Keto and Cholesterol
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happytree923 wrote: »happytree923 wrote: »I denied her negative experience?
Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.
Ok, so Google U degree as suspected. Regardless of your qualifiers you clearly were trying to defend extreme low carb diets as healthy even if someone's blood work does not reflect that. Adding "IMO" does not make it ok to tell OP to disregard medical advice as you did in your last sentence. Bye.
So, what do you believe slightly elevated LDL will do to you? Do you think that is a risk factor for women?
If you think slightly elevated LDL is bad, that is your opinion. Unless you have evidence that slightly elevated LDL is dangerous for women with good HDL readings. Nothing definitive.
I can't answer that question for four reasons.
1. I have no information about OP's medical history (and neither do you).
2. I have no information about OP's family history (and neither do you).
3. I have no information about any other risk factors OP might have (and neither do you).
4. I'm not a doctor and neither are you.
You're also moving the goal posts, 'slightly elevated' is not what we're talking about. One-off slightly elevated lab results of any test are usually not cause for concern. Since OP came here to make this post, I am sure her doctor did not tell her that the results were insignificant. I'm not arguing whether or not xyz cholesterol level is good or bad. I have no idea because I have no training to assess an individual's heart disease risk. I'm telling you that the advice you are giving to ignore medical advice is irresponsible and heavily biased by your belief in completely unproven benefits of the keto diet. Stop.
The OPs cholesterol was almost abnormal, I believe. I don't think she said it was sky high. Just high enough that it was approaching the level that her doctor starts prescribing statins at. I'd have to re read it to be sure, but I believe there was no moving goal posts.
And no, I am not a doctor, nor claimed to be one. I gave my opinion in terms of what I would do. I assume the OP is intelligent and wanted opinions which she would then consider. I think it is unwise to rely wholly on one doctor's advice. In my experience, doctors make mistakes. If you aren't watching out for yourself, it can hurt your health. If you want to just rely on the doctor for all medical information rather than researching for yourself, that is a fine choice for you. It's not mine though.11 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.8 -
My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
How was your HDL this high? That seems astronomical for this particular type of lipoprotein.
I’m sorry, you’re right, that was my total cholesterol, not my HDL. Diet is very irritating to me because when I was younger I could eat anything. Everyone here has been amazing and I think that going the traditional way of eating is the better way of eating for me after all.
More fruits and veggies, less red meat, less fats, more legumes, everything in moderation ❤️
It's funny, I am reading a book that is suggesting that everything in your last sentence is a problem. Not saying it's right but I am just getting into it. "Big Fat Lie" is the title. So much conflicting information and so little time. Lots of ways to eat and I hope you find one that works well for you.
There are thousands of studies showing the benefits of plant based foods, especially fruits and veggies. There is a good amount of evidence supporting the benefit of MUFA and Omega-3, and i haven't seen that many studies showing thr benefits of red meat (quite contrary).
OP, i would probably add back in some fruits and vegetables, as well as focusing on weight loss and exercise. Those last time is how i improved my cholesterol.9 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.10 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.12 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
You were not giving dietary opinion, you were giving medical advice which is not only not your place but potentially dangerous.16 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Suggesting that someone ignore medical test results is not dietary advice. It’s medical advice. And bad medical advice at that.11 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication . High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Also, OP didn’t ask for such advice. They asked if high cholesterol is common and what macro breakdown they should shoot for now that they’re taking a more moderate approach to eating instead of following keto.8 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
You were not giving dietary opinion, you were giving medical advice which is not only not your place but potentially dangerous.
No. I said I would keep eating low carb.
Of course diet affects health, probably most aspects of health. But it is still diet.
7 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Suggesting that someone ignore medical test results is not dietary advice. It’s medical advice. And bad medical advice at that.
Again, I said that I would continue keto. I did not state the OP should do it.
The bad part is just your opinion.10 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication . High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Also, OP didn’t ask for such advice. They asked if high cholesterol is common and what macro breakdown they should shoot for now that they’re taking a more moderate approach to eating instead of following keto.
OP asked if high cholesterol is common in keto. I said no, it is not often caused by keto unless you have FH or look at total cholesterol rising because HDL is going up a lot. I said LDL is about the same but particle size typically improves.
