‘‘Tis the season for rude comments
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One thing I had to learn about asking my parents for apologies... the person you are asking for an apology is the same as the person who hurt you. If it's something that person has been doing for as long as you've known them, long enough for it to become a thing that drives you berserk, it's not going to change just because you asked for an apology, and you are most likely going away disappointed. Sometimes you just have to accept that your parents are a certain way and that it may not be right or fair but it isn't going to change.lynn_glenmont wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »But you can't change another person. You can only change how you respond, and you can try asking them to change themselves. Sometimes that will change the dynamics of the relationship. Sometimes it won't. You can live with it as it is, you can do what you can to change your responses, or you can limit or eliminate contact. Those are your choices.
I guess what I was trying to do was take another, healthier approach. Instead of dying a little inside but saying nothing to her about it, and then having the feeling come out later in a snide comment in an unrelated situation, I chose to tell her that I know I’m fat but that her comments hurt me and I’m doing the best I can. Through therapy I have learned that my family of origin is TERRIBLE at communication. I decided I want better for my kids.
I think expressing how it made you feel is a good thing. The problem is that you want her to respond to what you say in a specific way, and that's just not a realistic expectation.
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »I didn’t ignore her apology though. I didn’t answer her immediately and she got angry with me. This happens every time I share my feelings with her, going back YEARS. She’s allowed to say whatever she wants, but I’m not allowed to have any feelings about it. I guess I have to develop a thicker skin where she’s concerned and just learn to take it.
You don't have to learn to take it. You need to tell her that your weight is no longer open for discussion with her. Period, end of story. I did this with my mother when I was about 25 (and almost 25 years ago!) and it has been very freeing. And sometimes I do talk about my weight with her now, and the discussions are much more productive than when I was younger.5 -
witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »But you can't change another person. You can only change how you respond, and you can try asking them to change themselves. Sometimes that will change the dynamics of the relationship. Sometimes it won't. You can live with it as it is, you can do what you can to change your responses, or you can limit or eliminate contact. Those are your choices.
I guess what I was trying to do was take another, healthier approach. Instead of dying a little inside but saying nothing to her about it, and then having the feeling come out later in a snide comment in an unrelated situation, I chose to tell her that I know I’m fat but that her comments hurt me and I’m doing the best I can. Through therapy I have learned that my family of origin is TERRIBLE at communication. I decided I want better for my kids.
I think expressing how it made you feel is a good thing. The problem is that you want her to respond to what you say in a specific way, and that's just not a realistic expectation.
I didn’t say that. 🤷♀️ I was simply venting about the initial text this morning and how it hurt me. I know that I can’t control how she responds. And I never blamed my weight on her leukemia either. I was fat long before she was diagnosed.
Maybe I'm not expressing myself well. When you texted that her original expression of concern about your weight was hurtful, and she apologized, and then got angry when you didn't respond, that wasn't the response you were hoping for, right? And so on top of feeling bad about the original remark, you're now feeling bad about her defensive remarks accusing you of blaming her and thinking that's she a horrible mother.Sigh. This is pretty much how all of our conversations go.
That's you wanting a different response from her than the one that your history with suggests you're going to get. If she says A, you say B, and then she says C is the dynamic of your relationship, you can't change A. You can try changing B and see if C changes. Things you can change B to include a suggestion elsewhere in this thread of just texting, "My weight isn't open for discussion." I would suggest adding something to change the subject, like "Wasn't it great seeing everybody yesterday?" or "I could believe how tall Niece/Nephew has gotten!" but that's your choice. Changing B could be just not responding to A at all, although I think it's worth saying the topic is off-limits first, and repeating that message at least several times, maybe with a longer lag in the response each time, because it seems cruel to leave someone wondering if you're dead or alive or why you're cutting them off, just because they're expressing concern about an issue that is, in fact, a thing to be concerned about.
