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Starting Lyle McDonald's Ultimatte Diet 2.0 question

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  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    moogie_fit wrote: »
    @LiftHeavyThings27105 I would like to add while I don't know anything about this diet, if your currently doing keto, you will not likely get six pack abs. This is because your muscle glycogen is depleted and you will lack a "pump" you get from carbs and exercise. I really think you would benefit from carbs if you want to see more definition in your muscles as carbs will bring water into your muscles. (But weight may go up)

    I have been thinking - after getting SUPER pumped about this - that it might not be the best idea for me, @moogie_fit!

    Last week I did a test and ate a box of cereal (yes, the whole freaking box!) and things did not go so well for me. I am doing Keto because of high A1C and carbs affect me a little bit differently from the way they do most people. Sucks to be me (well, pretty much only in this context!).

    But, come heck or high water I am going to be doing something come August 1. I have not abondoned this idea completely (of doing the UD2.0).....just re-thinking it.

    But, concept is still very much alive. The vehicle is the only thing - potentially - that will change.

    If you want to do something extreme, but don't think the UD works for you due to all the carbs why not consider the RFL?

    Im doing it in blocks: 2 weeks on, with one refeed/free meal in the middle, then a 1 week break....I've nearly finished the first "block" and didn't find the first 2 weeks overly painful

    Honestly, that has been sounding more and more interesting the more I look at it. And.....I am past the "let's get hyped" point and actually using my brain (the reason side)...

    I wouldn't be that excited... Its even more crazy than UD2.

    Ha! I really like "crazy, bat s**t" stuff! Not people....stuff! The guy from powerliftingtowin.com did a RFL regime and he seemed to really like it. I follow him and have a lot of respect for him...so, he was quite positive. I am going to sleep on it and will very likely decide tomorrow.

    Thanks, everyone! It is nice to know that others are thinking the same thing that I am. :-)

    Yea I've heard RFL is brutal. I did 4 days fairly aggressive high protein and I wanted to fall over. Also my muscles looked so flat I almost thought I lost them! But when I added carbs back they popped again (phew!)

    I actually purchased the Extremely Rapid Fat Loss program from Lyle McDonald's web site (for a whopping $5) and loved it. I did that last week...Friday I want to say (so, ran that Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday). But, remember Stephanie, I do Keto so no carbs (and this was 100% Protein....glad that I LOVE tuna!!!) is not really anything new or weird to me. That is pretty much everyday. :-)

    Folks - I am ABSOLUTELY going to do the RFL Program. To the best of my knowledge, there is no "Thursday - HUGE CARB DAY" like in the UD 2.0 Program. So, unless there is some other mitigating factor of which I am unaware (but will find out when I purchase the program) then I am all-in! For the win (and, maybe that elusive 6-pack abs that I have NEVER had in my life....why not for the first time at 51, right?).....

    It wasn't so much the low carbs, I was fine with that (except how they made me look) but the low calories. And it was so bland and boring. Most of my day was tuna, boiled chicken, whey.. repeat. It was only 4 days. I can't imagine doing that longer term!!

    Anyhow good luck! Please keep us posted on your progress.

    Well, I am a bit off - so this will be okay. I like the same things, day-in and day-out. I will keep everyone posted. I will make a "this is my RFL journey" post....and, yes @Laces918 - I will include those blasted "starting pic" and weekly (or whatever) update pics! ARGH! :-) So, everyone be warned!!!! I mean, forewarned is forearmed, right? Look at your own risk.
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.
  • Tic78Tic78 Member Posts: 231 Member Member Posts: 231 Member
    @sardelsa thanks for the explanation, sounds like something to consider for the future
    edited July 2018
  • Tic78Tic78 Member Posts: 231 Member Member Posts: 231 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »

    I am thinking of purchasing the books just to learn more about them. Although I would probably never run them in the future, maybe I would take bits and pieces to incorporate in a more not so strict manner. Right now I calorie/carb cycle and do refeeds with no strict rules and just kind of wing everything. It works for me so I am not messing with it!

    That’s a good idea, while I’ve been running a deficit for quite a while now I don’t have any strict rules for refeeds. I will need to do some more research, have also been considering carb cycling. You know what they say though, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it!
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.
  • Keto_VampireKeto_Vampire Member Posts: 1,679 Member Member Posts: 1,679 Member
    RFL macros (PSMF) are brutal to do long term; 1-2 day stints/week @ most (ideally on lesser activity days).
  • livingleanlivingcleanlivingleanlivingclean Member Posts: 11,755 Member Member Posts: 11,755 Member
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    I did something similar to rfl for one week close to a comp under instructions from my coach at the time. I don't think she knew it as rfl though...and she also made me reduce sodium - no wonder I felt like death and could barely function!

    edited July 2018
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,647 Member Member Posts: 5,647 Member
    sardelsa wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    moogie_fit wrote: »
    @LiftHeavyThings27105 I would like to add while I don't know anything about this diet, if your currently doing keto, you will not likely get six pack abs. This is because your muscle glycogen is depleted and you will lack a "pump" you get from carbs and exercise. I really think you would benefit from carbs if you want to see more definition in your muscles as carbs will bring water into your muscles. (But weight may go up)

    I have been thinking - after getting SUPER pumped about this - that it might not be the best idea for me, @moogie_fit!

