Compound and Isolation Workouts for Routine
BlackPantherChick123
Posts: 425 Member
Alright, I talked about this in another post, but this one is asking about making a routine with compound and isolation workouts. Bare with me, this might be long, but could really still use advice so I don't mess up. I started weight lifting back in early January, and my trainer at my gym only showed me basic isolation workouts and didn't focus on any compound workouts. So for the last 7 months, all I been doing was a lot of isolation workouts (25 total workouts with 3x15 sets and reps) full body 3x a week. I noticed how I'm barely making any progress and it's been this long. I had plateaued with losing body fat and building muscle mass and I just now realized that I should be focused more on compound workouts rather than these crazy isolation workouts. I would be at the gym for 1 to almost 2 hours trying to do them all and I always feel so tired that some days I end up skipping the gym. I really wished my trainer would of told me how to properly make a routine that could help me lose fat and build muscle and strength rather than doing excessive training with isolation and no compound workouts. I'll ask some questions and I'm kinda hoping to get some straightforward answers to these and some tips that could help me. Just to note, I'm only new to making proper routines, I love to workout and stay active and I do watch my diet. I am also 5'2, 142-143 lbs, 24.1-2% body fat, and 30.7% muscle mass. Would like to improve my muscle mass and try to drop down to 20% body fat.
1. How many compound workouts should I do a day for 3x a week for full body? (I stick to doing full body rather than upper/lower body splits because this works for me.)
2. Can I add in a few isolation workouts to my compound so I can focus more on certain body parts on certain days? For example, a worker at my gym told me about adding no more than 4 isolation workouts and mentioned something like Back and Biceps one day, Chest and Triceps another, and Leg and Shoulders on the last. Does this mean I do my compound workouts that focus more on this and then add in 4 isolation to those days or do all of my upper and lower compounds and then do 4 isolation workouts that focus on muscle groups for that day? Also, change up the isolation workouts for those days every week. I hope this wasn't too confusing. I just see a lot of YouTube workout routine videos for like full body that include compound and isolation, and it's something I could do since I can handle a lot of workouts after doing so many for so long.
3. Could I do all compound workouts and no isolation to see results? Or only do a few compounds a day and still no isolation?
4. Could someone give me an example of a good workout routine to follow that focuses on full body for 3x a week or advice on making a good workout routine that can help reach my goals?
5. How heavy should I start? I went to do a practice day with compound workouts with my fiancé and he showed me how to properly use the bars and racks to do them myself since I don't have a spotter and rather not have one since my gym trainer is only there in the mornings and I rather not interrupt somebody else's workout. Since I'm new to compound lifts, I start off with a curl bar because the really big ones are too heavy but some I can use, but only using the bar only. Do I start off by doing a warmup and go to a certain point where it's heavy and then add in more weight to it until failure?
6. Whats a good strategy for compound lifting, 5x5 or 3x10? I personally like to do 3x10 since thats what my trainer showed me when he only showed me a few of the compound lifts in the past but I'm not 100% sure on what is best to get results.
7. How many total workouts should I do to get results if I do this 3x a week full body? I can handle doing more than like 4-5 but I'm not exactly sure how many workouts a day I should do.
8. What are the best compound workouts that give better results? I would really like to focus more on my legs because they are my biggest insecurity and would like to lose more fat in them. Of course I want to improve my overall full body.
I apologize for this long post and so many questions that I can't seem to get a straightforward answer to, I would really appreciate the feedback and advice. I appreciate the time you have to help me with this, I just feel stuck when it comes to reaching my goals.
1. How many compound workouts should I do a day for 3x a week for full body? (I stick to doing full body rather than upper/lower body splits because this works for me.)
2. Can I add in a few isolation workouts to my compound so I can focus more on certain body parts on certain days? For example, a worker at my gym told me about adding no more than 4 isolation workouts and mentioned something like Back and Biceps one day, Chest and Triceps another, and Leg and Shoulders on the last. Does this mean I do my compound workouts that focus more on this and then add in 4 isolation to those days or do all of my upper and lower compounds and then do 4 isolation workouts that focus on muscle groups for that day? Also, change up the isolation workouts for those days every week. I hope this wasn't too confusing. I just see a lot of YouTube workout routine videos for like full body that include compound and isolation, and it's something I could do since I can handle a lot of workouts after doing so many for so long.
