Almost halfway towards the goal - sanity check + questions

evusik · September 2018

Hi guys,

I'd like to do a little sanity check with a couple of questions regarding my weight loss journey with more experienced folks. Any opinion / advice is welcome

I'm 29 years old female, height 174 cm (5 ft 8.5 inch).

I've started on June 9th, weighing 89 kg (196 lbs), waist 82 cm (32.3 inch)
Now (Sep 1st) I'm 78.8 kg (174 lbs), waist 74 cm (29.1 inch)
My short-term goal is 73 kg (161 lbs), which gets me to BMI 24.
My long-term goal is 63 kg (139 lbs) BMI 20.8, and then recomposition to get a bit of muscle definition and the athletic body I've never had My ultimate goal is to feel healthy, look good and have a sustainable lifestyle which allows me to have some life besides counting calories and sports

To illustrate what kind of body do I want (end goal):

I've been netting 5030 kJ (1200 kcal) most days, but in reality I eat 7000-9000 kJ (1670-2150 kcal) daily. I always try to get at least 100g protein, varying between 100-160g. My macros in MFP are set to 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fat, but I rarely get them spot on (usually go too low on carbs and too high on fat, without explicitly trying - I don't like elimination diets, so no keto for me

). I eat mostly vegetables, meat (incl. beef), eggs, dairy, fish and whole-wheat bread. My go-to treats are tasty (not the healthiest) protein bars, fruit and an occasional cake

I don't drink liquid calories except for decaf coffee with milk and without sugar (and I drink LOTS of it). No alcohol during the weight loss. I eat at restaurants but I try to log those meals as accurately as I can (avoiding anything fried). I take vitamins every day and get my blood checked thoroughly every 2-3 months because I've been chronically iron-deficient for at least 8 years now (so far, no cause discovered). Besides the iron being good only when I supplement it, my blood tests come back great, incl. vitamins etc. As part of trying to find the root cause of my iron deficiency, I've had gastroscopy and everything seems to be fine (I'm not gluten intolerant nor lactose intolerant etc.). The only other health issue I'm aware of is mild atopic eczema, currently under control.

I exercise every day, burning 2500-4500 kJ (560-1075 kcal). I eat back 50-100% of my exercise calories and I use only MFP for tracking (no HRM). I alternate days of:

60 min jogging + 60 min walking with dogs,
or 30 min calisthenics (Convict Conditioning) + 60 min walking with dogs.

I'm planning to change that to 60 min jogging + 60 min dog walking every day and doing calisthenics just while procrastinating at the computer or watching series - I realized I totally hate calisthenics when I have to do them in a longer uninterrupted session and I like jogging (it's become a meditation for me). We also have a home gym, so I can exercise with weights. I force myself into weight training because I've read a lot on why it's important and I need to learn to like it if I want the body from the image above

I have no idea what my activity level is - I have a sedentary office job, but I try to move around a lot (walking 15 min to & from the office, taking breaks to walk around etc. - no idea how many steps, Samsung Health says 20k steps daily, but that includes the jogging and dog walking.

All in all, I've been losing 0.84 kg (1.85 lbs) per week on average. Every month, my weight stagnates for 2 weeks and then I lose rapidly for the next 2 weeks (happened every month so far without significant changes to CICO). If everything goes according to the trend so far, I'll be normal weight in a month.

My questions are:

I'm going for a 2 week business trip to the US at the end of the month. I will eat mostly restaurant food and I'm conscious the portions in the US are supposed to be BIG and fatty compared to my usual meals. Does it make sense to use those 2 weeks as a diet break / refeed? I'll be approaching normal BMI at that time and I'm a bit afraid I will lose track and gain a lot, slowing my weight loss too much. I'm always too distracted on business trips, so logging accurately every day is going to be a challenge. On the other hand, I don't know if I have other options to be honest...
One of the main reasons I'm trying to lose weight is to be healthy for making a baby. We want to start trying in the middle of November. Keeping in mind I'll be TTC from then, being normal weight but still wanting to lose around 10 kg more, what should I do? Pause the weight loss effort completely and eat at maintenance? Continue losing at least until I know I'm pregnant? Is the same weight loss rate (netting 1200 kcal + exercise calories) ok? I don't feel weak or tired at all nowadays and my blood tests are great.
I know most people hate cardio and love weightlifting. If there's anyone like me who used to hate weights or calisthenics - do you have any tips how to learn to like it? I try to keep myself motivated by the health & looks benefits (I don't want to be "skinny fat"), but I still hate it
As I expect at least another 5-6 months of weight loss to get to my 63 kg goal before trying to re-composition, how often should I take diet breaks / refeeds? How long should they be? I've read here on the forums that one should gradually increase calories for a diet break, but this then makes it much much longer, doesn't it?

Sorry for such a long post - I wanted to include all the potentially relevant info. Thanks in advance for any opinions/advice - negative comments are very welcome as well if there is something wrong with my routine.

middlehaitch · September 2018

That was a long and exhausting read.
Basically.
If you want the body above, start lifting now. (Or as close as your genes will allow)
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

Up your calories so you are losing max 1lbs a week.