But anyways, This is just nitpicking. I'll stop.6 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Suggesting that someone ignore medical test results is not dietary advice. It’s medical advice. And bad medical advice at that.
Again, I said that I would continue keto. I did not state the OP should do it.
The bad part is just your opinion.
You did not simply say that you would continue keto. You suggested that the OP should “completely ignore” their test results in regards to total cholesterol.
Backpedal all you want but when someone says “help, I have a problem” and you say “I would do X about it” you are suggesting that this is what they should do as well.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
You didn’t say “I ignore those numbers myself but that’s just me and you should discuss it with your doctor and follow their instructions.”
You just said “I would ignore it. Completely.”
That’s not dietary advice. That’s medical advice.13 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication . High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Also, OP didn’t ask for such advice. They asked if high cholesterol is common and what macro breakdown they should shoot for now that they’re taking a more moderate approach to eating instead of following keto.
OP asked if high cholesterol is common in keto. I said no, it is not often caused by keto unless you have FH or look at total cholesterol rising because HDL is going up a lot. I said LDL is about the same but particle size typically improves.
But anyways, This is just nitpicking. I'll stop.
You often find yourself in these type of discussions where you are then trying to justify, rationalize and walk back your statements. And it happens with multiple different people. Have you ever asked yourself why? And what the common denominator is?14 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Suggesting that someone ignore medical test results is not dietary advice. It’s medical advice. And bad medical advice at that.
Again, I said that I would continue keto. I did not state the OP should do it.
The bad part is just your opinion.
You did not simply say that you would continue keto. You suggested that the OP should “completely ignore” their test results in regards to total cholesterol.
Backpedal all you want but when someone says “help, I have a problem” and you say “I would do X about it” you are suggesting that this is what they should do as well.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
You didn’t say “I ignore those numbers myself but that’s just me and you should discuss it with your doctor and follow their instructions.”
You just said “I would ignore it. Completely.”
That’s not dietary advice. That’s medical advice.
Every medical organization recognizes that total cholesterol is pretty much worth. If you feel that is a valid data point, you are sadly mistaken (because HDL drives total cholesterol). And LDL is largely getting phased out because its weak links to health.
If someone has a concern, i wouldn't bother with a family doctor, but rather go to a specialist.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication . High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Also, OP didn’t ask for such advice. They asked if high cholesterol is common and what macro breakdown they should shoot for now that they’re taking a more moderate approach to eating instead of following keto.
OP asked if high cholesterol is common in keto. I said no, it is not often caused by keto unless you have FH or look at total cholesterol rising because HDL is going up a lot. I said LDL is about the same but particle size typically improves.
But anyways, This is just nitpicking. I'll stop.
You often find yourself in these type of discussions where you are then trying to justify, rationalize and walk back your statements. And it happens with multiple different people. Have you ever asked yourself why? And what the common denominator is?
Largely the augments are caused by personalities, not the information.4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »My HDL went up from 225 to 258 and my LDL went from 156 to 188. My Dr said at 190, they put you on medication. That’s the last thinking I want is to be on medication. High cholesterol runs on both sides of my family.
Your HDL is 258? Could you have that mixed up with total cholesterol? Total cholesterol is HDL+LDL (approximate). If 258 is your total, and LDL is 188, then your HDL would be upwards of 65-70, which is quite good.
Do you know what your triglycerides did?
The Great Cholesterol Myth, Cholesterol Con or even Cholesterol Clarity are good books on the matter. So is Teicholz's Big Fat Surprise.happytree923 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
Do you have a medical degree? What training do you have to say that something is or isn't a marker of CVD risk?
Some people react poorly to a keto diet. OP should listen to her DOCTOR and not keto dieters with Google U degrees. God it pisses me off when people deny each and every negative experience strangers have with their WOE because it challenges their magical thinking.
I denied her negative experience? Hardly. You'll note the use of the word "usually" over and over? The use of IMO? The use of the word "vary"? I think you have greatly overreacted.
No, I am not a medical doctor but I am widely read on cholesterol and diets. I've read many books and journal articles and everything reputable says the same thing that I wrote.
