Post antibiotics gut tips? & probiotic recommendation?
katijjaa
Posts: 34 Member
Hey guys, worried as I'm in the middle of 10 days course of 3 kinds of antibiotics. Haven't had any in 3 years and sure my gut will be cleared of any bio after this. Any tips that you recommend for diet and supplements etc will be appreciated.
3
Replies
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Recent research casts doubt on the effectiveness of taking probiotics post-antibiotics. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180906141640.htm5
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I usually try to eat low to no sugar yogurt and take a daily probiotic (pb8 is my usual brand) while on antibiotics. If you are prone to yeast infections, you can ask your doctor for a rx pill.5
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Florastor (saccharomyces boulardii) or Culturelle (Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG) are generally recommended for post antibiotic use. Really NOT necessary, but conversely there is virtually no harm in taking; ask your PCP's opinion first. Probiotics must be spaced 2+ hours from antibiotics if used during an antibiotic course (or more easily, just do probiotics after antibiotic course).
Very grey subject matter (in terms of evidence based recommendation), personally, I would just stick to eating yogurt (common in my diet); just economically not worth it otherwise (redundant).2 -
Kefir & yogurt - actual food in conjunction with whole grains, fruit, veggies -after you finish your meds. You'll get back to normal.2
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I recommend bio-kult advanced probiotics. They are expensive but really strong. They helped me get over issues I had for years dealing with the aftermath of strong antibiotics. Fermented Foods like kefir, yogurt, sauerkraut, and kimchi are good but not as good as actual probiotics.1
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I'm very pro probiotic if taking antibiotics. I ended up with c diff after taking one course so the next time I had to be on antibiotics, I took 3 different kinds. Probably overkill but getting rid of the c diff sucked so I wasn't going to take any chances.
The 3 probiotics I took were Culturelle (thank God for chewable), Digestive Advantage, and the Jarrow version of saccharomyces boulardii.1 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Very grey subject matter (in terms of evidence based recommendation), personally, I would just stick to eating yogurt (common in my diet); just economically not worth it otherwise (redundant).
Recent research points to taking probiotics post antibiotics as actually inhibiting your own gut microbiome from coming back. So I'm not sure what the benefit is of adding probiotic supplements really is, other than to the bottom line of the companies selling them Ourderstanding of the gut microbiome is really in its infancy, but evidence suggests it plays a huge factor in our overall health. I think a healthy skepticism is warranted, and it may be best to just eat a bit more of the foods you already eat that add to your gut microbes.
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I’d do your best to rebuild with food. Kefir, sauerkraut (not together), yogurt, kambucha, etc. lots of veg, leafy greens, fruit, whole grains, etc.3
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I agree that it's best to do it with food. Unfortunately for me, I don't like fermented veggies, but they are very good sources. I ate a lot of yogurt the last time I had to take antibiotics.0
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No post antibiotics, but very happy with Jarrow Formulas Saccharomyces Boulardii0
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kamaclaire wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Very grey subject matter (in terms of evidence based recommendation), personally, I would just stick to eating yogurt (common in my diet); just economically not worth it otherwise (redundant).
Recent research points to taking probiotics post antibiotics as actually inhibiting your own gut microbiome from coming back. So I'm not sure what the benefit is of adding probiotic supplements really is, other than to the bottom line of the companies selling them Ourderstanding of the gut microbiome is really in its infancy, but evidence suggests it plays a huge factor in our overall health. I think a healthy skepticism is warranted, and it may be best to just eat a bit more of the foods you already eat that add to your gut microbes.
Poor study you posted (clickbait); underpowered (N=25), and no uniformity of product use
This is getting sad, resorting to graphical abstracts because in general people are too lazy to read
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Thank you everyone for helping. It seems that articles discouraging the use of antibiotics all goes back to one Israeli study and their sample is very small. It still kinda makes sense that using probiotic may hinder the body's ability to produce on its own. I think I will stick to eating healthy and fermented food with bone broth and so on for at least 3 weeks before taking probiotic and florastor. What do you guys think?
Also my friend's doctor suggested that she eats expired yogurt for a month and that really fixed her gut problems so I was thinking of doing the same. Only as I live in Mexico, I can't find any yogurt or kefir that does not have sugar.0 -
I'm in a similar situation right now. My doctor did suggest taking probiotics while on the antibiotics. Of course keep them several hours apart.
Since I have to be dairy-free yogurt and kefir are out. And I don't like kimchi or sauerkraut. I don't seem to have a lot of options unless you guys come up with something for me.0 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »kamaclaire wrote: »Keto_Vampire wrote: »Poor study you posted (clickbait); underpowered (N=25), and no uniformity of product use
This is getting sad, resorting to graphical abstracts because in general people are too lazy to read
And this is an exceedingly rude post.
In the future it may be worth remembering that the best course of action is to look for research that provides evidence for solid reasons to do something, as well as research that points to the opposite. What we do know is that we don't really understand the gut microbiome all that well, so considering what drives our economy, a healthy dose of skepticism of what is being marketed to us by "health" companies is wise.0 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Poor study you posted (clickbait); underpowered (N=25), and no uniformity of product use
This is getting sad, resorting to graphical abstracts because in general people are too lazy to read
And that was an exceedingly rude post.
