Have you had success because of The Obesity Code (book)?
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Current trends are unsustainable thank God. The earth simply can't support uncontained population growth, resource extraction and consumerism.
The trend is to get global population to 9 B and probably stabilize there. There's going to be a whole lot of resources extracted and consumed.0 -
I'm not looking for a debate on if the theories in this book are correct or not or if there are other ways to achieve weight loss so please don't start...
I'm curious, has anyone read The Obesity Code: Unlocking the Secrets of Weight Loss by Dr. Jason Fung and lost more weight after following his advice? Just curious if anyone who's struggled to lose the traditional calories in vs. calories out way has had more success following what he suggests?
After re-reading your original post a couple of comments. I read the book. I think he comes to some good conclusions from some bad reasoning. His big miss is that calories don't matter.
That said, many of his other recommendations can be fairly good for overall health and can help with weight loss when combined with a calorie deficit and, for me, help with controlling hunger and satiety. FTR, I don't follow these methods because of reading his book. It was just the way my eating habits evolved.
Intermittent Fasting - I do and like it. Helps control hunger for me and helps with insulin sensitivity. There is some T2D history in my family.
Complex carbs vs. simple carbs - Not bad for either health or satiety I follow the 80/20 rule loosely.
None of this is earth shattering. If you want to control hunger and be satisfied while in calorie deficit, try it. But calorie counting is still part of it.4 -
Is he using complex carbs in the correct sense, though? I take it he calls for the elimination of all starches including whole grains, legumes, tubers and the like? Simple carbs, are any okay like berries?4
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Is he using complex carbs in the correct sense, though? I take it he calls for the elimination of all starches including whole grains, legumes, tubers and the like? Simple carbs, are any okay like berries?
He does recommend the elimination of processed grains. Another area of disagreement that I have with him. Some are ok. Honestly, I don't think he has an issue with whole grains because of the fiber but I don't recall exactly. He was generally ok with whole fruits and veggies cause fiber.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I wondered how they could say "hours of starvation". After looking at the rest of the stuff I'm pretty sure they mean after any fuel from your last meal is used up or stored, not that you're starving the moment the fork is put down, so that adds another 8+ hours for digestion of your last meal.
It would also seem to me that if your last meal is fat and you're using dietary fat for fuel that you'd still go through the catabolic phase getting to day 8 when your body switches to using body fat for fuel.
I'm not seeing how using diet for fuel to using body stores of fuel would vary depending on the source of the dietary fuel.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
I wondered how they could say "hours of starvation". After looking at the rest of the stuff I'm pretty sure they mean after any fuel from your last meal is used up or stored, not that you're starving the moment the fork is put down, so that adds another 8+ hours for digestion of your last meal.
It would also seem to me that if your last meal is fat and you're using dietary fat for fuel that you'd still go through the catabolic phase getting to day 8 when your body switches to using body fat for fuel.
I'm not seeing how using diet for fuel to using body stores of fuel would vary depending on the source of the dietary fuel.
I agree. I remember reading something about this but I can't remember where. I seem to recall the catabolic phase at or after 72 hours. I could look it up if I didn't have an acre of lawn to cut and a wife that is giving the "are you gonna spend all day on that computer" look.
Maybe later.... 2 -
Discovered Dr Fung a couple of years ago. Yep, it works, absolutely, it can't fail because it explains how obesity works as a disease. That is its point of difference over the fairy stories that have been promulgated for decades, and continue to be, of course.
For example, having been off the wagon for a couple of years, both my wife and I were diagnosed with early onset type II diabetes. We used Dr Fung's "18/6" (only eating during a 6 hour period each day) for 3 weeks. All symptoms went away, lost about 3kgs at the same time. Measuring blood glucose every meal daily was part of this, so it's not guesswork.
BTW, I'm 71 years old and have been obese for as long as I can remember. Must have lost several times my body weight over the years trying to deal with it! Have always been told I'm "big-boned" which is the polite version of "you're a lazy, overindulgent loser". The truth is, I might be fat, but I'm not stupid.
