesn't argue that keto is something all people need. It is something that can technically help most people in North America though, since more people now have issues with insulin resistance (prediabetes, diabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, Alzheimer's; plus diseases directly affected by IR like CVD, high BP, and even some cancers) than do not. I don't think low carb is irrelevant to most. I believe the opposite - I think it could help most people. There are very few situations where trying it will hurt your health. I'm not sure that high carb diets can say the same for the majority anymore.
I feel about veganism the way (I believe) you feel about keto. While it is a restrictive diet by definition, I honestly don't miss anything (probably because I don't practice any additional restrictions like low fat, no oil, low sugar/no added sugar, or restriction of processed/refined foods). If I want something I have it, I just simply no longer desire foods of animal origin because they're ethically not acceptable to me.
I'm glad that the film doesn't recommend keto as something most people need to adopt. I was under the impression that it had a different message that it did -- that it argued for the widespread adoption of keto and spread the myth that consuming moderate or high amounts of carbohydrates was harmful in and of itself.
If you're arguing that a high carbohydrate diet will harm the majority of people -- regardless of what type of carbohydrates we're talking about -- I guess I'm going to be curious about what you're basing that statement on. Is there evidence to show this or it this a feeling that you have?
I meant it while considering the number of people whose health is negatively affected by a diet high in carbs without any changes (dietary food types or calories). Most people tend to loosely follow government guidelines and eat around 50-60% carbs, often with plenty of processed and refined foods, and most people (mainly those into middle age and beyond, especially if overweight) have IR related health issues> High carb (including a diet with a fair bit of processed and refined carbs) may not be the best thing for their health. Carbs raise glucose and insulin which is not helpful to someone whose health has been negatively impacted due to IR.
If the average higher carb person continue to eat high carb but at a deficit, they may improve their IR as they lose weight, but in that situation it is the calorie deficit and not the higher carb diet that is helping their health.
If they are eating higher carb and their diet is very heavy in whole veggies and fruits with lots of fibre and low processed and refined carbs, then it may not (probably won't) create any health issues. If one switched to that type of diet after a diet high in processed and refined carbs, they may see some improvements like you would in a very low carb diet, but because dietary glucose raises BG and insulin, it may not improve their health to the same degree. Add in weight loss and that will help too, but again that is due to a calorie deficit and not the food.
Basically, I have seen no evidence that a diet rich in veggies and some fruit, with minimally processed and refined carbs, causes IR or any health problems like you would see in a diet with fewer whole foods. I'd eat that way if my stomach, current IR and health, appetite or food preferences could do it. So much of it tastes good - it would be very similar to what I eat now but with more plant variety. But like many others, I have some health issues now that just switching to more veggies and fruits (less fat) won't be helpful enough. I passed that point.
I think most people don't follow government guidelines. Surveys conducted in Australia show very few reach recommended servings of fruit and vegetables a day and I would be surprised if the US was any different. Most don't eat enough whole grains and instead opt for refined. Their diets are largely processed foods. Keto has improved health markers on many but just upping fruit and vegetables with whole grains, reducing weight and exercising has helped many control and even reverse things like diabetes8 -
I agree that many think refined grains are their healthy grains. Many see "whole grain" bread and think they are doing great getting in their whole grains, but that's what the old food pyramids taught us. Most grains are refined when people eat them or they're fairly inedible, exceptions being corn and rice, plus a few others.
I don't think upping grains, fruits and veggies help diabetics unless you are replacing refined and processed carbs with those foods. Even then, it may not make a large difference. Carbs are still glucose and mist diabetics need to restrict them to some degree.
Exercise and weight loss dies usually improve diabetes. But I don't believe that switching one carb type for another will have the same benefit for someone with insulin resistance as reducing carbs would.6
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