Intermittent Fasting

Lillymoo01 wrote: »

I am surprised that I managed to not only lose 40 kgs but keep it off for well over a year by simply reducing calories and increasing exercise to create a deficit and then eat the same amount I was burning to maintain that loss. I haven't gone low carb, I haven't done IF, in fact, I haven't done any eating plan which has a name. I am surprised when reading success stories that others have done exactly the same as me with pretty much the same results.

hobbitses333 wrote: »

140 days of 16.8 IF most days, 51 lbs down.
Decreased appetite, decreased cravings, decreased inflammation markers. No science, just actual experience.
Basically I always hated breakfast and loved a huge supper so it kinda went with my natural rythym. It was a "lightbulb" moment when I learned of the concept..
Its not for everyone but its working unlike anything else to help me control calorie intake.

modusoperandi1412 wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

I guess I should point out that Calorie Reduction is, in fact, a part of a successful IF regimen. What I’m arguing, is that the idea of Calorie Reduction As Primary... is exactly what its acronym spells out.
Simply reducing calories in (and/or increasing calories out) only works in the short term. We don’t have a weight loss problem in this country, we have a weight re-gain problem. If you don’t address the hormonal aspect of obesity, you won’t be able to fix the problem long-term.

If simply managing calories so that you eat less than you burn only works short term, what produces the energy that causes weight gain long term?

And what is the mechanism by which hormones in and of themselves lead to obesity?

Without getting too complicated:
Eating (which for this conversation will be shorthand for “putting something in your mouth that isn’t water/black coffee/tea”) raises insulin up from your personal baseline.
When insulin is up, its job is to store energy. First it refills your glucose (short term storage), and whatever is leftover goes to your fat cells (long term storage). If your fat cells are all too full, new fat cells will be made for extra storage room.
While insulin is raised above your personal baseline, your body can’t effectively access your storage. When insulin is baselined, your body ‘can’ effectively access your storage.
The amount of storage you have built up will largely determine what your personal baseline of insulin is. More storage, higher baseline. Your insulin baseline can also be thought of as the body’s control mechanism for its weight set point, which it will defend vigorously.
So, “eating” often keeps insulin above its baseline. It tells your body to store the incoming energy, without giving your body a chance to access the energy it has already stored. Any energy out, by design of your non-baselined insulin, will largely be provided by the energy you just recently “ate”, as opposed to the energy you’ve been storing.
You tell your body to store energy every time you eat, if you eat often throughout the day that means you’re storing and not pulling from your storage, and over time you need more and more room to store your energy.

You failed to describe how insulin acted independent of energy balance.

Furthermore,


https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/

Cute meme.
Calories in versus calories out (or “energy balance”) is based entirely on a one compartment theory. That all the calories we eat go into one compartment, and that when we expend energy, we pull it out of that same compartment. The only problem with that theory, is that it’s wrong.
Calories go in and get sent to different places, one of which is easy to get energy back out of, and one of them isn’t (unless your insulin is at baseline).
No one is “creating or destroying matter”, all the calories are accounted for. You just can’t access a portion of them for fuel if your insulin isn’t baselined.
And that, the act of storing energy as fat combined with not allowing access to said stored energy when above baseline, is how insulin affects obesity independently from energy balance.

But that's just wrong.
Let's just... make an easy example.
Say you're John Everyman who is just a normal guy, sedentary job, etc. whose body needs 2000 calories to function.
Do you get me so far?
John's body needs 2000 calories to function, if it doesn't get 2000 calories, what happens? He doesn't just drop dead like a car that runs out of gas. It takes them from the stores.
Okay?
Now, there's glycogen stores and fat stores in the body, as well as muscle. Where your idea that "fat can only be accessed at baseline insulin" is just wrong comes now.
https://exrx.net/Nutrition/Substrates Where your body takes energy from is directly tied to your current activity, whether your body needs energy fast or not so fast. At rest, 60% of your energy needs are met by fat.
Directly after eating, while you're digesting, part of the nutrients will immediately be used to fuel your body, the rest will be stored. If you IF, since you eat everything over a shorter time frame, you will store more, because it doesn't magically make your body need more all of a sudden. The end result is the same. All the food you ate that your body didn't immediately need got stored and then afterwards will slowly get used again. If you ate less calories than you needed then more fat will be used up than you stored and vice versa.

Oh, and glycogen is readily replenished, but that means the carbs aren't available for use, which means you use fat to make up for the calories you stored in your glycogen, so...

Also, I think you didn't think far enough to realize that if you IF and eat all your calories over a smaller time frame, your insulin spike is going to be larger and longer as more nutrients at once have to be transported. Insulin is driven by need, less to transport, less insulin. More to transport, more insulin.
So, even if you falsely believe that insulin would have to be at baseline to lose fat (it doesn't because "inhibit" is not the same as "completely stop", that would be pretty dangerous if you were eating 10 calories in sugar, your insulin goes up and suddenly you only have 10 calories available for your whole body), the time your insulin is elevated when eating the exact same foods spaced out or in a short time is going to be similar. Multiple short, small elevations vs. fewer but higher and longer ones.