    Last week I did a test and ate a box of cereal (yes, the whole freaking box!) and things did not go so well for me. I am doing Keto because of high A1C and carbs affect me a little bit differently from the way they do most people. Sucks to be me (well, pretty much only in this context!).

    But, come heck or high water I am going to be doing something come August 1. I have not abondoned this idea completely (of doing the UD2.0).....just re-thinking it.

    But, concept is still very much alive. The vehicle is the only thing - potentially - that will change.

    If you want to do something extreme, but don't think the UD works for you due to all the carbs why not consider the RFL?

    Im doing it in blocks: 2 weeks on, with one refeed/free meal in the middle, then a 1 week break....I've nearly finished the first "block" and didn't find the first 2 weeks overly painful

    Honestly, that has been sounding more and more interesting the more I look at it. And.....I am past the "let's get hyped" point and actually using my brain (the reason side)...

    I wouldn't be that excited... Its even more crazy than UD2.

    Ha! I really like "crazy, bat s**t" stuff! Not people....stuff! The guy from powerliftingtowin.com did a RFL regime and he seemed to really like it. I follow him and have a lot of respect for him...so, he was quite positive. I am going to sleep on it and will very likely decide tomorrow.

    Thanks, everyone! It is nice to know that others are thinking the same thing that I am. :-)

    Yea I've heard RFL is brutal. I did 4 days fairly aggressive high protein and I wanted to fall over. Also my muscles looked so flat I almost thought I lost them! But when I added carbs back they popped again (phew!)

    I actually purchased the Extremely Rapid Fat Loss program from Lyle McDonald's web site (for a whopping $5) and loved it. I did that last week...Friday I want to say (so, ran that Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday). But, remember Stephanie, I do Keto so no carbs (and this was 100% Protein....glad that I LOVE tuna!!!) is not really anything new or weird to me. That is pretty much everyday. :-)

    Folks - I am ABSOLUTELY going to do the RFL Program. To the best of my knowledge, there is no "Thursday - HUGE CARB DAY" like in the UD 2.0 Program. So, unless there is some other mitigating factor of which I am unaware (but will find out when I purchase the program) then I am all-in! For the win (and, maybe that elusive 6-pack abs that I have NEVER had in my life....why not for the first time at 51, right?).....

    It wasn't so much the low carbs, I was fine with that (except how they made me look) but the low calories. And it was so bland and boring. Most of my day was tuna, boiled chicken, whey.. repeat. It was only 4 days. I can't imagine doing that longer term!!

    Anyhow good luck! Please keep us posted on your progress.

    There are times I'm glad I'm a can't really eat eggs vegetarian, makes RFL pretty much impossible for me and thus prevents me from subjecting myself to it!
  • Nony_MouseNony_Mouse Member Posts: 5,647 Member Member Posts: 5,647 Member
    Tic78 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »

    I am thinking of purchasing the books just to learn more about them. Although I would probably never run them in the future, maybe I would take bits and pieces to incorporate in a more not so strict manner. Right now I calorie/carb cycle and do refeeds with no strict rules and just kind of wing everything. It works for me so I am not messing with it!

    That’s a good idea, while I’ve been running a deficit for quite a while now I don’t have any strict rules for refeeds. I will need to do some more research, have also been considering carb cycling. You know what they say though, if it’s not broke, don’t fix it!

    If you're interested in learning more about refeeds, this (very lengthy) thread is chock full of info: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1
  • Keto_VampireKeto_Vampire Member Posts: 1,679 Member Member Posts: 1,679 Member
    Yeah, bland it is...never again will I consume egg whites. Did a crazy stint of egg whites + frank's hot sauce.
    Yeah, it worked, but there was no pleasure in eating such dry, bland food. Got down to like 150-155lbs or so (-10-15lbs from usual baseline; totally lacked any fullness though, so not the subjective best looking version until after replenishing some glycogen).
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.

    I think a lot of it has to do with experience too, which you have.

    I don't measure my bodyfat but I feel like I would be lean enough. It's more the other criteria I suppose!
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.

