Vegan/vegetarian! PLEASE READ AND RESPOND!

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  • SweetTooth68
    SweetTooth68 Posts: 169 Member
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    Hey super interesting topic. I am a cook for a summer camp and an middle school. One of my camp councilers is a Vegan, and one is a vegitarian. I was super curious aboul the honey/ eggs for my vegitarian guy. I have a small chicken flock in my back yard. Free range. They are pets and sit on our laps at the picnic table, they are loved and kept even after they stop layin eggs NEVER eaten (who could eat their pet?) ? He is a major animal rights guy and i dont want to "Ruffle any feathers" I have 3 meals a day i cook for him and i know he dosnt eat eggs because of the conditions on farms but he will eat cheese/milk could i suggest bringing in some of my ladies eggs?

    Just ask - everyone is different. I know devout vegans who will eat eggs from cruelty free situations like this, but others wont regardless simply because of what an egg actually is. I think the person will really appreciate your concern in asking!
  • krazybaconlady
    krazybaconlady Posts: 13
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    FACT: not eating meat can effect your frontal lobe. you need the nutrients.
  • emily_ylime597
    emily_ylime597 Posts: 9
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    been following this discussion...very interesting! i personally am a pescetarian, i do miss chicken in my diet from time to time but really no regrets about no longer eating meat. i have found that i simply no longer like the taste! i am currently considering eating vegan for a day or two per week, just to see how i do, and perhaps limiting my seafood intake (to conform more to a true lacto-ovo veggie) but i am overall happy with my current lifestyle :)

    @krazybaconlady: what nutrients do you get from meat that you cannot also find from other sources? protein? nope, soybeans, nuts, yogurt, etc have it. iron? any leafy green vegetable. name any nutrient. i guarantee it also comes from other sources. its only logical: animals get their nutrients ultimately from plants (cows/pigs/chickens eat grass/grains/seeds/etc), therefore when humans eat other animals we are getting the nutrients that they already received from the plants. plus, i think the fact that millions of people follow vegetarian and vegan lifestyles every day sort of proves that meat is not the sole source of necessary nutrients. if that were true, these millions of people would be either severely malnourished or dead. and since i have not yet seen that headline, i think it's safe to go off meat.

    by all means, if you love meat, continue eating it. its none of my business and i would never presume to think that i know what is best for you. all we are asking for is the same consideration.
  • VeganGal84
    VeganGal84 Posts: 938 Member
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    been following this discussion...very interesting! i personally am a pescetarian, i do miss chicken in my diet from time to time but really no regrets about no longer eating meat. i have found that i simply no longer like the taste! i am currently considering eating vegan for a day or two per week, just to see how i do, and perhaps limiting my seafood intake (to conform more to a true lacto-ovo veggie) but i am overall happy with my current lifestyle :)

    @krazybaconlady: what nutrients do you get from meat that you cannot also find from other sources? protein? nope, soybeans, nuts, yogurt, etc have it. iron? any leafy green vegetable. name any nutrient. i guarantee it also comes from other sources. its only logical: animals get their nutrients ultimately from plants (cows/pigs/chickens eat grass/grains/seeds/etc), therefore when humans eat other animals we are getting the nutrients that they already received from the plants. plus, i think the fact that millions of people follow vegetarian and vegan lifestyles every day sort of proves that meat is not the sole source of necessary nutrients. if that were true, these millions of people would be either severely malnourished or dead. and since i have not yet seen that headline, i think it's safe to go off meat.

    by all means, if you love meat, continue eating it. its none of my business and i would never presume to think that i know what is best for you. all we are asking for is the same consideration.