Here are a couple of stories. Back in the late 90s I did a concentrated 13 month "starve and sweat" (walking and WeightWatchers) programme that resulted in a 25 kg loss. Eight months later 15 kg had returned. Four years ago I did it again (this time with MFP and hydrorobics) to lose 30 kg in 14 months, this time I got down to 88kg. But I noticed I felt cold, all the time. When I asked the GP about it, the idiot said, "Another 4 kg and you'll be healthy, that fat isn't keeping you warm any more!" It took 8 months for 20 kg to find its way back.
Now, as an engineer, I know from decades of study and half a century of experience, that if I don't understand the problem, or how something works I can neither design a solution nor come up with an effective repair. That's why "starve and sweat", doesn't work, it doesn't address the causal factors! Dr Fung indeed comes up with the explanation of how obesity "works" and Type II also, of course. He identifies the problem and its causal factors and comes up with explanations for why calorie counting alone never works in the long term, never could and can't. Best of all he describes obesity as the disease the medical profession continues to ignore, and that's the bell that rings with me. That, and condemnation of calorie counting as the best or only way to control obesity. For starters, nothing in human physiology can possibly be so simple!
In a nutshell, Dr Fung says that when you eat is at least as important as what you eat. It's as simple as that, but I've never heard it from a GP, nor seen it on conventional diabetes or weight loss programme websites.
The big problem with it is that it's counter to the commercial imperatives of the food manufacturers. It doesn't lead to expensive concoctions or to the replacement of nutritional ingredients with arguably toxic cheap-junk rubbish.
As for intermittent fasting, it's like stopping smoking. First, you have to believe in it. Second, you need to recognise that doing it on your own is very difficult. You need a support group to help you along the way. And since "the establishment" doesn't get IF at all..etc..etc..30 -
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https://myoleanfitness.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/
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eta: This is my opinion as well.4 -
I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.28 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.
I truly hope you aren't resigned to believing that you are destined to give up carbs for good because you're damaged. It's one thing f you enjoy the way you're currently eating, but if you're doing it because you believe you have no other choice, then you're making it harder on yourself than it needs to be. I'm someone who started super obese (a clinical term) and lost a lot of weight without giving up bread and vegetables, and without limiting carbs beyond what calories dictate. Once you get the hang of calorie counting, it really works, regardless of any "damage" you have and without any extra curriculums. The rest is part of working on sustainability.16 -
Discovered Dr Fung a couple of years ago. Yep, it works, absolutely, it can't fail because it explains how obesity works as a disease. That is its point of difference over the fairy stories that have been promulgated for decades, and continue to be, of course.
For example, having been off the wagon for a couple of years, both my wife and I were diagnosed with early onset type II diabetes. We used Dr Fung's "18/6" (only eating during a 6 hour period each day) for 3 weeks. All symptoms went away, lost about 3kgs at the same time. Measuring blood glucose every meal daily was part of this, so it's not guesswork.
BTW, I'm 71 years old and have been obese for as long as I can remember. Must have lost several times my body weight over the years trying to deal with it! Have always been told I'm "big-boned" which is the polite version of "you're a lazy, overindulgent loser". The truth is, I might be fat, but I'm not stupid.
Here are a couple of stories. Back in the late 90s I did a concentrated 13 month "starve and sweat" (walking and WeightWatchers) programme that resulted in a 25 kg loss. Eight months later 15 kg had returned. Four years ago I did it again (this time with MFP and hydrorobics) to lose 30 kg in 14 months, this time I got down to 88kg. But I noticed I felt cold, all the time. When I asked the GP about it, the idiot said, "Another 4 kg and you'll be healthy, that fat isn't keeping you warm any more!" It took 8 months for 20 kg to find its way back.