And if you were fat long before she was diagnosed, how was the statement in your OP about using food and alcohol to cope with your stress over her illness even relevant? What were you trying to tell us with that statement? Again, you probably didn't mean it this way, and again, another good example of things we say (like "you've gained weight and I'm concerned") can be misinterpreted, but to me it sounds like, "OK, I'm taking in too many food and alcohol calories but I'm only doing it because I'm worried about her, so how dare she mention it to me!"
And, a little bit tangential here, but when some major bad thing happens to someone, comfort and support is supposed to flow inward toward those most immediately affected. Family and friends support the person who is actually suffering the bad thing, such as major illness; they don't ask that person to support them. If someone's mom is sick, they get support from friends and more distant family members who aren't as close to their mom, while offering support to the actual sick person, and, if they have the resources (emotional energy, time, etc.) to spare, offering support to people who are closer (mom's spouse?) and similarly close (mom's other children or grandchildren) to the sick person.12 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »But you can't change another person. You can only change how you respond, and you can try asking them to change themselves. Sometimes that will change the dynamics of the relationship. Sometimes it won't. You can live with it as it is, you can do what you can to change your responses, or you can limit or eliminate contact. Those are your choices.
I guess what I was trying to do was take another, healthier approach. Instead of dying a little inside but saying nothing to her about it, and then having the feeling come out later in a snide comment in an unrelated situation, I chose to tell her that I know I’m fat but that her comments hurt me and I’m doing the best I can. Through therapy I have learned that my family of origin is TERRIBLE at communication. I decided I want better for my kids.
I think expressing how it made you feel is a good thing. The problem is that you want her to respond to what you say in a specific way, and that's just not a realistic expectation.
I didn’t say that. 🤷♀️ I was simply venting about the initial text this morning and how it hurt me. I know that I can’t control how she responds. And I never blamed my weight on her leukemia either. I was fat long before she was diagnosed.
Maybe I'm not expressing myself well. When you texted that her original expression of concern about your weight was hurtful, and she apologized, and then got angry when you didn't respond, that wasn't the response you were hoping for, right?
No, that’s not what happened. She responded to me while I was cleaning. I didn’t see it right away so I didn’t respond right away. And when I did see the apology, she had already followed up with the stuff about her being a terrible mother before I had a chance to see or respond to the apology.And if you were fat long before she was diagnosed, how was the statement in your OP about using food and alcohol to cope with your stress over her illness even relevant? What were you trying to tell us with that statement? Again, you probably didn't mean it this way, and again, another good example of things we say (like "you've gained weight and I'm concerned") can be misinterpreted, but to me it sounds like, "OK, I'm taking in too many food and alcohol calories but I'm only doing it because I'm worried about her, so how dare she mention it to me!"
Because it’s been a pattern with me. I have some unhealthy coping mechanisms I’m working to change. I didn’t say anything about that to her either, just added it here for context. I’ve actually gained only about 5 lbs since she got sick, but more like 20 over the last year.
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I had a grandmother that was very mean and miserable to other family members, including myself. Her comments hurt deeply growing up. One day while expressing these feelings to a friend, she said something that made it easier to understand my grandmother's misery. She said that, "hurting people, hurt people." My grandmother, I found out years later, did come from a life with an abusive father. She had hurt own past that influenced her life. It explained alot about her comments to others, so maybe your mother has her own baggage that you've never known about. Not saying for sure, but it's a thought that may explain her hurtful words. We never walk in someone else's shoes. I wish you peace and success in your own journeys.5
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who would do that to someone? sounds abusive to me. My parents would say things like that to me and I think they are the main reason I gained weight! What I mean is I emotionally eat and geez people should watch what and when and how they say stuff.4
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Don't know if this will help, but...
I have a difficult relationship with my father. Among other things, he was a nasty drunk when I was growing up and would be critical of my mother about her weight (which she was always struggling with, but never hugely overweight). When I was a teen (and not fat at all) he would tell me I was fat when in a fight (I was into confronting him for a while and would pretend not to be bothered, but this was something I very much internalized even though I pretended I did not care, since it was important to me that he not know he hurt me). There's more and worse, but this is the relevant bit.
