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An insurance company wants you to hand over your Fitbit data so it can make more money. Should you?
NorthCascades
Posts: 10,968 Member
in Debate Club
Saw this in in the Washington Post today, and thought it would be appreciated here. (Given another thread on the front page, I'll repeat that this is the Washington Post not the Huffington Post.)
Life insurance company John Hancock made a splash last week with the news that soon all its policies would come bundled with the option to let the company track your fitness — via either a website and app, or through the use of a fitness tracker like an Apple Watch or Fitbit.
The move underscores how fitness tracker data is an as-yet largely untapped gold mine for businesses — particularly in industries like insurance, whose financial bottom line directly depends on the health of their customers. John Hancock isn’t particularly shy about this: “The longer people live, the more money we make,” as the company’s CEO, Brooks Tingle, put it to the New York Times.
The published research on Fitbits and similar devices, however, has yet to uncover a clear link between fitness tracking and fitness, to say nothing of longevity and mortality, or of insurance companies' profits. But there is some solid evidence that if the use of the devices is paired with incentives like rewards, challenges and leaderboards (“gamified,” in social science parlance) people can see real health benefits. It’s probably no accident, then, that the John Hancock policies lean heavily on those kinds of incentives.
The big question: Will potential insurance customers buy it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/25/an-insurance-company-wants-you-hand-over-your-fitbit-data-so-they-can-make-more-money-should-you/
Life insurance company John Hancock made a splash last week with the news that soon all its policies would come bundled with the option to let the company track your fitness — via either a website and app, or through the use of a fitness tracker like an Apple Watch or Fitbit.
The move underscores how fitness tracker data is an as-yet largely untapped gold mine for businesses — particularly in industries like insurance, whose financial bottom line directly depends on the health of their customers. John Hancock isn’t particularly shy about this: “The longer people live, the more money we make,” as the company’s CEO, Brooks Tingle, put it to the New York Times.
The published research on Fitbits and similar devices, however, has yet to uncover a clear link between fitness tracking and fitness, to say nothing of longevity and mortality, or of insurance companies' profits. But there is some solid evidence that if the use of the devices is paired with incentives like rewards, challenges and leaderboards (“gamified,” in social science parlance) people can see real health benefits. It’s probably no accident, then, that the John Hancock policies lean heavily on those kinds of incentives.
The big question: Will potential insurance customers buy it?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/09/25/an-insurance-company-wants-you-hand-over-your-fitbit-data-so-they-can-make-more-money-should-you/
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Replies
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Only if there was no negative - i.e., they could not charge more for the people who were not 'active enough' to meet their criteria. It would have to be bonuses paid out or fitness activities/lifestyle.9
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I average 12-15k steps a day, so if a company was willing to incentivize what I'm doing anyway, I'd probably be happy.
On the other hand, I allowed Liberty Mutual to track my driving and I regret it. They gave a small discount just for signing up, so no downside yet; but based on my results, I wouldn't be surprised if they did penalize me at some point.2 -
I just spent two days at an insurance industry conference that in part dealt with exactly this.
The sad reality is that they probably already HAVE most of your data. The actual benefits to the company of you allowing a device to track your driving or fitness is that you are more likely to actually modify your behavior for the better if you know someone is actively watching you.9 -
My insurance company offers this. Both my spouse and I can earn up to $3/day for hitting certain step goals. $1 for walking 500 steps in 5min 6x/day, $1 for walking 3k steps in 30min, and $1 for walking 10k overall steps per day. The $6/day goes towards our HSA.
It's no incentive for my husband. He refuses to wear a step tracker, so I wear two. I'm already pretty active, so it doesn't really change my habits. In fact, it pisses me off because I can have a 2hr gym session and only earn a few steps because I mainly lift and row for cardio. I have to strap it to my ankle when biking. The only thing it encourages me is to do the 30min of higher intensity cardio per day which I get in via playing a virtual reality game most nights. I wish they tracked other things than just steps.10 -
Only if there was no negative - i.e., they could not charge more for the people who were not 'active enough' to meet their criteria. It would have to be bonuses paid out or fitness activities/lifestyle.
If you get a bonus by having a fitbit, then it DOES cost more if you don't track or aren't active enough. Call that a base rate if you want, it's still costs that person more.4 -
This is LIFE INSURANCE.
They already require all kinds of health screens before they underwrite you and you can be cancelled. I can see where health insurance companies might get pushback against this, but life insurance? Meh.4 -
WJS_jeepster wrote: »I just spent two days at an insurance industry conference that in part dealt with exactly this.
