Friend on plan with too few calories
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collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Oh--oh.......4 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
I was thinking, "that smells like a big pile of Fung."15 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
34 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
What's the relevance of him "healing" diabetes (not sure this is truthful, by the way)? There's nothing in the OP about the friend having that condition, is there?16 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
He doesnt have proper education for the field and his theories have been disproven for decades. Hense hes a quack.20 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Ok - here's an explanation... Fung believes that the body will store fat (and not burn it) if a person's insulin levels are elevated after eating, up to and including net fat storage when the person is in a deficit. That little gem of BS is more than enough to qualify him as a quack.18 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »If she has 60lbs of fat she can easily go on 2000kcals deficit without even losing muscle, so don't sweat it. Your body can use about ~35kcals per lb of body fat (74kcals/Kg) without having to break down muscle when on a caloric restriction diet that includes resistance training.
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
:noway:
This is just so much no all in one place.
OP, this "medical centre" is likely banking on a few things. 1) Your friend paid good money and is expecting quick results, they are pushing what gets fast results (not healthy). 2) People are notoriously bad at counting calories and they know her 900 is probably going to be at least 1200 (most likely). 3) If she fails at this, she will blame herself and not them, so she will be more likely to keep paying them.
all of this. ↑3 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Because type 2 diabetes is a chronic illness, and by its very definition cannot be cured/healed. You can go into remission if you *constantly* maintain certain nutritional levels, or go on medication, but you cannot cure it.
Don't believe that? Take a type 2 who has been following Fung's plan, and have them eat a SAD for a few months. See what happens.
If it were cured, wouldn't they no longer have the condition under any set of variables?
Anyone who claims you can cure diabetes is a shoddy practitioner.14 -
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collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Because type 2 diabetes is a chronic illness, and by its very definition cannot be cured/healed. You can go into remission if you *constantly* maintain certain nutritional levels, or go on medication, but you cannot cure it.
Anyone who claims you can cure diabetes is a shoddy practitioner.
Further, if you were "healed" you could go back to eating whatever you like. instead of following the Fung diet forever.
So, not a cure, maybe a non-pharmaceutical treatment.12 -
stanmann571 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Because type 2 diabetes is a chronic illness, and by its very definition cannot be cured/healed. You can go into remission if you *constantly* maintain certain nutritional levels, or go on medication, but you cannot cure it.
Anyone who claims you can cure diabetes is a shoddy practitioner.
Further, if you were "healed" you could go back to eating whatever you like. instead of following the Fung diet forever.
So, not a cure, maybe a non-pharmaceutical treatment.
Yup. Just edited to add that in.
1 -
kshama2001 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Apparently Fung tells his wife all the time he might be a quack.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10675505/nusi-circling-the-drain
That's actually Taubes, not Fung.2 -
I just read Taubes and Fung. Slowly backing out of this thread lol12
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I've heard that some dietitians and doctors recommend a lower calorie goal to compensate for inaccurate logging. They assume most people will eyeball portions and forget to log some things.
Even so - I don't agree with that practice and think that doctors should set their patients up for success by explaining how to log accurately and stick to a healthy goal.
This is pretty much what we were both thinking (she agreed that 900 is very low). The plan includes protein shakes, lean proteins, and veggies, which explains how they get it to so low. To the person who said medical pros aren't always right--agree entirely. I'm just saying it's really, really well-respected hospital, which was, in part, why I was so surprised. If I were in a similar situation and a medical professional told me to eat 900 calories, I wouldn't do it. And I'd demand my $$$ back. I'm going to ask her to show me ALL the materials they gave her.5 -
kshama2001 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Apparently Fung tells his wife all the time he might be a quack.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10675505/nusi-circling-the-drain
That's actually Taubes, not Fung.
Oops, having problems keeping track of quacks. Thanks!9 -
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SuzySunshine99 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Pipsqueak1965 wrote: »127 pounds of lean muscle mass? That sounds impossible to me?
Why? I don't know about the muscle part, but it certainly could be true for lean mass in general. If the friend needs to lose 60 pounds, I'll estimate that she's maybe 190 (could be higher, could be lower, of course.) If you then assume that the body fat is 30 percent, that takes you to 133 of lean mass.
I think we know what you mean, but people get caught up in the terminology. Our body weight is not a combination of only fat and muscle mass. We have bones, organs, fluids, etc, that would not be considered "lean mass". It's not the point of your post so it doesn't matter but I'm just giving you an explanation as to why people are questioning your statement.
This is why the scientific literature refers to Fat Mass (FM) and Fat-Free Mass (FFM), not "Lean Mass," to avoid this terminology confusion. It's probably a good idea to transition to this usage.
6 -
I have seen on that extreme weight loss show (where participants are trying to qualify for weight loss surgery - is it “my 600 pound life”?) that the doc will put his patients on a medically supervised diet of about 900 calories a day, and it’s supposed to be just protein and veggies. But those people are generally 500+ pounds, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone actually stick to the 900 calories.
So I guess it’s possible that a medical centre is recommending 900 calories...but whether they “should” or not is totally beyond me.
I watch this show and every episode I have seen he puts them on a 1200 calorie diet - never heard him say 900 calories/day.4 -
kshama2001 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »
But yeah that would put her in a starvation mode so she would propably be just better off doing water fasting to avoid that and keep that 127 lbs of lean masswhile burning the fat.
LOL. What now?
a) Starvation mode doesn't exist.
b) Water fasting in lieu of eating is just plain stupid.
Oh, and you forgot - if too few calories equals 'starvation mode' how does a water fast (i.e. zero calories) not equal the same thing?!?!?
When you are on a regular caloric restriction diet and eat a deficit your body adapts to that deficit. This happens by lowering you metabolic rate and reducing musclemass. This is a well known fact. When you water fast for a longer period of time the body does the opposite and the metabolic rate raises up to 22% due to the increase in noradrenaline levels after 3 days. After 4 days your body stops with the gluconeogenesis since you are in gull keto and starts to use your own fat storages to fuel you. Your hgh levels rest at 5 times at 5 day mark protecting your muscle and helping the lipolysis. This way your body gets 95% of its energy from fat and only 5% from muscle.
What is your source for this (not the AT, the rest of the stuff about fasting)?
The complete guide to fasting - Jason fung. You can find some of his lectures and interviews on YouTube and I recommend checking them out.
Well, that explains it. Fung's a quack.
Care to elaborate why you think a doctor healing people with level 2 diabetes for a living is a quack? Wanna make a solid argument and not resort to name calling like a child?
Apparently Fung tells his wife all the time he might be a quack.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10675505/nusi-circling-the-drain
That's actually Taubes, not Fung.
Oops, having problems keeping track of quacks. Thanks!
It's tough, when they are duck walking in circles. :laugh:3
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