3. Could I do all compound workouts and no isolation to see results? Or only do a few compounds a day and still no isolation?
4. Could someone give me an example of a good workout routine to follow that focuses on full body for 3x a week or advice on making a good workout routine that can help reach my goals?
5. How heavy should I start? I went to do a practice day with compound workouts with my fiancé and he showed me how to properly use the bars and racks to do them myself since I don't have a spotter and rather not have one since my gym trainer is only there in the mornings and I rather not interrupt somebody else's workout. Since I'm new to compound lifts, I start off with a curl bar because the really big ones are too heavy but some I can use, but only using the bar only. Do I start off by doing a warmup and go to a certain point where it's heavy and then add in more weight to it until failure?
6. Whats a good strategy for compound lifting, 5x5 or 3x10? I personally like to do 3x10 since thats what my trainer showed me when he only showed me a few of the compound lifts in the past but I'm not 100% sure on what is best to get results.
7. How many total workouts should I do to get results if I do this 3x a week full body? I can handle doing more than like 4-5 but I'm not exactly sure how many workouts a day I should do.
8. What are the best compound workouts that give better results? I would really like to focus more on my legs because they are my biggest insecurity and would like to lose more fat in them. Of course I want to improve my overall full body.
I apologize for this long post and so many questions that I can't seem to get a straightforward answer to, I would really appreciate the feedback and advice. I appreciate the time you have to help me with this, I just feel stuck when it comes to reaching my goals.
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Maybe someone else can tackle all the questions, but I just want to clarify... you say you want to build muscle and lose fat, so you would be maintaining your weight? I just ask because you are just above a normal BMI so I would eat in a deficit to get to a healthy weight. Not to say you can't build a bit in a deficit, but it typically isn't very significant. Even in a surplus, with all ducks in a row, gaining muscle is difficult for women. With your stats and being 30% bf I would eat in a small deficit, follow a lifting program (and try not to tweak it too much...the more you mess with it without the proper experience, the higher chance you have of creating an imbalanced routine), get adequate protein... this way you would maintain the muscle you have while you losse, and as you get closer to a healthy weight then you can start to think about recomp or maintaining your weight to lose fat and gain muscle slowly over time.
What do you mean you had plateaued? Do you mean you stopped losing weight? That will come from your diet. You need to eat in a deficit to lose weight.
While routine is important... it is more about making progress with time vs a specific routine. Find something you like.. stick with it.. if you don't like it after a few months, find something else. I loved Strong Curves... it is a full body 3-4x per week lower body focus, mostly compound with some isolation and accessories. A little light on the upper body, but overall a great program for the legs and glutes, if that is something you are interested in.
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I'm actually 24.1% body fat, not 30. That't my muscle mass.0
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My advise, for what it may be worth, do a web search of weight lifting routines. Find one you think you'd like and try it. If it meets your needs, continue, If it falls short somehow, find another and repeat the process. you'll find something, already tried and tested, scheduled and ready to go.0
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BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »I'm actually 24.1% body fat, not 30. That't my muscle mass.
Oh I apologize. How did you measure your bodyfat? Was it done by a trainer?0 -
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you
1 - a well designed program will say.
2 - forget that worker's fad bro advice - it's not useful and is probably even slower than what you did. But yes a program can include that, and many do.
3 - yes - depending on what results you are talking about - gaining strength, gaining muscle size to be more visible, ect?
4 - see link and read some pages for advice.
5 - start light while confirming form is spot on, progress will be increasing weight while form is maintained. You need to hit the reps and sets given basically, that dictates the weight.
6 - see link
7 - 3 x weekly full body is 3 x weekly full body - not sure if you mean going multiple times daily?
8 - There is no spot reducing as you seem to be asking for. You'll gain muscle where you happen to be pressing the body the most to make it, you'll be losing fat from wherever your body likes to lose it first.