The sad reality is that they probably already HAVE most of your data. The actual benefits to the company of you allowing a device to track your driving or fitness is that you are more likely to actually modify your behavior for the better if you know someone is actively watching you.
=Hawthorne Effect
My health insurance actually does include activity/fitbit tracking as a part of a "wellness" program incentive to get a yearly discount; however, it is not mandatory nor is there any goal to meet (they want data (voluntary) but no objective measures like cholesterol, BP, weight/BMI, smoking status to hit). Seems plausible in the future to include such incentive into getting a discount
I just think it's BS I have to waste my time & other Healthcare workers' time documenting & filling out paper work so I don't need to pay as much money (questionable whether this "discount" is really just an add on as overall cost)4 -
WJS_jeepster wrote: »I just spent two days at an insurance industry conference that in part dealt with exactly this.
The sad reality is that they probably already HAVE most of your data. The actual benefits to the company of you allowing a device to track your driving or fitness is that you are more likely to actually modify your behavior for the better if you know someone is actively watching you.
This is why I go to the gym instead of working out at home. I pretend that people are actually judging me (when I know they're not), so that I'll actually push myself more than I would at home.9 -
I think this will be an easier sell than if it were a health insurance company. I wouldn't though. Nor would I agree to let my car insurance company track my driving. Not because I'm out breaking land speed records. It just didn't sit well with me to give them more information than necessary.
It's the same reason I don't have a LinkedIn account (or IG, or Snapchat) and keep my FB locked down as much as possible (I really should ditch that, but it's how I keep up with extended family).
If anyone needs me, I'll be the one wearing the tin foil hat
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I think this will be an easier sell than if it were a health insurance company. I wouldn't though. Nor would I agree to let my car insurance company track my driving. Not because I'm out breaking land speed records. It just didn't sit well with me to give them more information than necessary.
It's the same reason I don't have a LinkedIn account (or IG, or Snapchat) and keep my FB locked down as much as possible (I really should ditch that, but it's how I keep up with extended family).
If anyone needs me, I'll be the one wearing the tin foil hat
I knew there was something I liked about you. I'm pretty much the same way. Except I don't even use FB that much.
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Well. I've had breast cancer twice, so if letting them track my steps meant they'd insure me, I'd be all for it! ;D16
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My health insurance has a 'voluntary' program that wants your Fitbit data, medical tests, dental screenings, etc to get a cash incentive. Really they just raised our rates to push everyone onto an invasive program. It's not required but it'll cost you $100/mo if you don't get enough points.
You can get most of the money by doing some online nutrition classes and the steps though.5 -
Never and life insurance is a waste of money. Who knows what they will do with your info5
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mom23mangos wrote: »My insurance company offers this. Both my spouse and I can earn up to $3/day for hitting certain step goals. $1 for walking 500 steps in 5min 6x/day, $1 for walking 3k steps in 30min, and $1 for walking 10k overall steps per day. The $6/day goes towards our HSA.
It's no incentive for my husband. He refuses to wear a step tracker, so I wear two. I'm already pretty active, so it doesn't really change my habits. In fact, it pisses me off because I can have a 2hr gym session and only earn a few steps because I mainly lift and row for cardio. I have to strap it to my ankle when biking. The only thing it encourages me is to do the 30min of higher intensity cardio per day which I get in via playing a virtual reality game most nights. I wish they tracked other things than just steps.
So you're wearing trackers for both you and your spouse to earn 2 bonuses?3 -
Yeah. He actually does do enough walking to meet the goals, but won’t wear it because it’s not “fashionable “.
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I get fewer steps than a lot of you most days, I'm a cyclist. I rode 15 hilly miles today, and do anywhere from 75 to 100 miles in a week. But those aren't steps.3
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NorthCascades wrote: »I get fewer steps than a lot of you most days, I'm a cyclist. I rode 15 hilly miles today, and do anywhere from 75 to 100 miles in a week. But those aren't steps.
This is the part that bugs me. I'm lifting weights because I think I should, and not because I enjoy it. So I wouldn't get "points" for that?
I do get what they are trying to do, but it really is more about getting sedentary people to move than to reward those actually already doing activities.3 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I get fewer steps than a lot of you most days, I'm a cyclist. I rode 15 hilly miles today, and do anywhere from 75 to 100 miles in a week. But those aren't steps.
