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Starting Lyle McDonald's Ultimatte Diet 2.0 question

LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
Good afternoon! I am really pumped to begin Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 come August 1.

However, I know that the recommended body fat percentage to start this program is 15% . I am a male and not at 15%.....more like 20% - 22%!

Does it make sense to start that program (UD2.0) of does it make sense to get down to the 15% number and then start the UD2.0?

I would love to hear people's ideas *AND* would really love to hear from those who have done this (UD2.0).

Thanks, y'all!

PS> I put this post initially in another forum last night and someone suggested to move it here. So, here it is!
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Replies

  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    I haven't run it but from what I've heard it is more of an intense calorie/carb cycling diet. I believe you can make it more or less aggressive, but I think the reasoning behind not doing it until you are fairly lean is because it is not necessary to do all that work at higher fat levels, but comes in handy at the more elite bodybuilding lean getting even ultra leaner category. Basically when the small things start to count.

    But I'm sure you could give it a go especially since you have the experience.

    Would you go out of keto for it then?

    Paging @psuLemon since he would be the best person to ask about ud2
  • steveko89steveko89 Member Posts: 2,123 Member Member Posts: 2,123 Member
    I'd been musing about starting something like UD2 recently and read through the PDF just yesterday. Ultimately, my big takeaway was that carb-cycling looks to make things a little more complicated than I prefer. However, I am curious what the community has to say about it.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    I haven't run it but from what I've heard it is more of an intense calorie/carb cycling diet. I believe you can make it more or less aggressive, but I think the reasoning behind not doing it until you are fairly lean is because it is not necessary to do all that work at higher fat levels, but comes in handy at the more elite bodybuilding lean getting even ultra leaner category. Basically when the small things start to count.

    But I'm sure you could give it a go especially since you have the experience.

    Would you go out of keto for it then?

    Paging @psuLemon since he would be the best person to ask about ud2

    Thank you, Stephanie, for the reply. I knew that there were one or two guys here who have done this....are doing this. I just could not remember who! Now I know! :-)

    Yes - I would very definitely go out of Ketosis as the grams of fat consumed in UD2.0 are very low. Typically in the 30g - 50g range. I usually get about 145g of Protein and 170g of Fat each day (correct....little to no carbs). I am not opposed to trying something *different*. And, I do enjoy playing with nutrition and seeing how my body responds. And, I really would like to have that dang six-pack [more for me and the accomplishment than anything else....no worries, not thinking that my world is going to dramatically improve because of 10% body fat and awesome abs....shoot, I am still the same crusty old fart! That ain't gonna change! :-)].

    I will patiently await Mr. Lemon (Ha! I have always wanted to say that).

    And, I will likely run this.....but really would like some input from people who have run it.

  • Diatonic12Diatonic12 Member Posts: 32,347 Member Member Posts: 32,347 Member
  • mmapagsmmapags Member Posts: 8,953 Member Member Posts: 8,953 Member
    Its really designed for those with lower BF trying to get ripped looking. Not that you won't benefit from it but it's not an easy protocol.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    Its really designed for those with lower BF trying to get ripped looking. Not that you won't benefit from it but it's not an easy protocol.

    I like to challenge myself and dont really like "easy". I am very interested. I do appreciate everyone replying. Please dont think that I dont.
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    I would just recommend you have the book/PDF, Lyle knows his stuff but you really need to read it all to get the most out of it. Are you are going to run the workout program too, I believe they go hand in hand.

    What would be your reason to do this, is your current diet not giving you the results/adherence you would like? Do you feel like you are missing something? Do you just want a challenge? Just curious. I do some calorie cycling but it is really loose and not strict/structured at all. I am not anywhere near elite so this works, for me at least.

    Keep us posted on how it goes. I love to hear people's experiences with different things and how it compares to what they were doing before.
  • dozenmonkeyzdozenmonkeyz Member Posts: 150 Member Member Posts: 150 Member
    I haven't run UD2 but am pretty familiar with it and a bunch of LM's work. You'll probably get better info and feedback from his forums or FB pages; tons of folks there that have used his methods and even posted progress logs for review. Most of what I read indicated using his RFL to reduce BF down to 15% or less before using UD2 so that's the route I took. Never got 15% (my fault, certainly not the program), so I never got to UD2. But everyone should read the data and make their own decision on what suits them best. Have fun with the research, it's definitely insightful stuff!
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    I would just recommend you have the book/PDF, Lyle knows his stuff but you really need to read it all to get the most out of it. Are you are going to run the workout program too, I believe they go hand in hand.

    What would be your reason to do this, is your current diet not giving you the results/adherence you would like? Do you feel like you are missing something? Do you just want a challenge? Just curious. I do some calorie cycling but it is really loose and not strict/structured at all. I am not anywhere near elite so this works, for me at least.

    Keep us posted on how it goes. I love to hear people's experiences with different things and how it compares to what they were doing before.