You should be totally prepared for gaining some good muscle in legs that will be totally unseen because body will lose the fat there last. Perhaps.
Just to emphasize - be very clear to us and in your own mind as to what you mean by results - or you can be easily disappointed with results you get.
If results means spot reducing - then forget it.3 -
BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »Alright, I talked about this in another post, but this one is asking about making a routine with compound and isolation workouts. Bare with me, this might be long, but could really still use advice so I don't mess up. I started weight lifting back in early January, and my trainer at my gym only showed me basic isolation workouts and didn't focus on any compound workouts. So for the last 7 months, all I been doing was a lot of isolation workouts (25 total workouts with 3x15 sets and reps) full body 3x a week. I noticed how I'm barely making any progress and it's been this long. I had plateaued with losing body fat and building muscle mass and I just now realized that I should be focused more on compound workouts rather than these crazy isolation workouts. I would be at the gym for 1 to almost 2 hours trying to do them all and I always feel so tired that some days I end up skipping the gym. I really wished my trainer would of told me how to properly make a routine that could help me lose fat and build muscle and strength rather than doing excessive training with isolation and no compound workouts. I'll ask some questions and I'm kinda hoping to get some straightforward answers to these and some tips that could help me. Just to note, I'm only new to making proper routines, I love to workout and stay active and I do watch my diet. I am also 5'2, 142-143 lbs, 24.1-2% body fat, and 30.7% muscle mass. Would like to improve my muscle mass and try to drop down to 20% body fat.
1. How many compound workouts should I do a day for 3x a week for full body? (I stick to doing full body rather than upper/lower body splits because this works for me.)
2. Can I add in a few isolation workouts to my compound so I can focus more on certain body parts on certain days? For example, a worker at my gym told me about adding no more than 4 isolation workouts and mentioned something like Back and Biceps one day, Chest and Triceps another, and Leg and Shoulders on the last. Does this mean I do my compound workouts that focus more on this and then add in 4 isolation to those days or do all of my upper and lower compounds and then do 4 isolation workouts that focus on muscle groups for that day? Also, change up the isolation workouts for those days every week. I hope this wasn't too confusing. I just see a lot of YouTube workout routine videos for like full body that include compound and isolation, and it's something I could do since I can handle a lot of workouts after doing so many for so long.
3. Could I do all compound workouts and no isolation to see results? Or only do a few compounds a day and still no isolation?
4. Could someone give me an example of a good workout routine to follow that focuses on full body for 3x a week or advice on making a good workout routine that can help reach my goals?
5. How heavy should I start? I went to do a practice day with compound workouts with my fiancé and he showed me how to properly use the bars and racks to do them myself since I don't have a spotter and rather not have one since my gym trainer is only there in the mornings and I rather not interrupt somebody else's workout. Since I'm new to compound lifts, I start off with a curl bar because the really big ones are too heavy but some I can use, but only using the bar only. Do I start off by doing a warmup and go to a certain point where it's heavy and then add in more weight to it until failure?
6. Whats a good strategy for compound lifting, 5x5 or 3x10? I personally like to do 3x10 since thats what my trainer showed me when he only showed me a few of the compound lifts in the past but I'm not 100% sure on what is best to get results.
7. How many total workouts should I do to get results if I do this 3x a week full body? I can handle doing more than like 4-5 but I'm not exactly sure how many workouts a day I should do.
8. What are the best compound workouts that give better results? I would really like to focus more on my legs because they are my biggest insecurity and would like to lose more fat in them. Of course I want to improve my overall full body.
I apologize for this long post and so many questions that I can't seem to get a straightforward answer to, I would really appreciate the feedback and advice. I appreciate the time you have to help me with this, I just feel stuck when it comes to reaching my goals.
1. That will depend on your current programming and volume, but usually three will suffice for most beginners and just above.
2. You could. I wouldn't add. Honestly anything you see on youtube is usually somebody with low based content. They are trying to make a buck in most cases just like your PT who hasn't a clue.
3. Yes you could. I have many people do so for strength and aesthetics though I generally add GPP training on one day eventually.
4. Starting Strength is a decent program as well as Izzy's beginner program though his is more power lifting and SS is strength based for the general population.
