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Intermittent Fasting/Clean Fasting Debate
Replies
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What narrative are you accusing me of cherry picking for, Anvilhead? I've said repeatedly that I provided links of studies because people were complaining that no links were provided other than that of some doctor I never heard of who was being called a quack. I didn't say that the studies proved one theory or another. I was just trying to defend the person in the original thread who was being attacked and asked to defend her position with links when all she had done was ask if anyone had tried IF.The word "nonsense" was one person's entire comment on the original thread. I wrote my post and provided the links before the moderator separated the thread into two sections.
Of course I know that "may have some benefits" doesn't prove anything positive about IF, but it does point to possibilities beyond "it's all woo and nonsense," which seems to be the locked in, closed minded attitude of this forum's in-crowd.
I know the difference between a research study and an opinion from someone like Dr. Oz. I didn't link to anything like that did I? I also know the difference between a scientific study and the opinion of an anonymous, self-proclaimed expert on a message board.
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Slowfaster wrote: »What narrative are you accusing me of cherry picking for, Anvilhead? I've said repeatedly that I provided links of studies because people were complaining that no links were provided other than that of some doctor I never heard of who was being called a quack. I didn't say that the studies proved one theory or another. I was just trying to defend the person in the original thread who was being attacked and asked to defend her position with links when all she had done was ask if anyone had tried IF.The word "nonsense" was one person's entire comment on the original thread. I wrote my post and provided the links before the moderator separated the thread into two sections.
Of course I know that "may have some benefits" doesn't prove anything positive about IF, but it does point to possibilities beyond "it's all woo and nonsense," which seems to be the locked in, closed minded attitude of this forum's in-crowd.
I know the difference between a research study and an opinion from someone like Dr. Oz. I didn't link to anything like that did I? I also know the difference between a scientific study and the opinion of an anonymous, self-proclaimed expert on a message board.
The OP, who asked if anyone had done IF, was NOT being attacked. IF was not being attacked. A replying poster was talking about "clean fasting" and the extra benefits it provides. THAT is what was being called nonsense and was being questioned for cited sources. You are arguing with things that no one has said.
When we ask for links to cited sources, we ask for cited sources that back up the claim. The claim waslyssamichelle wrote: »What is clean fasting? That's not a phrase I've heard before...
Basically you just drink water, black coffee unsweetened tea. Anything with flavor spikes your insulin levels. Some stuff is in the gray area. Like lemon in water. As in it's completely dependent on the person. When your insulin levels are spiked your body, it stops your body from healing. It takes about 3 weeks for your body to adjust and start healing itself. This is just a super short summary though lol.
Are you saying that questioning this statement makes us closed-minded?14 -
Edit: nm8
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You are arguing with things that no one has said.
When we ask for links to cited sources, we ask for cited sources that back up
I'm not trying to argue at all. I posted some current links about IF on a thread about IF. I thought they were interesting and pertinent to the topic.
Who is this "we," you keep referring to? Are you a moderator and are you speaking for board policy? If so, I wonder why some opinions require cited sources while other opinions, like the often repeated one that only calories count in weight loss, never require cited sources.
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Slowfaster wrote: »
You are arguing with things that no one has said.
When we ask for links to cited sources, we ask for cited sources that back up
I'm not trying to argue at all. I posted some current links about IF on a thread about IF. I thought they were interesting and pertinent to the topic.
Who is this "we," you keep referring to? Are you a moderator and are you speaking for board policy? If so, I wonder why some opinions require cited sources while other opinions, like the often repeated one that only calories count in weight loss, never require cited sources.
No I'm not a moderator. I meant we as in those of us in this thread who asked for sources. We weren't asking for sources about IF. We were specifically asking that one poster where she got the idea that IF only "works" if you do clean fasting and that insulin hinders the body healing. That's really it.
Those of us who post here a lot often ask posters who give advise that we believe to be unfounded or untrue based on the research we've done. If they link us to the source of the information, then we can either learn something new or explain why we still believe the claim to be innacurate. Most of us wasted a lot of time chasing diet industry woo before we got here, and I'd like to save newbies that time if I can. I wish someone had done that for me sooner!
I'm honestly not sure what we are debating at this point, and I guess the poster we were all debating originally is not coming back, so I'm going to bow out.15 -
stevencloser wrote: »Intermittent fasting is great! Im currently doing the 20:4 fast and it's working wonders. IF is the fastest growing fitness trend and it actually works! Above all it's free which is why there is a big backlash against it. Many weight loss companies and fitness gurus have a lot to lose because it's simple to do and you don't need to buy books or programs to do it. Cheers to a healtheir future!
IF is simply choosing when to eat. What works is if it helps you create a calorie deficit by eating less.
Exactly. I never understand this "it works!" stuff. I always ask "for what" but never get an answer. I have done IF 16/8 for years. It works if I watch calories. I have lost, gianed and maintained all while doing IF.