    So, lots of good questions! I will purchase the book (would not think about doing this without it....everything that I have read so far STRONGLY states having the book available at all times). I will also run the workout with the diet. I agree - the two go hand-in-hand! Again, everything that I have read STRONGLY suggests this.

    I really enjoy Keto. I enjoy all of the benefits (for me) and would be just as happy to stay on this course. But....

    So, my reasoning? Good question.

    Honestly, I like to try new things (in terms of nutrition and training). I like a challenge. This is supposed to be really difficult and that is right up my alley. I am no where near elite, either! A lot further from it than you are. And I think that this could be the kick in the *pants* that I need.

    More honestly, this is going to be a mental challenge. Yes, my body is going to die (I have researched this "program" enough to know that it is not for the faint of heart....or body....or mind). I am interested in the mental challenge. Not really challenged in other areas of my life. This would fill that need. I am not kidding when I say that I do not like "easy".

    And, with someone whom I trust (like Lyle McDonald) I will have no problem to trust the process. That will make things a little bit easier.

    And, folks - here is my promise. Making this very public and this is huge for me....

    When I do this....I will post pics. For anyone out there who knows me....me being photographed is something usually associated with broken | smashed cameras. I am not one who likes to be photographed. Yet alone post pics. So, putting that out there......Will have - at worst - weekly pics posted. Dang it! I said it...now I have to do it! There ya go!
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    Sounds good!

    I hear you. I know that feeling of challenging yourself. Especially if you aren't new to dieting and have experience, and you want to see where you can take things and your results. Nothing wrong with that!

    I am excited to hear you will post pics! Will be very interested in your results !!! Good luck :)
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Sounds good!

    I hear you. I know that feeling of challenging yourself. Especially if you aren't new to dieting and have experience, and you want to see where you can take things and your results. Nothing wrong with that!

    I am excited to hear you will post pics! Will be very interested in your results !!! Good luck :)

    You have not seen the starting pics yet! You might VERY QUICKLY change your mind! LOL! Anyway, getting over that and manning up and just gonna do it. I mean, why the heck not? One way or another....it is happening!
  • Keto_VampireKeto_Vampire Member Posts: 1,679 Member Member Posts: 1,679 Member
    Have tried UD2 for a brief period; just did not like the drastic dietary inconsistencies (carbohydrate refeeds). Nothing problematic with low kcal days, but you may have a completely different subjective like/dislike.
    Experiment away...
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,735 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,735 MFP Moderator
    Some quick comments but i will also provide a more detailed discussion later.

    My biggest concern is that its going to adversely your medical issues.

    I just started to run a full cycle. I had two weeks of playing around with the diet and programmed my workout. I am starting at 18-20%. I recognize Lyle McDonald believes in doing this while you are lean, but i believe its driven by the fact that he believes in doing the most simple program until your body becomes a bit more resistant to losing more weight.

    I aim for 50g on keto days and 400g + of carb load days; the latter would be my concern for you. My workouts are brutual and they make me want to cry. The low carb days are *kitten* brutual and make me want to cry... See the theme? But the structure is making me compliant.

    Eta: i eat 1500-1700 on keto days and try to hit 3000 on high carb.. give or take... The biggest thing is trying to hit 16g/kg of weight (~1000g in 40 hours).

    ETA2: the big question is can you also do the workouts?
    edited July 2018
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Some quick comments but i will also provide a more detailed discussion later.

    My biggest concern is that its going to adversely your medical issues.

    I just started to run a full cycle. I had two weeks of playing around with the diet and programmed my workout. I am starting at 18-20%. I recognize Lyle McDonald believes in doing this while you are lean, but i believe its driven by the fact that he believes in doing the most simple program until your body becomes a bit more resistant to losing more weight.

    I aim for 50g on keto days and 400g + of carb load days; the latter would be my concern for you. My workouts are brutual and they make me want to cry. The low carb days are *kitten* brutual and make me want to cry... See the theme? But the structure is making me compliant.

    Eta: i eat 1500-1700 on keto days and try to hit 3000 on high carb.. give or take... The biggest thing is trying to hit 16g/kg of weight (~1000g in 40 hours).

    ETA2: the big question is can you also do the workouts?

    I was awaiting your reply....so, thank you very much for answering.

    I am also interested in how the big carb days will affect me. Kinda why I am not doing this yet. Kinda why I posted this question. I am not worried one bit about the training sessions. I have puked in the gym several times before....people would not be surprised. I would not do squats or dead lifts - but I would find alternative exercises in their places. But, the carb thing.....I am still pumped about this....but the carb thing. That is the theme that I see! :-)

    I would love to read the more detailed discussion | engage in more detailed discussion. I would owe you big time. Not empty words....
  • moogie_fitmoogie_fit Member, Premium Posts: 276 Member Member, Premium Posts: 276 Member
    @LiftHeavyThings27105 I would like to add while I don't know anything about this diet, if your currently doing keto, you will not likely get six pack abs. This is because your muscle glycogen is depleted and you will lack a "pump" you get from carbs and exercise. I really think you would benefit from carbs if you want to see more definition in your muscles as carbs will bring water into your muscles. (But weight may go up)
    edited July 2018
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    moogie_fit wrote: »
    @LiftHeavyThings27105 I would like to add while I don't know anything about this diet, if your currently doing keto, you will not likely get six pack abs. This is because your muscle glycogen is depleted and you will lack a "pump" you get from carbs and exercise. I really think you would benefit from carbs if you want to see more definition in your muscles as carbs will bring water into your muscles. (But weight may go up)

    I have been thinking - after getting SUPER pumped about this - that it might not be the best idea for me, @moogie_fit!

