should I cut or bulk first?
prea8158
Posts: 24 Member
hi everyone, i started to cut my calories and excursize regulalry,as well as get rid of all junk and sugary drinks ive managed in the 3 month period to loose 10 lbs,i defo fit better in clothes, have more definition on my chest and tummy but i want abs, i know to have abs i need to be about 10% body fat percentage but i dont evan know what body fat percentage i am and does cutting lower bodyfat percentage if it does shall i cut first then bulk?
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Hard to say. Willing to post a photo of yourself currently?1
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Cutting is just a term for being in a fat loss phase, so it should lower your body fat percentage.
What are you stats? (height, weight, age, training history, and photo (if you're comfortable sharing one) This will help get you the best and most specific advice.
Generic advice for men is to cut to 10-12% body fat and bulk back to ~15%, repeat. Building muscle is most efficient in this range where it should be able to be done without gaining too much excess fat, so long as the bulk is done at a reasonable calorie surplus.
Regarding your pursuit of abs, getting lean is a big part of the equation but it's not the whole story; you need to have some muscle under there to show off under the fat you'll be losing. It could very well take some time and a few cycles of cut/bulking to get to the physique you're looking for, depending on your training history.0 -
He is 5'9, 144 lbs and eating 1300 calories per day, per his other thread.4
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quiksylver296 wrote: »He is 5'9, 144 lbs and eating 1300 calories per day, per his other thread.
That being the case, I think lifting while eating at maintenance or a lean bulk would be the best course of action. At 144lbs, OP is below average within the confines or "normal" BMI and I think losing any more weight is going to be counter-productive in the long term. Without knowing definitive BF% I'm guessing that's fairly lean (~12%) going by my own experience. I'm 6'1 and got down to 158-159 right before getting married in 2013, which was prior to starting lifting and given where my untrained lean mass was I was right around that 12% mark at that weight which also coincides with a very similar BMI (obviously not directly correlating metrics but rolling with the information that I have). OP, if you're not already on an established lifting plan, get on one. Incrementally increase your calories up to your TDEE (2200ish?).4 -
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ive only been lifting for few weeks so im guessing that I still have newbie Gains on my side , but you would recommend a lean bulk in order to get abs?, will this lower my bf%? because I don't want to bulk if I then have to cut a lot of fat or weight again, as well as worrying about cutting and losing muscle. I also don't want to bulk if i still have a bit of fat on my stomach but in some light I can see abs
By definition, a lean bulk is aimed to add muscle and with as little fat possible and is done by lifting while eating a small surplus (100-250 calories/day). My thought is that being relatively untrained you might not have a whole lot of ab muscle to show off under what stomach fat you're carrying now and developing them using heavy compound lifts and maybe some isolation work (if they're that big of an emphasis for you) may very well do just as much to improve their look as losing fat. I'm also assuming you're wanting to gain muscle in other areas, not just have abs?
In short, a lean bulk isn't going to get you abs right away; you'll eventually need to cut back down after you've added some size all-around. However, in my judgement, your best physique in the long run comes from maximizing those beginner gains with eating at least at maintenance and worrying about abs a little further down the road when you've built your base.2 -
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Yes, add overall size/strength and then worry about getting ripped abs later.
As far as calories, I've been tracking my TDEE for over a year while lifting 3-6x/week on various programs and find that it aligns well with the calculator linked below set at "lightly active". Eat somewhere between the number you get for TDEE (effectively "Maintenance" level) and that number +250. Track your weight while doing so for a few weeks and adjust accordingly if you're gaining more or less than 0.5 lbs/week on average (or 2lb/month).
https://tdeecalculator.net/
NOTE: there are plenty of other calculators out there too if you find one you like better.
For a relative beginner you're going to want a proven program that incorporates linear progression. I've found r/fitness to be a great resource for highly recommended programs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/recommended_routines
Proper form should be your first priority; you can't progress if you can't lift because you're injured.
Regarding intermittent fasting, it doesn't matter, eat whenever you like and make sure you're getting your calories for the day with sufficient protein to build muscle: 0.6-0.8g/lb, 86-115g and fats & carbs to personal preference.2 -
Yes, add overall size/strength and then worry about getting ripped abs later.
As far as calories, I've been tracking my TDEE for over a year while lifting 3-6x/week on various programs and find that it aligns well with the calculator linked below set at "lightly active". Eat somewhere between the number you get for TDEE (effectively "Maintenance" level) and that number +250. Track your weight while doing so for a few weeks and adjust accordingly if you're gaining more or less than 0.5 lbs/week on average (or 2lb/month).
https://tdeecalculator.net/
NOTE: there are plenty of other calculators out there too if you find one you like better.
For a relative beginner you're going to want a proven program that incorporates linear progression. I've found r/fitness to be a great resource for highly recommended programs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/recommended_routines
Proper form should be your first priority; you can't progress if you can't lift because you're injured.
Regarding intermittent fasting, it doesn't matter, eat whenever you like and make sure you're getting your calories for the day with sufficient protein to build muscle: 0.6-0.8g/lb, 86-115g and fats & carbs to personal preference.
I forgot to add, you'll want to gradually up your calories, not just go from 1300/day to over 2000 overnight.2 -
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get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth8
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
Rough, but you're right, eyes go to that as soon as you scroll to the picture. Need the eyewash stand.6 -
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
can u tell many any good programs, its the only picture I had that was current ,so I clean bulk and then cut later
The bolded is a bit of an issue.