    I think a lot of it has to do with experience too, which you have.

    I don't measure my bodyfat but I feel like I would be lean enough. It's more the other criteria I suppose!

    You have a lot more experience than you think. And the pre-requisite for dieting experience is 6 months, which you have. But it comes down to compliance and drive.
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.

    I think a lot of it has to do with experience too, which you have.

    I don't measure my bodyfat but I feel like I would be lean enough. It's more the other criteria I suppose!

    You have a lot more experience than you think. And the pre-requisite for dieting experience is 6 months, which you have. But it comes down to compliance and drive.

    Yea I suppose I could run it if my goals change.. but right now my goal isn't to get ultra lean (stage lean) to be honest. I'm definitely not going to compete anytime in the future.

    I also don't have too many hunger issues when I diet. And whatever I do (gain muscle, lose weight) my body seems to respond how I want it to for the most part, aesthetically. I don't know if there is any added benefit for me to do it.
  • psuLemonpsuLemon Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator Member, MFP Moderator, Greeter, Premium Posts: 37,761 MFP Moderator
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.

    I think a lot of it has to do with experience too, which you have.

    I don't measure my bodyfat but I feel like I would be lean enough. It's more the other criteria I suppose!

    You have a lot more experience than you think. And the pre-requisite for dieting experience is 6 months, which you have. But it comes down to compliance and drive.

    Yea I suppose I could run it if my goals change.. but right now my goal isn't to get ultra lean (stage lean) to be honest. I'm definitely not going to compete anytime in the future.

    I also don't have too many hunger issues when I diet. And whatever I do (gain muscle, lose weight) my body seems to respond how I want it to for the most part, aesthetically. I don't know if there is any added benefit for me to do it.

    I only plan on using this to hit around 10%. But if I like it, i might bulk with it. He does not you can be less aggressive and/or bulk using this strategy.
  • sardelsasardelsa Member Posts: 9,833 Member Member Posts: 9,833 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    Tic78 wrote: »
    Do most people run these different programmes during a cut to shred body fat rather than just a conventional calorie deficit?

    Good luck with whatever plan you decide to try.

    RFL is fast. For some people, especially more experienced dieters, they like to get in.. and get out so they can get back to normal or get back to their building cycles.

    UD2 is not as aggressive but still very challenging, and I believe is designed for more for elite, those with lower bodyfat and bodybuilders.. it deals with management of hunger and being ultra lean. At least that is how I understand it.

    Its designed for a seasoned dieter who is trying to get to very low body fat and isn't genetically gifted. Its recommended to only consider this approach if you are sub 15% for males and sub 22% for women (IIRC).

    Interesting. Yea based on that I don't think I'd qualify to run it.

    In all fairness, i am running it at 18-20%. Lyle doesn't suggest these programs to those at higher body fat due to their difficulty. For those with higher body fat, he recommends that with the least resistance.

    I think a lot of it has to do with experience too, which you have.

    I don't measure my bodyfat but I feel like I would be lean enough. It's more the other criteria I suppose!

    You have a lot more experience than you think. And the pre-requisite for dieting experience is 6 months, which you have. But it comes down to compliance and drive.

    Yea I suppose I could run it if my goals change.. but right now my goal isn't to get ultra lean (stage lean) to be honest. I'm definitely not going to compete anytime in the future.

    I also don't have too many hunger issues when I diet. And whatever I do (gain muscle, lose weight) my body seems to respond how I want it to for the most part, aesthetically. I don't know if there is any added benefit for me to do it.

    I only plan on using this to hit around 10%. But if I like it, i might bulk with it. He does not you can be less aggressive and/or bulk using this strategy.

    Oh yea? Ok I think it might be worth reading in that case. It is all so interesting to me. Thanks !!
  • Tic78Tic78 Member Posts: 231 Member Member Posts: 231 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    If you're interested in learning more about refeeds, this (very lengthy) thread is chock full of info: https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10604863/of-refeeds-and-diet-breaks/p1

    Thank you, that’s a great link. I will go over it all later. Had a quick look and I feel that proper refeeds could really help me.


    I did something similar to rfl for one week close to a comp under instructions from my coach at the time. I don't think she knew it as rfl though...and she also made me reduce sodium - no wonder I felt like death and could barely function!

    That sounds full on!
  • LiftHeavyThings27105LiftHeavyThings27105 Member Posts: 2,104 Member Member Posts: 2,104 Member
    I really want to tell everyone who has replied to this post just how much I appreciate all of the input. Several of the really really really smart people have taken time out of their day to comment. So, thank you to everyone....I hope that this thread has helped numerous people....if only making folks aware of the programs that Lyle McDonald has put out there!
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