    I'm starting a slow, loud round of applause. :laugh: Thanks for this post, I was biting my tongue to say the same things.
  • songbyrdsweet
    songbyrdsweet Posts: 5,691 Member
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    been following this discussion...very interesting! i personally am a pescetarian, i do miss chicken in my diet from time to time but really no regrets about no longer eating meat. i have found that i simply no longer like the taste! i am currently considering eating vegan for a day or two per week, just to see how i do, and perhaps limiting my seafood intake (to conform more to a true lacto-ovo veggie) but i am overall happy with my current lifestyle :)

    @krazybaconlady: what nutrients do you get from meat that you cannot also find from other sources? protein? nope, soybeans, nuts, yogurt, etc have it. iron? any leafy green vegetable. name any nutrient. i guarantee it also comes from other sources. its only logical: animals get their nutrients ultimately from plants (cows/pigs/chickens eat grass/grains/seeds/etc), therefore when humans eat other animals we are getting the nutrients that they already received from the plants. plus, i think the fact that millions of people follow vegetarian and vegan lifestyles every day sort of proves that meat is not the sole source of necessary nutrients. if that were true, these millions of people would be either severely malnourished or dead. and since i have not yet seen that headline, i think it's safe to go off meat.

    by all means, if you love meat, continue eating it. its none of my business and i would never presume to think that i know what is best for you. all we are asking for is the same consideration.

    Well actually...millions of people ARE malnourished. It's one of the reasons why obesity, heart disease, and T2D are on the rise. Malnourished doesn't mean underweight, it just means your nutrient levels are wrong. I don't think I even have to add that ruminant animals like cows have 4 stomachs and an entirely different means of digestion from humans, so it makes no sense to say that we garner the same nutrition that they do from vegetables. There are good ways and good reasons and good justifications to eat vegetarian/vegan, but these aren't it IMO.
  • heathersmilez
    heathersmilez Posts: 2,579 Member
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    what nutrients do you get from meat that you cannot also find from other sources?

    You cannot get B12 from other sources but last time I checked, B12 was in very unique meats such as liver and kidney while chicken, fish and beef weren't even on the list so I'm not worried yet since it appears I'm getting the same amount of B12 as I did when I ate meat.
  • veganbaum
    veganbaum Posts: 1,865 Member
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    B12 - from the reading I have done, my understanding is that B12 used to be consumed through vegetables grown in rich soil, but because soil has been so depleted we can no longer get what we as humans need from it. If you have a good store built up from before going vegan, for some people it could take years before they are deficient, for others it might happen more quickly. It's best just to take a B12 supplement - and a sublingual one that will be more quickly absorbed.
  • heathersmilez
    heathersmilez Posts: 2,579 Member
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    B12 - from the reading I have done, my understanding is that B12 used to be consumed through vegetables grown in rich soil, but because soil has been so depleted we can no longer get what we as humans need from it. If you have a good store built up from before going vegan, for some people it could take years before they are deficient, for others it might happen more quickly. It's best just to take a B12 supplement - and a sublingual one that will be more quickly absorbed.

    Thanks!
  • DeBlue
    DeBlue Posts: 254 Member
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    Many people who embrace a veggie lifestyle do it in stages. Some may give up beef and other furry animals first, which is what I did some thirty years ago. Next came the poultry. I have never looked back and the transition this far was not hard at all. My hold-out has been an occasional dinner of fish because eating out with friends was just too impossible otherwise. So this makes me a pescetarian in the technical sense. See I learned something today.

    The best comment I read here was the reference to the teen-vegetarian diet that includes french fries, etc. Hillarious! I am guilty and this accounts for why I had to come on this site. :devil: Thankfully I've been inspired by great people on MFP and have been able to drop a lot of weight and have my goal finally in sight.

    It does matter WHAT you eat. Be inspired by the veggies and fruits and natural foods with real nutrition. Your body will love you for it.
  • Kerry5524
    Kerry5524 Posts: 6 Member
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    Loving this topic x
  • kippit
    kippit Posts: 78
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    FACT: not eating meat can effect your frontal lobe. you need the nutrients.