Now, as an engineer, I know from decades of study and half a century of experience, that if I don't understand the problem, or how something works I can neither design a solution nor come up with an effective repair. That's why "starve and sweat", doesn't work, it doesn't address the causal factors! Dr Fung indeed comes up with the explanation of how obesity "works" and Type II also, of course. He identifies the problem and its causal factors and comes up with explanations for why calorie counting alone never works in the long term, never could and can't. Best of all he describes obesity as the disease the medical profession continues to ignore, and that's the bell that rings with me. That, and condemnation of calorie counting as the best or only way to control obesity. For starters, nothing in human physiology can possibly be so simple!
In a nutshell, Dr Fung says that when you eat is at least as important as what you eat. It's as simple as that, but I've never heard it from a GP, nor seen it on conventional diabetes or weight loss programme websites.
The big problem with it is that it's counter to the commercial imperatives of the food manufacturers. It doesn't lead to expensive concoctions or to the replacement of nutritional ingredients with arguably toxic cheap-junk rubbish.
As for intermittent fasting, it's like stopping smoking. First, you have to believe in it. Second, you need to recognise that doing it on your own is very difficult. You need a support group to help you along the way. And since "the establishment" doesn't get IF at all..etc..etc..
If you believe all this is true, how do you account for people that use IF to maintain or gain weight?10 -
It explains Fung's theories of how obesity works as a disease. Which are fairy stories and have been soundly and repeatedly torn to shreds by actual science ("actual science", as opposed to the cherry-picked pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo he spouts). The Obesity Code is about as fact-based as Lord of the Rings, and not near as interesting to read.Discovered Dr Fung a couple of years ago. Yep, it works, absolutely, it can't fail because it explains how obesity works as a disease. That is its point of difference over the fairy stories that have been promulgated for decades, and continue to be, of course...
You can start here for a scientific rebuttal of Fung's woo: https://www.myoleanfitness.com/evidence-caloric-restriction/
Fung is nothing but another Dr. Oz - another snake oil peddler who has sacrificed his objectivity and abuses his profession in pursuit of the almighty dollar. He's a charlatan. And a laughingstock amongst evidence-based health/nutrition researchers. Just for giggles, I should link again to the time he came onto the Facebook page for the International Society of Sports Nutrition to promote one of his seminars and got laughed at, trolled and savaged by virtually every evidence-based researcher you can think of. Before they finally booted him out of the group.As for intermittent fasting, it's like stopping smoking. First, you have to believe in it. Second, you need to recognise that doing it on your own is very difficult. You need a support group to help you along the way. And since "the establishment" doesn't get IF at all..etc..etc..
So intermittent fasting is faith-based? Sounds more like a religion than a diet. Which is fitting enough, since he's asking you to believe in something which hasn't been scientifically proven and has no tangible basis in fact. It's also apropos considering the magical, supernatural powers many people attribute to intermittent fasting - which is nothing more than simply eating at a certain time of the day.16 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.
I was obesity level III. Now I'm overweight and closing on normal. And trust me, it really IS as simple as 'eat less, move more'. I don't restrict my carbs. The only conscious change to my eating habits I made was to keep my homemade desserts to 200 calories/serving or less. Over time, I learned what to eat to feel full and have more energy while being in a calorie deficit. And in my case, that's plenty of carbs. Bloodwork has never been better. I do pay attention to make sure I'm getting enough protein and iron, but that's about it.17 -
I ate what I wanted while maintaining a deficit. I also do 16:8 IF and I lost weight because of the deficit. I gained weight in the past doing IF only I didnt know I was doing IF back then. I lost weight eating high amounts of carbs. I was obese.I didnt destroy or damage any of my organs either.My health markers improved and continue to do so eating high amounts of carbs.I have eaten spaghetti 3 days in a row.its all about calories in calories out no matter what way you eat.
I gained weight by eating too many calories and moving less compared to moving more before I got fat. I for a short time stopped fasting. it didnt make weight loss any better or faster.I am still fasting now and maintaining my weight. Oh and when I got fat I was overeating fruits and veggies. I thought that eating a lot of those things wouldnt put weight on. I learned that the hard way.so even eating "healthy" if you eat too much you gain weight. I am living proof of that.5 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.