In the future it may be worth remembering that the best course of action is to look for research that provides evidence for solid reasons to do something, as well as research that points to the opposite. What we do know is that we don't really understand the gut microbiome all that well, so considering what drives our economy, a healthy dose of skepticism of what is being marketed to us by "health" companies is wise.
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Yep, I think we can both agree probiotics are not necessary though0
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kefir (home made is better than shop bought)
dark chocolate
natural yoghurt
cloudy cider
and red wine
sorted0 -
MoveitlikeManda wrote: »kefir (home made is better than shop bought)
dark chocolate
natural yoghurt
cloudy cider
and red wine
sorted
+1 on the home made kefir. It not only tastes better, it's way cheaper and extremely easy to do.0 -
MoveitlikeManda wrote: »kefir (home made is better than shop bought)
dark chocolate
natural yoghurt
cloudy cider
and red wine
sorted
+1 on the home made kefir. It not only tastes better, it's way cheaper and extremely easy to do.
Recipe please
Cheers, h.0 -
I was on antibiotics for most of 2017 due to 4 surgeries and infected hardware from a fracture+fracture blister on my lower leg/ankle.
I took Vitamin Bounty Pro-50 and ate plenty of things like saurkraut, yogurts, etc, but the probiotic was my main tool. I also tried to eat generally healthy and keep some "replenishment" that way.
Seems to have worked pretty well as I never noticed any dramatic changes in what I could eat or how I did or didn't react to anything. No issues with side infections either (such as a yeast infection).0 -
I went on antibiotics and the pharmacy label on the bottle told me to go on probiotics. I didn't and got diarrhea the very first day. Second day I ate yogurt galore and it had zero effect and i still had diarrhea. Day 3 I got on Renew Life brand Women's Care Ultimate Flora Probiotic (at Walmart) and had no diarrhea for the rest of the 10 days on antibiotics. So yeah they work.2
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middlehaitch wrote: »MoveitlikeManda wrote: »kefir (home made is better than shop bought)
dark chocolate
natural yoghurt
cloudy cider
and red wine
sorted
+1 on the home made kefir. It not only tastes better, it's way cheaper and extremely easy to do.
Recipe please
Cheers, h.
Equipment needed: milk (not ultra-filtered; not lactose-free)with whatever fat content you prefer
jar - I use a two liter mason jar and make a liter at a time. You can make less or more
paper coffee filter, napkin or paper towel to secure with a rubber band, or a mason jar
ring
fine-ish mesh strainer which can be metal or plastic - you can't keep kefir in contact with
metal for long but for straining purposes metal is fine
kefir grains - I use about a tablespoon for a liter to make a batch in 24 hours
Process: Put the grains and the milk in your jar, cover the jar with paper of some sort, and set it on the counter or in a cupboard for about 24 hours. Strain it into a plastic or glass container and refrigerate. Take your strained kefir grains and plop them back into the jar with more milk. Or if you want to slow the process down you can refrigerate the kefir in 250ml of milk or so for up to a week and then strain and plop them in the jar. That 250 ml is usually fully kefir'ed and I use it happily. Handy website here: https://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/category/milk-kefir/
Get some kefir starter grains (either from a friend or buy them - amazon.uk has them here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Live-Kefir-Grains-Highest-Quality/dp/B06XYMQ5X5/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1542670219&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=kefir+grains&psc=1
Reconstituting dried kefir grains simply involves adding them to a cup of milk and changing the milk daily for a couple of days until they are fluffy and white.
You can add fruit or whatever you want if you prefer. It seems best to store it in the fridge plain and add any additional ingredients as you go.1 -
Thank you everyone for helping. It seems that articles discouraging the use of antibiotics all goes back to one Israeli study and their sample is very small. It still kinda makes sense that using probiotic may hinder the body's ability to produce on its own. I think I will stick to eating healthy and fermented food with bone broth and so on for at least 3 weeks before taking probiotic and florastor. What do you guys think?
Also my friend's doctor suggested that she eats expired yogurt for a month and that really fixed her gut problems so I was thinking of doing the same. Only as I live in Mexico, I can't find any yogurt or kefir that does not have sugar.
Sometimes I can only find Plain Yogurt in the larger containers. Lately I started making my own, and much prefer it.
Leftovers? https://www.marthastewart.com/1072730/ten-delicious-ideas-plain-yogurt?slide=34658640 -
kamaclaire wrote: »Recent research casts doubt on the effectiveness of taking probiotics post-antibiotics. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180906141640.htm
That's nice, but it was just released, so no peer review yet - don't assume it's factual science at this point please.
Also, the research talked about "many people's digestive tracts prevent standard probiotics from successfully colonizing" and "In the first study, 25 human volunteers underwent upper endoscopies and colonoscopies to sample their baseline microbiome in regions of the gut" - which doesn't directly relate to your summary about taking post-antibiotics.