5. Heavy as you can hold form with good bar speed. Hence why Starting Strength is more optimal than most others that will have you waste time and perhaps achieve atrophy because governing what your level of lifting.
6. 3x5 is best to start until you nerarly stall with good form. I wouldn't suggest a 5x5 unless you are already using one and 3x10 isn't bad but it must be programmed a developmental lift.
7. See #1
8. A program that incorporates squats, deadlifts, bench, & ohp will give you a good base.1 -
I have a body scanner scale. My body fat use to be very high and my muscle mass was was very low. This is the highest it's ever been in my life. People don't even believe that I weigh as much as I do. I don't even look 142 but since I started weight lifting, it either went up by a couple of pounds but my body fat has decreased dramatically. People assume I weigh about 120 and my body frame is like a medium size I assume, since I have broader shoulders, thicker thighs, and chest heavy. I use to do nothing but hours of cardio everyday. Weightlifting has completely changed me physically and mentally.2
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BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »I have a body scanner scale. My body fat use to be very high and my muscle mass was was very low. This is the highest it's ever been in my life. People don't even believe that I weigh as much as I do. I don't even look 142 but since I started weight lifting, it either went up by a couple of pounds but my body fat has decreased dramatically. People assume I weigh about 120 and my body frame is like a medium size I assume, since I have broader shoulders, thicker thighs, and chest heavy. I use to do nothing but hours of cardio everyday. Weightlifting has completely changed me physically and mentally.
What makes you say you have reached a plateau then? If you are trying to recomp results will be slow and a body scanner is not always accurate to reflect that.
I would still find an established program though to give yourself the most optimal results1 -
For starters, I'm wondering why you don't just go with an established program from your last post. Those programs were created by professionals...writing your own program requires a good deal of knowledge.
For many of your questions, there is no cut and dry universally correct response because much of it depends on your goals. Lower rep ranges are primarily strength focused, medium rep ranges are primarily hypertrophy focused, and higher rep ranges are primarily endurance focused.
There are many programs that only focus on compound movements...and yes, you get results when you run the program as directed. Many programs focus largely on compound movements with assistance work thrown in. Many programs focus largely on compound movements with assistance work and isolation work thrown in.
Most beginner programs focus solely on compound movements, typically 3-4 movements per workout. Where you get into trouble throwing in a bunch of isolation work on top of your primary work is recovery...particularly with novice lifters. More is not always better...the magic that comes with lifting actually comes with rest and recovery.
My trainer does my programming for me. I don't typically live in any one rep range and he typically changes my programming up every 8-12 weeks depending on what it is. Right now I'm doing an undulating periodization program that focuses largely on compound movements being the primary work with some isolation work for biceps, triceps, and abs that he refers to as voluntary work. My current program focuses on frequency as well as higher volume than you would find with a 3x5 or 5x5 or 3x10 protocol.
A: (4x10)
- Front Squats
- Incline Bench
- Barbell rows
- Dumbbell OHP
- curl variations
- triceps
- abs
B: (5x8)
- Deadlift
- Flat Bench
- Pull ups
- BB OHP
- curls
- triceps
- abs
C: (3x12)
- Bulgarian split squat
- Decline bench
- Face Pulls
- DB OHP
- curls
- triceps
- abs
In an ideal world he would have me doing some kind of squat and deadlift variation every workout, but I'm an avid cycling enthusiast and doing that kills my legs for riding so he has me alternate that work through the week and from week to week...like if this was week one, on week two I would do RDLs in workout A and back squats in workout B. 5x8 is my "heavy" day, so he has me do more traditional compounds rather than variations.
Compound movements are the most important because they work your body the way your body works...all together and not in isolation. They hit the largest muscle groups, but also work all of the smaller stabilizers, etc.
I cycle for cardio on my non-lifting days.3 -
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Sometimes I assume that almost every YouTube video I see they created their own workout, because it's hard to tell if they are on a program or not. I even asked the people at the gym about starting a program and they seem to turn away my question and would tell me to do something else like what I mentioned in question 2.0
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BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »Sometimes I assume that almost every YouTube video I see they created their own workout, because it's hard to tell if they are on a program or not. I even asked the people at the gym about starting a program and they seem to turn away my question and would tell me to do something else like what I mentioned in question 2.