I found MFP cal burns worked for me and ate back 100% consistently.
Decide which percentage works for you and be consistent on eating that percentage back.
(You will have better control of your weight loss and maintenance this way)

1) yes a maintenance break will be good, log as best you can, remember you don't have to finish the large meal, you can get a doggy bag.

2) change to 0.5lbs a week when you are TTC, but talk your weight loss and exercise goals over with your PCP/gyn before you start.

3) I hated exercise, full stop when I first started. 10 years later it is a mild dislike. I keep doing it because it is good for me. Cardio and lifting.
You just have to recognize your why.

4)I'm no expert on diet breaks. So will not advise.

Cheers, h.

NextRightThing714 · September 2018

If you wait until you get down to 139 (arguably less than that model would weigh at 5' 8.5"), the recomp will take ages.

Stop doing so much cardio and start lifting.

Also, bodyweight training alone will only get you so far and it won't give you the body in the picture. Progressive overload is needed.

As for liking it, I started to really enjoy weight training when I started to see real progress in my strength. It's empowering. Good luck!

NextRightThing714 · September 2018

Oh, and a diet break sounds like a good idea. Your deficit is probably also too steep overall. We're the same height and our starting weights are similar. I've lost 30 ish pounds by eating 1800 *net*. Preserve muscle while you still have the chance. It is very hard to build.

evusik · September 2018

Thanks tons for the advice, but I'm a little bit confused - almost everywhere so far I've read that it's impossible to lose weight and build muscle at the same time. So, you guys are saying I should be in a milder deficit and I will be able to both lose & build muscle? Was it like that in your experience?

I don't cling to a particular number on a scale - I'd just like to have a healthy BMI and be as close to the body shape above as possible. I'm fine with heavy lifting (already googling progressive overload) if that's what it takes, I just thought it doesn't play well with being in deficit & losing weight.

NextRightThing714 · September 2018

A less severe deficit will help you maintain muscle you already have. If your deficit is too aggressive, you will lose existing muscle.

Gaining muscle, losing weight would be "recomp." It is possible (especially for those who are new to lifting) but it is excruciatingly slow.

NextRightThing714 · September 2018

I lost slowly (1 lb a week at the beginning and 0.25-0.5 lb a week near the end) and found that I was happier for it. The end result for me is a muscular/fit look but that requires... well... muscle. Save what muscle you can and you'll be happier after you lose the weight.

middlehaitch · September 2018

You retain more muscle while lifting in a deficit, and gain strength.

Muscles in constant use have a firm look, feel solid, and have a 'pump' post workout. Water retention makes it look as though you have gained muscle, you generally haven't.

The same muscle, not in use is flaccid and soft to the touch.

There is the possibility of actually gaining muscle mass while in a reasonable deficit, but it is a small gain.

You should have a smaller deficit now you have less to lose as with less fat to lose the body will start to using muscle for energy. Only so much fat can be mobilized for energy per day. (Something like 30cals per lbs of body fat. NB. I can't put my hands on the research right now so I may be off)

As an FYI, women under ideal conditions can only gain ~1lbs of muscle per month, half that of men.

Cheers, h.

Unknown · September 2018

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Katiebear_81 · September 2018

The other posters have given you lots of good advice. My bit would be this: If you genuinely want to look similar to the woman in the photo, give up your weight goals. Dollar to doughnuts, you'll need to weigh closer to 160-170 lbs to carry that amount of muscle mass on a 5'8"+ frame. And that's ok! I think it will be a lot easier on you mentally to chose between the number on the scale or the aesthetic, rather than trying to chase both. Not that you should ignore what the scale says, but get used to the idea that your "ideal" weight won't likely be 140 lbs.

evusik · September 2018

Thanks so much guys - this cleared up a lot. I will probably finish this month with just slightly more lifting than before (I don't have enough weights at home to avoid constantly dismantling everything after each other with my husband when we do our workouts). But I'll order more equipment and focus mostly on lifting by the end of the month (I should just about hit the normal BMI then). And I won't go for the lower weight goal of 63 kg (139 lbs) - I only wanted this because I thought it would be good to have some "reserve range" to gain muscle in.

Another question - what about cardio? I'm reading mixed opinions about cardio being detrimental vs. helpful for muscle building, HIIT vs low intensity... I really enjoy jogging, but I'm ok to start doing HIIT as well if it helps. Is it ok to use the weight lifting rest days for 60 min jogging session or 30 min HIIT session?

@alwaysbloated thanks so much, I'll cross fingers for you too! Let me know how it goes

AnnPT77 · September 2018

evusik wrote: »

Thanks so much guys - this cleared up a lot. I will probably finish this month with just slightly more lifting than before (I don't have enough weights at home to avoid constantly dismantling everything after each other with my husband when we do our workouts). But I'll order more equipment and focus mostly on lifting by the end of the month (I should just about hit the normal BMI then). And I won't go for the lower weight goal of 63 kg (139 lbs) - I only wanted this because I thought it would be good to have some "reserve range" to gain muscle in.