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

modusoperandi1412 wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

Monk_E_Boy wrote: »

I guess I should point out that Calorie Reduction is, in fact, a part of a successful IF regimen. What I’m arguing, is that the idea of Calorie Reduction As Primary... is exactly what its acronym spells out.
Simply reducing calories in (and/or increasing calories out) only works in the short term. We don’t have a weight loss problem in this country, we have a weight re-gain problem. If you don’t address the hormonal aspect of obesity, you won’t be able to fix the problem long-term.

If simply managing calories so that you eat less than you burn only works short term, what produces the energy that causes weight gain long term?

And what is the mechanism by which hormones in and of themselves lead to obesity?

Without getting too complicated:
Eating (which for this conversation will be shorthand for “putting something in your mouth that isn’t water/black coffee/tea”) raises insulin up from your personal baseline.
When insulin is up, its job is to store energy. First it refills your glucose (short term storage), and whatever is leftover goes to your fat cells (long term storage). If your fat cells are all too full, new fat cells will be made for extra storage room.
While insulin is raised above your personal baseline, your body can’t effectively access your storage. When insulin is baselined, your body ‘can’ effectively access your storage.
The amount of storage you have built up will largely determine what your personal baseline of insulin is. More storage, higher baseline. Your insulin baseline can also be thought of as the body’s control mechanism for its weight set point, which it will defend vigorously.
So, “eating” often keeps insulin above its baseline. It tells your body to store the incoming energy, without giving your body a chance to access the energy it has already stored. Any energy out, by design of your non-baselined insulin, will largely be provided by the energy you just recently “ate”, as opposed to the energy you’ve been storing.
You tell your body to store energy every time you eat, if you eat often throughout the day that means you’re storing and not pulling from your storage, and over time you need more and more room to store your energy.

You failed to describe how insulin acted independent of energy balance.

Furthermore,


https://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/

Cute meme.
Calories in versus calories out (or “energy balance”) is based entirely on a one compartment theory. That all the calories we eat go into one compartment, and that when we expend energy, we pull it out of that same compartment. The only problem with that theory, is that it’s wrong.
Calories go in and get sent to different places, one of which is easy to get energy back out of, and one of them isn’t (unless your insulin is at baseline).
No one is “creating or destroying matter”, all the calories are accounted for. You just can’t access a portion of them for fuel if your insulin isn’t baselined.
And that, the act of storing energy as fat combined with not allowing access to said stored energy when above baseline, is how insulin affects obesity independently from energy balance.

But that's just wrong.
Let's just... make an easy example.
Say you're John Everyman who is just a normal guy, sedentary job, etc. whose body needs 2000 calories to function.
Do you get me so far?
John's body needs 2000 calories to function, if it doesn't get 2000 calories, what happens? He doesn't just drop dead like a car that runs out of gas. It takes them from the stores.
Okay?
Now, there's glycogen stores and fat stores in the body, as well as muscle. Where your idea that "fat can only be accessed at baseline insulin" is just wrong comes now.
https://exrx.net/Nutrition/Substrates Where your body takes energy from is directly tied to your current activity, whether your body needs energy fast or not so fast. At rest, 60% of your energy needs are met by fat.
Directly after eating, while you're digesting, part of the nutrients will immediately be used to fuel your body, the rest will be stored. If you IF, since you eat everything over a shorter time frame, you will store more, because it doesn't magically make your body need more all of a sudden. The end result is the same. All the food you ate that your body didn't immediately need got stored and then afterwards will slowly get used again. If you ate less calories than you needed then more fat will be used up than you stored and vice versa.

Oh, and glycogen is readily replenished, but that means the carbs aren't available for use, which means you use fat to make up for the calories you stored in your glycogen, so...

Also, I think you didn't think far enough to realize that if you IF and eat all your calories over a smaller time frame, your insulin spike is going to be larger and longer as more nutrients at once have to be transported. Insulin is driven by need, less to transport, less insulin. More to transport, more insulin.
So, even if you falsely believe that insulin would have to be at baseline to lose fat (it doesn't because "inhibit" is not the same as "completely stop", that would be pretty dangerous if you were eating 10 calories in sugar, your insulin goes up and suddenly you only have 10 calories available for your whole body), the time your insulin is elevated when eating the exact same foods spaced out or in a short time is going to be similar. Multiple short, small elevations vs. fewer but higher and longer ones.

Nice! Very well explained!
Who knows, maybe the dozen other times I’ve restricted calories for extended periods of time and lost very little were just unlucky, and this time with IF is just a happy accident? 13th time’s the charm!
Regardless, the weight is coming off and my energy levels are steady, so I guess I’ll just keep going!
Best of luck in your journey!!