I think the statement about companies and fitness gurus having a lot to lose sounds like tin foil hat stuff. If it had some kind of magical weight loss properties, they'd all use it as part of their toolkit. It's not copyrighted.
Same to the bolded. I noticed years and years ago when my oldest was a baby that on mornings when I didn't have time to eat that I wasn't as hungry throughout the day, so I just started skipping breakfast from that point forward in an effort to control my food intake.
My oldest is 23 years old, so I've been at this a while.
I hit my highest weight (210 pounds) skipping breakfast, and hit my lowest weight skipping breakfast. How many calories I consumed is what ultimately mattered in the end, not the time frame during which I ate them.19 -
Has anyone ever read "The Obesity Code" (Jason Fung MD). He has an interesting take on a lot of what everyone is discussing here and much research to back up his findings. He is a kidney specialist by trade and works with diabetic patients. His protocol of IF (intermittent fasting) with these patients has enabled many of them to completely come off their diabetic medications. For those who don't like to read books, he also has a lot of YouTube videos if anyone is interested in understanding more about how fasting "heals the body". Ancient cultures have used fasting to heal the body since recorded history. Food for thought....what is the first thing that happens when someone (or even your dog or cat) gets sick? They stop eating. This is natures way of trying to heal the body. Digestion is one of they most difficult jobs the body performs. Don't forget too, that many religious cultures today fast on a regular basis for various reasons. This is not a new concept. Fasting isn't the same as starving. Starving is uncontrolled (food is unavailable). Fasting is controlled and done for many reasons.
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So maybe some of the posters should realize that they are not the very first humans here to post about IF.
Most people on these boards are very, very familiar with IF. Many practice it. Most of us have researched it.
Many of us love it. (me included).
We've all read Fung, et al.....Be aware that some parts of his research has been debunked.
IF personally helps me control my appetite. It also lets me eat two large meals, which I prefer.
Please be prepared to defend yourself if you make unfounded claims. The many peeps who are questioning you are trying to make sure other readers are aware that your claims may be total bull, and should take that into account.13 -
Has anyone ever read "The Obesity Code" (Jason Fung MD). He has an interesting take on a lot of what everyone is discussing here and much research to back up his findings. He is a kidney specialist by trade and works with diabetic patients. His protocol of IF (intermittent fasting) with these patients has enabled many of them to completely come off their diabetic medications. For those who don't like to read books, he also has a lot of YouTube videos if anyone is interested in understanding more about how fasting "heals the body". Ancient cultures have used fasting to heal the body since recorded history. Food for thought....what is the first thing that happens when someone (or even your dog or cat) gets sick? They stop eating. This is natures way of trying to heal the body. Digestion is one of they most difficult jobs the body performs. Don't forget too, that many religious cultures today fast on a regular basis for various reasons. This is not a new concept. Fasting isn't the same as starving. Starving is uncontrolled (food is unavailable). Fasting is controlled and done for many reasons.
LOL, no. Do you know what the next thing to happen to your cat is if you don't get them eating again in very short order? They get hepatic lipidosis, and saving them from that is damn hard and damn expensive.
The rest of your post is also nonsense.13 -
Has anyone ever read "The Obesity Code" (Jason Fung MD). He has an interesting take on a lot of what everyone is discussing here and much research to back up his findings. He is a kidney specialist by trade and works with diabetic patients. His protocol of IF (intermittent fasting) with these patients has enabled many of them to completely come off their diabetic medications. For those who don't like to read books, he also has a lot of YouTube videos if anyone is interested in understanding more about how fasting "heals the body". Ancient cultures have used fasting to heal the body since recorded history. Food for thought....what is the first thing that happens when someone (or even your dog or cat) gets sick? They stop eating. This is natures way of trying to heal the body. Digestion is one of they most difficult jobs the body performs. Don't forget too, that many religious cultures today fast on a regular basis for various reasons. This is not a new concept. Fasting isn't the same as starving. Starving is uncontrolled (food is unavailable). Fasting is controlled and done for many reasons.
Hospitals are wasting so much money on medicine and staff, when all we had to do was starve people.
The answer was right in front of us all along!
#banhospitalcafeterias10 -
Slowfaster wrote: »I wonder why some opinions require cited sources while other opinions, like the often repeated one that only calories count in weight loss, never require cited sources.
Outlandish claims need to be backed up. CICO and weight loss is not a claim, it is common sense that has already been proven by science...7 -
Just last night I saw a "study" on the news about how people that eat breakfast lost more weight than people that don't. I has to be right. It was on TV.
Also, the book I'm reading (You! On a Diet) was co-written by Dr. Oz. He said that breakfast is very important and if you don't eat it your body will go into starvation mode. He pointed to some "study" that showed metabolism decreases by as much as 40% if you go longer than 12 hours without eating. I mean if you can't trust Dr. Oz, who can you trust? Kidding.
Anyway, as soon as someone comes out with the absolute "truth" about the best way to lose weight, let me know. Right now, I'm just sticking with CICO until someone (not selling a book) comes out with a proven better way.
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