Another question - what about cardio? I'm reading mixed opinions about cardio being detrimental vs. helpful for muscle building, HIIT vs low intensity... I really enjoy jogging, but I'm ok to start doing HIIT as well if it helps. Is it ok to use the weight lifting rest days for 60 min jogging session or 30 min HIIT session?

@alwaysbloated thanks so much, I'll cross fingers for you too! Let me know how it goes

On the cardio front, do what you enjoy most. As long as you fuel your exercise adequately (i.e., don't lose weight too fast), and don't have so much total exercise volume that you're fatigued, cardio won't hinder your weight training.

If strength/muscle gain is your priority, do strength training first if you ever have a day where you're doing both.

No matter what the "gee whiz" fitness blogosphere says about amazing burns and EPOC ("afterburn"), the 60 minutes of jogging is likely to burn more total calories than 30 minutes of HIIT, but HIIT is likely to leave you more fatigued (assuming it's true max-effort intervals as HIIT ought to be).

Since you say you enjoy jogging, and I'm saying it will burn more calories (do the math, using an accurate calorie estimation source, if you're not sure), and will probably leave you with more energy for your everyday life, it seems like a simple win for jogging, to me. Just my opinion, though!

kshama2001 · September 2018

What is it you don't like about weights? My enjoyment for lifting went way up once I swapped high reps/low weights for low reps/high weights and didn't try to do cardio in the same session.

(And of course, an awesome playlist.)

evusik · September 2018

@AnnPT77 thanks tons for the reassurement - I'll enjoy my jogging then

At the moment, I alternate days of weights and cardio, sometimes doing a bit of cardio later the day I'd done weights, if I have time. I eat 50-100% of my calories back, depending on how I feel, but some days I go over, so when I take weekly CICO, it's as planned according to MFP set to lose 0.75-1 kg weekly (basically 1200 kcal + 100% excercise calories).

@kshama2001 good question

what I like about jogging is that I'm alone with my thoughts in a forest and I can let my mind wander - it's basically meditation for me. With weight lifting or calisthenics, I have to think about the activity itself, count reps, sets, think about what exercise comes next, track progress... I guess that's what I don't like. So it might become a bit less demanding with experience, or rather more automatic.
I already do low rep & high weight, and never do cardio in the same session. I don't have any special playlist, that might help a bit

GOT_Obsessed · September 2018

Re: The diet break (refeed at maintenance calories)

Yes be sure to do this. This is a way to reset your hormones to your new weight, give you maintenance practice, and give you a mental break from the lower calories you have been on.

Normally it is 1 to 2 weeks in length. I always did 10 days. And it's recommended about every 12 weeks. I highly recommend it. It kept me sane.

Great job on all your work so far.

kshama2001 · September 2018

evusik wrote: »

@AnnPT77 thanks tons for the reassurement - I'll enjoy my jogging then At the moment, I alternate days of weights and cardio, sometimes doing a bit of cardio later the day I'd done weights, if I have time. I eat 50-100% of my calories back, depending on how I feel, but some days I go over, so when I take weekly CICO, it's as planned according to MFP set to lose 0.75-1 kg weekly (basically 1200 kcal + 100% excercise calories).

@kshama2001 good question what I like about jogging is that I'm alone with my thoughts in a forest and I can let my mind wander - it's basically meditation for me. With weight lifting or calisthenics, I have to think about the activity itself, count reps, sets, think about what exercise comes next, track progress... I guess that's what I don't like. So it might become a bit less demanding with experience, or rather more automatic.
I already do low rep & high weight, and never do cardio in the same session. I don't have any special playlist, that might help a bit

Yes, it is much more automatic with experience

After I got used to my new routine I started doing it with the TV on. I recently switched up my routine and had to go back to just listening to music so I could concentrate. I think I will leave the TV off from now on, though, as it is more meditative without it.

Candyspun · September 2018

OP, I used to be a weight lifting junky and loved it. I'm still very passionate about it, but I had let go of my weight training over the years because work got very hectic, etc... Now, 20 years later, I'm getting back into my weight training, and really struggling with it. I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. But, I know why that is. It's because I'm not strong FROM the weight training, yet.

It gets easier the longer you do it. As you start adding extra weight to your training, you become very satisfied, and as your muscles start getting more solid, that is an amazing feeling, too. I'm sticking with it, because I know the enjoyment will come in time. I've already noticed changes in my muscles, and added extra weight to my lifting, and in time, that great feeling of enjoyment will come back. It's just really hard when you start out, sometimes.

evusik · September 2018

@GOT_Obsessed thanks so much for your encouragement. The diet break will be about 4 months since the weight loss start for me. Hope I'm going to be able to track, so that I get some meaningful data out of it as well (if my maintenance is really how much I think it is etc.).

Thanks @kshama2001 and @Candyspun for sharing your experience with lifting. I hope I'll stick with it and learn to like it - ordering the extra bars and weight tomorrow, yayy!

Almost halfway towards the goal - sanity check + questions

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