    Last week I did a test and ate a box of cereal (yes, the whole freaking box!) and things did not go so well for me. I am doing Keto because of high A1C and carbs affect me a little bit differently from the way they do most people. Sucks to be me (well, pretty much only in this context!).

    But, come heck or high water I am going to be doing something come August 1. I have not abondoned this idea completely (of doing the UD2.0).....just re-thinking it.

    But, concept is still very much alive. The vehicle is the only thing - potentially - that will change.
    edited July 2018
  • annaskiskiannaskiski Member Posts: 1,212 Member Member Posts: 1,212 Member
    My favorite line from that reddit referenced above..

    "I think you need to be in a demented state of mind to read the book and think, "yes, yes, this is definitely a good idea"
    "
  • annaskiskiannaskiski Member Posts: 1,212 Member Member Posts: 1,212 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    I would just recommend you have the book/PDF, Lyle knows his stuff but you really need to read it all to get the most out of it. Are you are going to run the workout program too, I believe they go hand in hand.

    What would be your reason to do this, is your current diet not giving you the results/adherence you would like? Do you feel like you are missing something? Do you just want a challenge? Just curious. I do some calorie cycling but it is really loose and not strict/structured at all. I am not anywhere near elite so this works, for me at least.

    Keep us posted on how it goes. I love to hear people's experiences with different things and how it compares to what they were doing before.

    So, lots of good questions! I will purchase the book (would not think about doing this without it....everything that I have read so far STRONGLY states having the book available at all times). I will also run the workout with the diet. I agree - the two go hand-in-hand! Again, everything that I have read STRONGLY suggests this.

    I really enjoy Keto. I enjoy all of the benefits (for me) and would be just as happy to stay on this course. But....

    So, my reasoning? Good question.

    Honestly, I like to try new things (in terms of nutrition and training). I like a challenge. This is supposed to be really difficult and that is right up my alley. I am no where near elite, either! A lot further from it than you are. And I think that this could be the kick in the *pants* that I need.

    More honestly, this is going to be a mental challenge. Yes, my body is going to die (I have researched this "program" enough to know that it is not for the faint of heart....or body....or mind). I am interested in the mental challenge. Not really challenged in other areas of my life. This would fill that need. I am not kidding when I say that I do not like "easy".

    And, with someone whom I trust (like Lyle McDonald) I will have no problem to trust the process. That will make things a little bit easier.

    And, folks - here is my promise. Making this very public and this is huge for me....

    When I do this....I will post pics. For anyone out there who knows me....me being photographed is something usually associated with broken | smashed cameras. I am not one who likes to be photographed. Yet alone post pics. So, putting that out there......Will have - at worst - weekly pics posted. Dang it! I said it...now I have to do it! There ya go!

    Please do keep us updated.
    I love when OTHER people do the tough experiments... :)
    edited July 2018
  • annaskiskiannaskiski Member Posts: 1,212 Member Member Posts: 1,212 Member
    Can someone post a sample workout?
  • livingleanlivingcleanlivingleanlivingclean Member Posts: 11,755 Member Member Posts: 11,755 Member
    moogie_fit wrote: »
    @LiftHeavyThings27105 I would like to add while I don't know anything about this diet, if your currently doing keto, you will not likely get six pack abs. This is because your muscle glycogen is depleted and you will lack a "pump" you get from carbs and exercise. I really think you would benefit from carbs if you want to see more definition in your muscles as carbs will bring water into your muscles. (But weight may go up)

    I have been thinking - after getting SUPER pumped about this - that it might not be the best idea for me, @moogie_fit!

    Last week I did a test and ate a box of cereal (yes, the whole freaking box!) and things did not go so well for me. I am doing Keto because of high A1C and carbs affect me a little bit differently from the way they do most people. Sucks to be me (well, pretty much only in this context!).

    But, come heck or high water I am going to be doing something come August 1. I have not abondoned this idea completely (of doing the UD2.0).....just re-thinking it.

    But, concept is still very much alive. The vehicle is the only thing - potentially - that will change.

    If you want to do something extreme, but don't think the UD works for you due to all the carbs why not consider the RFL?

    Im doing it in blocks: 2 weeks on, with one refeed/free meal in the middle, then a 1 week break....I've nearly finished the first "block" and didn't find the first 2 weeks overly painful
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