To your question, look for a program that emphasizes coupound lifts, not some bro thing that has you standing in front of a mirror doing multuple sets of different forms of curls. Think squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups and presses.
There is a stickie in this subforum with some ideas. Don't be real concerned with bulking/cutting/clean/dirty bulk at this time. Just lift, make sure you get adequate protein (most sources will suggest .8 to 1 pound per pound of bodyweight) and consume maybe an extra 200 calories or so a day (unless you find you're losing weight quickly, then up to 300). Do this for 6 months or so and evaluate. Good luck.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p10 -
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Packerjohn wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
can u tell many any good programs, its the only picture I had that was current ,so I clean bulk and then cut later
The bolded is a bit of an issue.
To your question, look for a program that emphasizes coupound lifts, not some bro thing that has you standing in front of a mirror doing multuple sets of different forms of curls. Think squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups and presses.
There is a stickie in this subforum with some ideas. Don't be real concerned with bulking/cutting/clean/dirty bulk at this time. Just lift, make sure you get adequate protein (most sources will suggest .8 to 1 pound per pound of bodyweight) and consume maybe an extra 200 calories or so a day (unless you find you're losing weight quickly, then up to 300). Do this for 6 months or so and evaluate. Good luck.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
soo far i have been doing squats, pull ups ,dead lifts bench press and more no just curls
Some may have their own favorites, but what you posted is directionally similar to the beginner programs in the stickie. Good start IMO.0 -
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does it matter which one I pick? because theres a big list of beginner onesPackerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
can u tell many any good programs, its the only picture I had that was current ,so I clean bulk and then cut later
The bolded is a bit of an issue.
To your question, look for a program that emphasizes coupound lifts, not some bro thing that has you standing in front of a mirror doing multuple sets of different forms of curls. Think squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups and presses.
There is a stickie in this subforum with some ideas. Don't be real concerned with bulking/cutting/clean/dirty bulk at this time. Just lift, make sure you get adequate protein (most sources will suggest .8 to 1 pound per pound of bodyweight) and consume maybe an extra 200 calories or so a day (unless you find you're losing weight quickly, then up to 300). Do this for 6 months or so and evaluate. Good luck.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
soo far i have been doing squats, pull ups ,dead lifts bench press and more no just curls
Some may have their own favorites, but what you posted is directionally similar to the beginner programs in the stickie. Good start IMO.
If your workout facility has all the equipment needed, not really. As I mention, what you're doing is IMO good at this point and very similar in content/volume to most of the programs listed. Just do it consistently, movements in good form for 3-6 months and reevaluate1 -
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Packerjohn wrote: »
does it matter which one I pick? because theres a big list of beginner onesPackerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
can u tell many any good programs, its the only picture I had that was current ,so I clean bulk and then cut later
The bolded is a bit of an issue.
To your question, look for a program that emphasizes coupound lifts, not some bro thing that has you standing in front of a mirror doing multuple sets of different forms of curls. Think squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups and presses.
There is a stickie in this subforum with some ideas. Don't be real concerned with bulking/cutting/clean/dirty bulk at this time. Just lift, make sure you get adequate protein (most sources will suggest .8 to 1 pound per pound of bodyweight) and consume maybe an extra 200 calories or so a day (unless you find you're losing weight quickly, then up to 300). Do this for 6 months or so and evaluate. Good luck.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
soo far i have been doing squats, pull ups ,dead lifts bench press and more no just curls
Some may have their own favorites, but what you posted is directionally similar to the beginner programs in the stickie. Good start IMO.
If your workout facility has all the equipment needed, not really. As I mention, what you're doing is IMO good at this point and very similar in content/volume to most of the programs listed. Just do it consistently, movements in good form for 3-6 months and reevaluate
so just do what im doing at the Moment but consistently and eating more calories than I Was, I was recently eating 1300 cals to cut but ill just increase it to 2500
Eat a couple hundred more than your maintenance calories. Don't know what that would be, 2500+/- 10% would be my guess, given limited information, but determine on your own.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »pinggolfer96 wrote: »get your hand out of your pants you nasty. and you "want abs" yet you have zero muscle mass. why don't you get on a good program and build some muscle, otherwise you'll just be skinny fat / skin and bones if you cut right now. sorry to be blunt but its the truth
can u tell many any good programs, its the only picture I had that was current ,so I clean bulk and then cut later
The bolded is a bit of an issue.
To your question, look for a program that emphasizes coupound lifts, not some bro thing that has you standing in front of a mirror doing multuple sets of different forms of curls. Think squats, deadlifts, rows, pullups and presses.
There is a stickie in this subforum with some ideas. Don't be real concerned with bulking/cutting/clean/dirty bulk at this time. Just lift, make sure you get adequate protein (most sources will suggest .8 to 1 pound per pound of bodyweight) and consume maybe an extra 200 calories or so a day (unless you find you're losing weight quickly, then up to 300). Do this for 6 months or so and evaluate. Good luck.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
would this be ok as I think some of these have compound lifts https://old.reddit.com/r/Fitness/wiki/phraks-gslp
Yes, that sort of linear progression program is exactly what you should be doing at this stage.0 -
Beginner programs like 5 by 5, ice cream fitness, stronglifts, 3 day a week PPL...etc.0
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pinggolfer96 wrote: »Beginner programs like 5 by 5, ice cream fitness, stronglifts, 3 day a week PPL...etc.
FWIW Phrak’s Greyskull LP is pretty similar to those programs you listed and the recommended true beginner program on r/fitness0
This discussion has been closed.
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