A lot of people don't understand statistical analysis of research (p-hacking), peer review importance of any research to validate findings, or will take one study in a specific experiment metrics and then apply them generally to the field as a whole. They mean well, but ignorance and assumptions of understanding can lead to dangerous misinformation.0 -
That's nice, but it was just released, so no peer review yet - don't assume it's factual science at this point please.
I included qualifiers twice. There is no reasonable interpretation of my statements that leads to them being a claim of indisputable fact.
But while we are talking about "factual" science, there is still way too much we know that we don't know about the gut microbiome to not be skeptical about health claims of companies in the business of selling probiotics, which are not tailored to an individual's actual gut microbiome.
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middlehaitch wrote: »MoveitlikeManda wrote: »kefir (home made is better than shop bought)
dark chocolate
natural yoghurt
cloudy cider
and red wine
sorted
+1 on the home made kefir. It not only tastes better, it's way cheaper and extremely easy to do.
Recipe please
Cheers, h.
https://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/milk-kefir/how-to-find-milk-kefir-grains/
Kefir grains are what you need.1 -
you can get kefir grain either by buying them OR if you check on facebook join a fermenting group and people will send you them for free because they grow like wild fire so everyone usually has plenty spare.
I started making it for my Dalmatian after he was o antibiotics for an ear infection and I didnt want to give him the robiotic the vets gave me as wasnt sure on purine content.
anyway, now between me, my youngest son, my gran and my 2 dogs we get through 4lts a week.
it has a taste that you either love or hate but when added to smoothies or such like blends in leaving no taste,.
my gran takes it every day by the spoon full (6 tables ) when she takes her morning tablets0 -
MoveitlikeManda wrote: »you can get kefir grain either by buying them OR if you check on facebook join a fermenting group and people will send you them for free because they grow like wild fire so everyone usually has plenty spare.
I started making it for my Dalmatian after he was o antibiotics for an ear infection and I didnt want to give him the robiotic the vets gave me as wasnt sure on purine content.
anyway, now between me, my youngest son, my gran and my 2 dogs we get through 4lts a week.
it has a taste that you either love or hate but when added to smoothies or such like blends in leaving no taste,.
my gran takes it every day by the spoon full (6 tables ) when she takes her morning tablets
If they are to be sent across international borders, just check to make sure it's actually allowed. Some countries have restrictions on what can and what cannot be sent across the border (living organisms and food stuffs are sometimes problematic)0 -
ladyreva78 wrote: »MoveitlikeManda wrote: »you can get kefir grain either by buying them OR if you check on facebook join a fermenting group and people will send you them for free because they grow like wild fire so everyone usually has plenty spare.
I started making it for my Dalmatian after he was o antibiotics for an ear infection and I didnt want to give him the robiotic the vets gave me as wasnt sure on purine content.
anyway, now between me, my youngest son, my gran and my 2 dogs we get through 4lts a week.
it has a taste that you either love or hate but when added to smoothies or such like blends in leaving no taste,.
my gran takes it every day by the spoon full (6 tables ) when she takes her morning tablets
If they are to be sent across international borders, just check to make sure it's actually allowed. Some countries have restrictions on what can and what cannot be sent across the border (living organisms and food stuffs are sometimes problematic)
shouldnt need to be, should be easy to find some in what ever country your in0 -
I see where you said casts doubt once, so where's your second qualifier, b/c most people would take that link as you providing scientific evidence probiotics are useless post anti-biotics, which you misrepresented the paper as directly addressing. So yes, there is a reasonable interpretation that it is fact. Just because you come back after the fact and qualify it as not being indisputable, doens't negate the impression it initially conveyed. Otherwise, you have have quantified it in the initial comment. Also, I never made any claim about "indisputable fact", just stated no way to know if the experiment was properly conducted.Recent research casts doubt on the effectiveness of taking probiotics post-antibiotics.
I included qualifiers twice. There is no reasonable interpretation of my statements that leads to them being a claim of indisputable fact.
I just stated the until peer review has been done, even the researches can't be 100% their data and conclusions are accurate. Maybe their is something in their study the overlooked or failed to consider.That's nice, but it was just released, so no peer review yet - don't assume it's factual science at this point please.But while we are talking about "factual" science, there is still way too much we know that we don't know about the gut microbiome to not be skeptical about health claims of companies in the business of selling probiotics, which are not tailored to an individual's actual gut microbiome.
Sure...in fact I think I pointed out the same fact from the paper you mentioned"many people's digestive tracts prevent standard probiotics from successfully colonizing"
Seems like you are being defensive b/c I highlighted people are ignorant about how to critically evaluate scientific research and interpretation of the data. Regardless of any of that,you took a study that had nothing to do with post antibiotics and passed it off as "possible" evidence of the ineffectiveness of probiotics. It wasn't intentional, but you inadvertently compared apples to oranges, and instead of owning up to that, you argue off on some "absolute" tangent. That and the comment below is what you seem to be really getting defensive about, instead of just admitting you weren't as clear and concise in your communications as you could have been.A lot of people don't understand statistical analysis of research (p-hacking), peer review importance of any research to validate findings, or will take one study in a specific experiment metrics and then apply them generally to the field as a whole. They mean well, but ignorance and assumptions of understanding can lead to dangerous misinformation.0
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