As someone who had been obese since childhood and morbidly obese since I was a teenager... I am now in the ‘normal’ BMI range and healthy enough to enjoy HIIT and hiking up hills. I achieved this on a high-carb diet, controlling only my calories.
Avoiding carbs is making it easier for you to control your calories. That’s all.8 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.
As someone who had been obese since childhood and morbidly obese since I was a teenager... I am now in the ‘normal’ BMI range and healthy enough to enjoy HIIT and hiking up hills. I achieved this on a high-carb diet, controlling only my calories.
Avoiding carbs is making it easier for you to control your calories. That’s all.
Not sure if you are talking for everyone else, but that's false. We are all made different. My body for example needs high volume, regardless if they come from carbs or fats. If I did keto on a diet, the volume wouldn't be so high because high fat diets mean high caloric foods (remember 1g of fats = 9 calories), so it won't be long before I want to eat again because that's how my body is wired. With carbs, you can have a huge amount of volume of foods especially through vegetables which is why I thrive on them especially for the gym. At the end, it's all personal preference.6 -
I love the idea of not having to count. If his theories are correct and you eat good food at the right times your body will burn off the extra calories through a whole bunch of body processes... I should say I haven't finished reading the book so I don't know all the ins and outs but I like what I've read so far. Counting gets tiring.
Slimming World counts points rather than calories and from what I understand the healthy foods are 'free' points wise. Maybe try that?6 -
I think most of us are here because we have issues with portion control, plate size, and food selection. Nothing ever "burned off" me unless I helped along in the process. Working within a calorie limit compels me to make better food choices, i.e., what will give me a feeling of satiety until the next meal.4
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Zoejohnse91 wrote: »I love the idea of not having to count. If his theories are correct and you eat good food at the right times your body will burn off the extra calories through a whole bunch of body processes... I should say I haven't finished reading the book so I don't know all the ins and outs but I like what I've read so far. Counting gets tiring.
Slimming World counts points rather than calories and from what I understand the healthy foods are 'free' points wise. Maybe try that?
you can gain weight on healthy foods if you eat more than you burn .trust me thats how I became obese in the first place. I thought I could eat as many healthy fruits,veggies and so on and not gain. nope not true. everything but water has calories. calories add up.4 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »I read his book as well. I believe if someone is healthy, and not Obese then it makes sense for the Calorie deficit method only. But if you are truly Obese and have been so for any length of time, then you really need to pay attention to more than just calorie in and calorie out, and burned. I am not talking about someone who is a bit overweight I am talking about Obese.
Because if one is Obese over time, the facts are we have damaged organs inside our bodies. So the way to correct this as much as possible is about more than just burning more calories than we consume. This is where paying attention to Carbs and what kind, proteins, sugar, sodium and all of the rest come into play. Me, personally I do not follow anything that Dr. Fung wrote. But each person, has to decide what they are going to follow, and be comfortable with. Yes I need to burn the calories got it. But also track Carbs, and 99% of the time that means no pasta, no bread, no starchy veges, and no grains for me. And I have test results that back up why this was a great decision for me personally. And others it would not potentially work, and I get that too.
As someone who had been obese since childhood and morbidly obese since I was a teenager... I am now in the ‘normal’ BMI range and healthy enough to enjoy HIIT and hiking up hills. I achieved this on a high-carb diet, controlling only my calories.
Avoiding carbs is making it easier for you to control your calories. That’s all.
Not sure if you are talking for everyone else, but that's false. We are all made different. My body for example needs high volume, regardless if they come from carbs or fats. If I did keto on a diet, the volume wouldn't be so high because high fat diets mean high caloric foods (remember 1g of fats = 9 calories), so it won't be long before I want to eat again because that's how my body is wired. With carbs, you can have a huge amount of volume of foods especially through vegetables which is why I thrive on them especially for the gym. At the end, it's all personal preference.
...yes? You sound like you think you’re disagreeing with me, but you’re not...4
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