This is the part that bugs me. I'm lifting weights because I think I should, and not because I enjoy it. So I wouldn't get "points" for that?
I do get what they are trying to do, but it really is more about getting sedentary people to move than to reward those actually already doing activities.
Agree! It's like those weight loss contests at work, where you can win a prize for losing X percent of your body weight. Which excludes all of us who are at a healthy weight already. There's no prizes for starting off healthy and staying that way for the duration of the contest.
I also have a real issue using something like a step-counter to monitor activity for incentive. Aside from all the people who do activities that don't include steps, what about all the people (and we are legion) who work in an environment where it's forbidden to bring in any device that has any kind of connectivity with any other device. Mechanical step counters would be fine, but how would you get the data?6 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I get fewer steps than a lot of you most days, I'm a cyclist. I rode 15 hilly miles today, and do anywhere from 75 to 100 miles in a week. But those aren't steps.
This is the part that bugs me. I'm lifting weights because I think I should, and not because I enjoy it. So I wouldn't get "points" for that?
I do get what they are trying to do, but it really is more about getting sedentary people to move than to reward those actually already doing activities.
Agree! It's like those weight loss contests at work, where you can win a prize for losing X percent of your body weight. Which excludes all of us who are at a healthy weight already. There's no prizes for starting off healthy and staying that way for the duration of the contest.
I also have a real issue using something like a step-counter to monitor activity for incentive. Aside from all the people who do activities that don't include steps, what about all the people (and we are legion) who work in an environment where it's forbidden to bring in any device that has any kind of connectivity with any other device. Mechanical step counters would be fine, but how would you get the data?
The place I used to work gave out a bunch of generic cheap wrist trackers and did a contest as a part of "The Summer of Wellness", which they did because our insurance rates and sick time used were sky high. Teams of 4, most steps for the week won gift cards, gym memberships, that sort of thing. They intended to do it all summer.
First week, the three top teams were averaging 30,000 steps a day PER PERSON. There were two guys who had over 50,000 steps daily. People were sitting at there desks swinging their arm as they worked. People were telling stories of putting the tracker on the dog and letting it out back every night, putting it on their toddler, that sort of thing. No one got any prizes and the contest was eliminated.
I'll add, I have a Fitbit on my non-dominant wrist daily and it rarely credits me many unearned steps. But I could easily get it too if I wanted.
I would not participate in the OP program. My cynical side is sure "they" already know far more about my day-to-day life than I'm comfortable with. But the idea of willingly giving them access and not really knowing how much data that really is and what it could theoretically be used for (and make me pay for) raises alarms for the curmudgeon in me.5 -
Um, yeah. This seems like it could be verging kind of close to, um, that thing (oh, what's the word? ...you know, it starts with 'f' and ends with 'd' and rhymes with "flawed"?).mom23mangos wrote: »My insurance company offers this. Both my spouse and I can earn up to $3/day for hitting certain step goals. $1 for walking 500 steps in 5min 6x/day, $1 for walking 3k steps in 30min, and $1 for walking 10k overall steps per day. The $6/day goes towards our HSA.
It's no incentive for my husband. He refuses to wear a step tracker, so I wear two. I'm already pretty active, so it doesn't really change my habits. In fact, it pisses me off because I can have a 2hr gym session and only earn a few steps because I mainly lift and row for cardio. I have to strap it to my ankle when biking. The only thing it encourages me is to do the 30min of higher intensity cardio per day which I get in via playing a virtual reality game most nights. I wish they tracked other things than just steps.
So you're wearing trackers for both you and your spouse to earn 2 bonuses?
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Tacklewasher wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I get fewer steps than a lot of you most days, I'm a cyclist. I rode 15 hilly miles today, and do anywhere from 75 to 100 miles in a week. But those aren't steps.
This is the part that bugs me. I'm lifting weights because I think I should, and not because I enjoy it. So I wouldn't get "points" for that?
I do get what they are trying to do, but it really is more about getting sedentary people to move than to reward those actually already doing activities.
Agree! It's like those weight loss contests at work, where you can win a prize for losing X percent of your body weight. Which excludes all of us who are at a healthy weight already. There's no prizes for starting off healthy and staying that way for the duration of the contest.
I also have a real issue using something like a step-counter to monitor activity for incentive. Aside from all the people who do activities that don't include steps, what about all the people (and we are legion) who work in an environment where it's forbidden to bring in any device that has any kind of connectivity with any other device. Mechanical step counters would be fine, but how would you get the data?