    ....cuz there's no nutrients at ALL in vegetables.....
  • Kalrez
    Kalrez Posts: 655 Member
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    i dont understand why anyone would want to be a vegitarian? i love meat!!!! your supposed to eat meat... ugh... your choice i just personally think its stupid

    Welcome, Troll! While it is generally advised that I not feed you, I'm gonna be a silly goose and do so anyway.

    You love meat. You enjoy the taste and texture. That's cool. I've never been a huge fan, to be honest. Even as a kid, I would focus more on the veggies over the meat. I've never been able to eat meat off a bone. It weirds me out. On my cruise a few years ago, I've tried beef wellington. It's supposed to be an amazing dish, but it just tasted like a regular ol' steak. So I just figured if I didn't really like meat, then why keep eating it? While some of my vegetarian inclinations are driven by animal welfare, I'm mostly motivated by my ambivalence toward meat dishes.

    I have been swayed by the siren call of well cooked BBQ, though. Not even gonna lie. Luckily for me, I live in Ohio where people are BBQ noobs, so that only happens when I go home to see my family in the South.
  • Lolamako
    Lolamako Posts: 89 Member
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    I see that Vegetarianism and Veganism are being used fairly interchangeably and treated as though they are very similar, when really they are BY DEFINITION not.

    Veganism is a WHOLE lifestyle about REDUCING suffering. I do not enjoy cross contamination, or eating something that isn't Vegan by mistake, but Veganism is not about personal purity. I follow the definition of Vegan, and abstain from all animal products as much as possible. Unlike with Vegetarians, there are not levels of Veganism, either you are or are making a solid effort to be, or you're not. I don't mind someone saying they are trying to be Vegan, but to say they are, when they have some fish from time to time, is wrong.

    You cannot be a Vegan for health reasons. Would you not buy leather shoes for health reasons? If you enjoy a "Vegan Diet" than in fact you are a "Strict Vegetarian" You can eat Vegetarian for your health, where as if you are Vegan, the health benefits are a nice side effect :)

    If you want to plow your own path, then go ahead and do so, do what works for you! you don't have to have a label, but for me calling myself Vegan is sending a CLEAR message about what that entails. I would never say to a woman who was saving herself for marriage "Oh I'm a Virgin too! I just have sex on Saturdays" Ya know what I mean?

    Alllllllll that being said, I'm stoked some many on here are open to reducing or eliminating animal products from their diet.

    I've been Vegan for 9.5 years. I went Vegan overnight, and missed foods I was used to very much, for a very long time. I've found so many other foods I wouldn't have ever tried, let alone enjoyed, and the health benefits have been wonderful. I always had cramping and bloating in the mornings and when I stopped eating dairy that all went away.

    Now is a great time to be Vegan, or Strict Vegetarian, there are lots of (maybe not the healthiest) "transitional" foods that mimic animal based ones so that you don't feel deprived. I always joke I could easily be a 300lb Vegan, I'm not deprived AT ALL.

    And now to bring up that chick, I don't even know her name; I compare getting upset with people like that with getting upset with someone who is mentally disabled. They are incapable at this time of comprehending anything you say the way an able minded person would. I don't hold them to the same standards as everyone else. Maybe she'll be different in a year, or five or tomorrow? Who knows. I'm gonna leave her be for now, and hope that someday she's a better person than she is showing us now.
  • arewethereyet
    arewethereyet Posts: 18,702 Member
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    I have cleaned up the thread and unlocked it.

    PLEASE do not attack each other. If someone posts something against the rules, report it.

    Do not attack or insult others on this or any other thread.

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    Arewethereyet
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  • NeverTry
    NeverTry Posts: 26 Member
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    I consider myself a vegetarian, and as a person who eats no carcass, and tries to eat as animal free as possible, (A good blue cheese is my weakness!) I do find it a little annoying when people call themselves vegetarian when they eat fish and or chicken etc.