I know keto is not for everyone, but the vast majority of low carbers have their cholesterol respond in a certain way. Having a HDL go down, triglycerides go up, and LDL turn into a less favorable particle size is not typical. That's just the way it is. It isn't magic. Just what modern science has shown.Carlos_421 wrote: »What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
HDL usually goes up.
LDL reactions will vary. Sometimes up, down or stays the same. For most people though, the particle size and density improves which is a sign of good health.
Triglycerides usually go down with low carb although while losing they may be temporarily elevated. HDL and tri ratio is an okay indicator of CVD risk.
So if HDL goes up, and LDL stays around the same, then total cholesterol does go up.... Its a really poor marker of CVD risk, IMO.
Fasting ends to raise cholesterol too. If you fasted over 12 hours or ate very little in the days prior to testing, that could raise cholesterol too.
If familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
No. Just no.
Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
Recommending that they consult with their doctor about the results is fine. Telling them to wholly disregard them is not.
Besides, you're wrong. Total cholesterol is not something to completely ignore.
That's not what I said to do.
And no, I disagree. Total cholesterol is pretty weak as an indicator of CVD and can be often ignored - especially in women. HDL and triglycerides and LDL particle size are better indicators of health.
Yes, yes you did.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
I was disagreeing with what you wrote which was:Please don't tell someone to ignore the results of their blood work just because the recommended course of action is to abandon your favorite diet. It's grossly irresponsible.
That's not what I was saying. Holy over reaction Batman.
I believe I also wroteIf familial hypercholesterolemia runs in your family, then you may need to change your diet. If there is not a chance of FH, I would keep going. IMO.
It's a moot point anyways since the OP prefers to pursue a diet of moderation of all things. I always assume that people can think for themselves, and then all you can do is respect their decision.
So you don't deny that you told someone to ignore the results of their blood work (which is grossly irresponsible). You only deny that defense of keto was your motivation?
Got it.
All my statements stand.
I do not deny that I told the OP what I would do: ignore total cholesterol that was getting close to being considered high. It is what I would do.
You might take statins or eat an Ornish diet. I know what I would do.
Yes, you suggested that the OP completely ignore test results that put her on the borderline of being prescribed statins. Bravo.
<eye roll>
Op asked for advice. I said what I would do... I have no idea why you have a problem with dietary opinion being given in an MFP Forum on diet.
Suggesting that someone ignore medical test results is not dietary advice. It’s medical advice. And bad medical advice at that.
Again, I said that I would continue keto. I did not state the OP should do it.
The bad part is just your opinion.
You did not simply say that you would continue keto. You suggested that the OP should “completely ignore” their test results in regards to total cholesterol.
Backpedal all you want but when someone says “help, I have a problem” and you say “I would do X about it” you are suggesting that this is what they should do as well.What went up? If it was total cholesterol, I would ignore it. Completely.
You didn’t say “I ignore those numbers myself but that’s just me and you should discuss it with your doctor and follow their instructions.”
You just said “I would ignore it. Completely.”
That’s not dietary advice. That’s medical advice.
Every medical organization recognizes that total cholesterol is pretty much worth. If you feel that is a valid data point, you are sadly mistaken (because HDL drives total cholesterol). And LDL is largely getting phased out because its weak links to health.
If someone has a concern, i wouldn't bother with a family doctor, but rather go to a specialist.
There’s a big difference between saying “non-HDL cholesterol is a better indicator and more important than total cholesterol” and saying “ignore your total cholesterol completely.”
And either way, the backpedaling is extreme.6 -
Over what period of time did it go up? 3 months or a few years? When did you start keto? Does your doctor say the increase is due to Keto?
It could be that your familial high cholesterol is kicking in. I would ask for referral to a registered dietician if doctor feels it can be controlled by diet.0 -
I think someone here considers Statins are totally without any issues, that they are the cure all for everyone which regrettably they are not. A person has the right to choose, try dietary interventions to see if they will do anything to improve their situation rather than take to the heavy expensive pharmaceutical guns which could be unnecessary. I know several people here in the UK who have turned down statins because of the potential issues. Each to their own. I prefer dietary methods if at all possible.2
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