The place I used to work gave out a bunch of generic cheap wrist trackers and did a contest as a part of "The Summer of Wellness", which they did because our insurance rates and sick time used were sky high. Teams of 4, most steps for the week won gift cards, gym memberships, that sort of thing. They intended to do it all summer.
First week, the three top teams were averaging 30,000 steps a day PER PERSON. There were two guys who had over 50,000 steps daily. People were sitting at there desks swinging their arm as they worked. People were telling stories of putting the tracker on the dog and letting it out back every night, putting it on their toddler, that sort of thing. No one got any prizes and the contest was eliminated.
I'll add, I have a Fitbit on my non-dominant wrist daily and it rarely credits me many unearned steps. But I could easily get it too if I wanted.
I would not participate in the OP program. My cynical side is sure "they" already know far more about my day-to-day life than I'm comfortable with. But the idea of willingly giving them access and not really knowing how much data that really is and what it could theoretically be used for (and make me pay for) raises alarms for the curmudgeon in me.
Ha, we had a similar program for a year, and yup, people were averaging up to 35000 steps daily, which coincidently was the max number of steps you could get credit for. While holding down full time jobs.0 -
I only have 6,700 steps today, and I'm winding down for the night.
But I rode 40 miles today, over the highest paved mountain pass in my state, from the valley floor below. It was 4,000 feet of up. Took me almost 4 hours.
From a steps point of view, I look like I had a fairly sedentary day. I mean it's Saturday, I didn't have to spend the day sitting at a desk. It would not be in my best interest to share my step data today.
Of course, I'm going hiking tomorrow.
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I'd do it if they'll give me a nice Garmin watch to track my laps in the pool. My steps might be nothing, but give me an hour and a half in the pool, and yeah, I'm working hard.1
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PowerliftingMom wrote: »Never and life insurance is a waste of money. Who knows what they will do with your info
If you die and leave little kids their guardians that will raise them for x numbet of years probably would disagree with you7 -
I would love to see data on how this is viewed across demographics. I would imagine most American adults would be against this - viewing this as an intrusion of privacy. Are children, teens, young adults as wary of the invasion of technology and gamification of behavior?
I would support this if and only if this would end up as a shared cost savings to customers, which it won't, so I am against it.2 -
I would love to see data on how this is viewed across demographics. I would imagine most American adults would be against this - viewing this as an intrusion of privacy. Are children, teens, young adults as wary of the invasion of technology and gamification of behavior?
I would support this if and only if this would end up as a shared cost savings to customers, which it won't, so I am against it.
Younger generation seems more willing of sharing information; just look @ the explosion of social media (albeit this can be used to create misinformation too). I'm also not very confident these would result in cost savings...more like a justification to work against paying more additional fees (fights insurance companies on a daily basis as part of my job...insurance is constantly working against any freedom of choice for both prescribers and patients...drug, qty allowed, cost threshold, locations of choice, etc...got to save EVERY penny).0 -
The number of steps, I don't have a problem with. I share my daily numbers with my employer in the summer, I get a little bit of cash for it.
Heart rate data, though, I feel like there will be some way to misuse that. I have no idea what it would be, but I can't shake the feeling.3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »The number of steps, I don't have a problem with. I share my daily numbers with my employer in the summer, I get a little bit of cash for it.
Heart rate data, though, I feel like there will be some way to misuse that. I have no idea what it would be, but I can't shake the feeling.
My immediate though is increase in heart rate is often an early sign of illness. So, when average heart rate starts going up they start increasing your premium or something? Could that be considered a pre-qualifying condition down the road that would effect future coverage options? (this is my speculation, not something I know is happening/ in future plans)3 -
NorthCascades wrote: »The number of steps, I don't have a problem with. I share my daily numbers with my employer in the summer, I get a little bit of cash for it.
Heart rate data, though, I feel like there will be some way to misuse that. I have no idea what it would be, but I can't shake the feeling.
I think number of steps is a bad idea, as it focuses on only one aspect. Nothing for lifting or cycling. So if I'm running half marathons I get more credit than when you go for a long bike ride? And now that winter is setting in and I'm back to more weights, I lose out for running less?
I don't know. It all sounds to "iffy" to me to be useful on the individual basis. Kinda like insurers basing rates partly on BMI.2 -
I am more than a collection of behaviors and preferences for someone else to monetize.
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
I'll see myself out.6
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