    My main reason for this is it leads to confusion. For example. My mum plays midweek ladies tennis with a woman who identifies herself as being a vegetarian, then she comes home and tells me that i can eat fish cos 'the vegetarian at tennis does'.

    I feel at the very basest level, being a vegetarian, by definition, should exclude consuming the flesh of an animal.. right???

    I know this is kind of off OP topic. But this is also a little bit of a con for me. Having to explain it, and separate myself from flesh eaters all the time, which i thought the title of vegetarian explained..
  • Bean5
    Bean5 Posts: 84 Member
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    I've been Pescatarian about 3 years. However, I mainly eat fish when I am out or traveling; at home I eat mainly vegetarian, and I find that as I eat healthy real food--that's not just constant soy 'meat replacement', a lot of that food tends to be vegan. There are plenty of bean and rice recipes, chili recipes, soup recipes, etc. that are vegan that are easy to have in your recipe rotation. Instead of topping/finishing dishes with cheese, you sprinkle them with green onions or cilantro or toasted cashews/peanuts/pine nuts/etc. There are decent tofu recipes as well, although I'm concerned about eating tons of it.

    I still get a good part (probably 25-35%) of my daily protein from low-fat dairy, so replacing all of that on a daily basis with other protein would take additional effort. Although it does get tedious having people ask you constantly about your protein intake, certainly protein is important and you need to pay attention to that nutrient even more if you decide to go vegan. Yes, you will also need a b12 supplement. But then again, the fact you are thinking about this means that you are already paying more attention to your food than most. I use MFP to keep track of calories and protein. It's a nice thing to be able to count UP to the protein you need for the day versus constantly counting down the calories you have left!

    I think the important thing is finding the right way to eat for you, not finding the right label. I find some people call me Vegetarian, and because I know a few Vegatarians I always feel compelled to clarify "but not really because I eat fish". Then people ask me why a Vegetarian thinks it's ok to eat fish! lol I'm glad the Pescatarian label is getting more common, because for a while there I just felt pretentious using it.
    At the core of my diet is an effort to eat healthy, and because they way I eat is not based on religion, I also try to be flexible. Good luck with your decision.
  • jessradtke
    jessradtke Posts: 418 Member
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    I think the important thing is finding the right way to eat for you, not finding the right label.

    I could not agree with this more. It took me a long time, but I finally got to the point where the labels don't matter to me, and it's very freeing. I'm not all caught up in constantly explaining or defending the way I eat (or any of my other choices) anymore. Rather than making choices based on whether they fit the label I'm trying to define myself with, I'm free to make choices that make the most sense to me at that moment and are the most in alignment with my moral and ethical aspirations at that time. I take so much more into consideration when I make choices nowdays than I did in the days when all I asked was "Is it vegan?" In some ways, being vegan was easier because I could just follow the rules that I chose to follow and didn't have to question too much. Choices are more complicated and thought provoking nowdays, but at the same time less constricting and guilt inducing. The weird thing is, no matter what choices I make, other people still insist on labeling me a certain way. I have given up trying to educate other people about the differences though because, quite frankly, most of them just don't care. In my experience, most people who eat meat every day will label anyone who doesn't a "vegetarian". They don't care about the subtleties, and no amount of me yammering at them will make them care. It's so much easier to just say "no thank you" when someone offers me something I don't want to eat, and let it go.

    For the OP and anyone else who is thinking about transitioning to a more plant based diet, these are some of my favorite recipe books from various points in my life. All of these are ones I still use on a regular basis.

    Delights of the Garden by Imar Hutchins (no-cook vegetarian, mostly raw)

    Raw Foods Made Easy for 1 or 2 People by Jennifer Cornbleet (I have lots of raw foods books, but this one is my fave)

    Vegetable Love by Barbara Kafka (HUGE book - not totally veg, but lots of veg friendly recipes, great for people who want to add more veggies to their diet)

    Supermarket Vegan by Donna Klein (one of my favorite go-to recipe books, love the simple recipes)

    The Mediterranean Vegan Kitchen by Donna Klein (I really like her books because they are based on whole foods, not cans and boxes)

    Vegan Delights by Jeanne Marie Martin (my all-time favorite vegan recipe book. It's seriously falling apart.)