I've been in and out of gyms most of my life...honestly, the vast majority of people have no *kitten* clue what they're doing. Hell, I spent the better part of my life just making my own *kitten* up...yeah, I saw results over time, but they were inefficient and unbalanced. I wasted a ton of time just doing my own thing.
The first actual program I ran was Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe who is a professional strength training coach and former competitive power lifter...the results I was getting strength wise were happening in a matter of months and I far outperformed my levels of strength from years prior.4 -
That makes sense. I'll look into one of those programs that could help me. How long should I stick to one of the programs before changing it?0
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BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »That makes sense. I'll look into one of those programs that could help me. How long should I stick to one of the programs before changing it?
No reason to change anything if ypu are getting results. Once the results start to fizzle, then a change is needed. Don't get too far in front of the game. Get yourself on a program and run the chit out of it.2 -
Are there any apps that include different programs and workouts to keep track of?0
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This is a fair bit of reading but I think you would benefit from it:
https://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-ultimate-weight-training-workout-routine/
If you follow the link, you'll be taken to a page that has several subpages that lay out the basics about lifting. Start at the first link (How To Design An Effective Workout Routine) and follow the link at the bottom of each page to make your way through it. It's very clearly written.1 -
In the "which lifting program is the best for you" thread (which has been linked in both of your threads), there are a ton of routines which combine compound and isolation movements. Any time you get away from a pure strength/powerlifting routine (most of which emphasize the "big three" - squat, deadlift, bench press), there will usually be both types of exercises mixed in.
You stick to a program as long as it's working for you. "Program hopping" is a bad idea and is usually less effective than staying with one good, well-designed routine.3 -
Pick a program. Run the program. Don't change the program unless it isn't working. Then pick a new program. Do not try to make up your own at this point.6
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There's no reason to create your own program. There's also no reason to follow youtubers (there's a lot of garbage on youtube; my kid uses it to watch other people play video games).
Pick a program from that thread...like Starting Strength and follow. There is no time frame for switching programs. I used 5/3/1 for deadlifts for 2 years. I'm switching now, b/c I've plateaued (and am bored with it).
Compound (squat, bench, dl, ohp) lifts followed by accessory exercises is how most strength programs are structured. My trainer planned my squat/bench program (3x10 squat or bench followed by 2 accessory exercises also 3x10). Both lifts have been responding better to more volume than 5/3/1.
I've found that recomp has been more about food for me.. I recomped for a full year. I generally ate about a 50-100 calorie deficit per day and lifted heavy. Its a long process.0 -
I use the app WorkIt, it has some pre-programmed workouts like starting strength, stronglifts, PHUL and PHAT. I personally use it for Strong Curves, although it only has the first 8 weeks I just create the next workout after that from my book. I like Strong Curves because it is aesthetics based and I struggle with correct form in heavy squats so I prefer to fatigue my glutes first.1
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BlackPantherChick123 wrote: »That makes sense. I'll look into one of those programs that could help me. How long should I stick to one of the programs before changing it?
Until you plateau or are bored. At least 12 weeks.0 -
DancingMoosie wrote: »Pick a program. Run the program. Don't change the program unless it isn't working. Then pick a new program. Do not try to make up your own at this point.
This^! Don't try and reinvent the wheel. You have neither the background or training to free lance this. Pick a beginner program. Starting Strength, Stronglifts 5x5, Strong Curves. Run the program for at least 12 weeks. Period.2 -
I use an app called FitNotes - at least for android, not sure about Apple.
You totally create the workout or workouts yourself, with flexibility to the rest timer, plate calculator based on what you have, add reps/weight/sets easily, or leave them off.
Copy a prior workout to keep the numbers going up.
Backups to a cloud account.
text the workout to email or other for other logging.
It was a little bit of a bear to setup, but once done, super easy to use. Almost as easy, but more flexible, than the StrongLifts app.2
This discussion has been closed.
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