    The Uncheese Cookbook by Joanne Stepaniak (I do eat some raw milk cheese from a local farm nowdays, but I still love some of the recipes in this book. Great for transitioning away from dairy.)

    Vegetarian Soups for All Seasons by Nava Atlas (soup and bread is the ultimate comfort food IMO)

    Cooking the Whole Foods Way by Christina Pirello (macrobiotic and pescatarian friendly, though I can't vouch for the fish recipes since I didn't eat fish)

    The Natural Gourmet by Annemarie Colbin (macrobiotic and pescetarian friendly, ditto on the fish)
  • widmar
    widmar Posts: 72
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    If you aren't vegetarian already, you might want to go vegetarian first before even attempting vegan. Most people who try to go "cold turkey" end up binging within a few weeks. ANY drastic diet change is difficult, but completely giving up entire food groups overnight will likely cause problems.

    There are healthy vegetarian/vegan diets and unhealthy ones. If you want to go veg but eat lots of french fries, chips, pizza, veggie burgers, and stuff like that (what I call the "teen vegetarian diet" because I see it the most in teens), I think it's pretty obvious that it's not really any healthier than the standard American diet. If you change your diet to include lots more veggies, fruits and legumes, you will be healthier whether you decide to be veg or not. For that reason, I recommend that people who think they want to go veg start by simply eating LESS meat and dairy and MORE whole, plant based foods. Concentrate on making your diet HEALTHIER first then adjust the animal based parts to the point YOU are comfortable with.

    Don't feel like you have to follow someone else's definition of vegetarianism or veganism. Some vegetarians and vegans worry about things like gelatin and honey while others don't. I've known some vegans who were so strict that they wouldn't even go see a movie because film is made with gelatin! It can get really crazy and borderline OCD if you try to be too strict about it. Again...you only have to take it as far as YOU are comfortable.

    If you really want to go veg, don't let the "you won't get enough nutrients/protein/calcium/whatever" crowd scare you. Not all vegans or vegetarians have that problem. I was either vegan or vegetarian (mostly vegan) for decades and never had a single issue. Eat a wide variety of whole foods and don't be overly strict about your food choices and you are less likely to have issues.

    I have thought about this also and this is the way I would do it. I know if I go cold turkey it wouldn't work for me.
    This post is right-on for me.
  • nygiantschick
    nygiantschick Posts: 289 Member
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    I went vegan cold turkey (pun intended) and had no problems or ill affects at all. I ate burgers, chcken, eggs, fish, etc prior to that and I still found the transition to be relatively easy. Now, I eat no cheese, milk, meat, fish, etc. and I limit my soy consumption to just a couple of times a week. The bulk of my meals are fruits and vegetables, whole grains, beans, nuts, etc. I still eat vegan versions of my favorites like veggie burritos, cheese less pizza (on my own homemade crust), and sandwiches (marinated/grilled veggies with olive tapenade, vinegar, etc). I think once you make the mental connection, the actual act of doing it is not so hard. Whatever your decision, just be sure it is healthy and the best option for YOU and your lifestyle and don't let others try to pressure you into a decision either way!!!

    In health and happiness.
  • remibaxter
    remibaxter Posts: 1
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    I have been ovo-lacto vegetarian for 20+ years (and live in Nebraska). My friends and co-workers know I'm vegetarian and are very supportive and really the topic almost never comes up. I can obviously always find something to eat or I wouldn't be on this site :) I never liked meat or fish growing up but everyone in my family ate it. With each of my pregnancies I couldn't eat meat (it repulsed me) and I finally quit it altogether when I had my third child, 21 years ago. I have never missed it!

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