Anyway, he stopped drinking when I was in my mid 20s, and gradually became a better person, although he continued to be pretty insecure and to lash out if he perceived someone else attacking him. For some reason his feelings are extra-easily hurt by me, and vice versa (I care too much about what he thinks even though I'd say I reject a lot of his views and values).
When I was fat later in life (and I was very fat), I believed that he was embarrassed by that (when I'd lost weight and been in really good shape before he made comments that made me think me being in shape was really important to him, for superficial reasons). Around this time my mom started having health problems (related to a genetic health condition), which followed on a period of time when she'd been reasonably inactive due to an injury and gotten out of shape again (probably on the edge of obese, but not more so).
I visited my parents (largely because of my mom's health worsening) for the first time after I'd gotten pretty heavy and he started hinting about wanting to talk to me about "my health" (which I was having no problems with) and said more direct things to my sister about me (she said to leave it). Ultimately, when I was planning to go out there the next time I had a ridiculous amount of stress and didn't want to go (although obviously I had to, because of my mom), because I knew he was going to look down on me and see me as a failure because I was fat, and also because I didn't think I could take the conversation with him telling me I was fat (as if I didn't know).
I was freaking out to such an extent that I considered writing him a long email explaining that I knew I was fat and was working on it, but found it unhelpful to have him telling me what a failure he saw it, and then ended up just calling him and saying "look, I'm really out of shape, I know it's not great, I know you find it embarrassing, but I'm working on it and you talking to me about it will be counterproductive." He said basically thanks for trusting me with that, I am not embarrassed, I am just worried because I think your mom's weight affected her health/quality of life (which is also frustrating because according to the doctor no, and I think he was blaming her, but anyway).
Clearing the air helped a lot, I knew I was fat, and didn't expect people not to notice, and I kind of believed he was concerned or thought he was, and was not just trying to put me down/use it as leverage. Family experience being what it was, I wasn't totally sure, but we were able to get along, and I was able to not have that added stress on everything else surrounding the situation with my mom (who died one year ago).
So it's possible your mom really is just concerned, and in any case don't get drawn into the drama and try to focus on the important things. You told her how you felt, you can tell her you didn't immediately see the texts and appreciate the response, and the subject should be over. Family patterns are really hard, but a lot of it is not worth it, especially if she's sick.
What rheddmobile said about not expecting people to change is pretty much right on. If they do, great, but I think you can't expect it.8 -
Don't know if this will help, but...
I have a difficult relationship with my father. Among other things, he was a nasty drunk when I was growing up and would be critical of my mother about her weight (which she was always struggling with, but never hugely overweight). When I was a teen (and not fat at all) he would tell me I was fat when in a fight (I was into confronting him for a while and would pretend not to be bothered, but this was something I very much internalized even though I pretended I did not care, since it was important to me that he not know he hurt me). There's more and worse, but this is the relevant bit.
Anyway, he stopped drinking when I was in my mid 20s, and gradually became a better person, although he continued to be pretty insecure and to lash out if he perceived someone else attacking him. For some reason his feelings are extra-easily hurt by me, and vice versa (I care too much about what he thinks even though I'd say I reject a lot of his views and values).
When I was fat later in life (and I was very fat), I believed that he was embarrassed by that (when I'd lost weight and been in really good shape before he made comments that made me think me being in shape was really important to him, for superficial reasons). Around this time my mom started having health problems (related to a genetic health condition), which followed on a period of time when she'd been reasonably inactive due to an injury and gotten out of shape again (probably on the edge of obese, but not more so).
I visited my parents (largely because of my mom's health worsening) for the first time after I'd gotten pretty heavy and he started hinting about wanting to talk to me about "my health" (which I was having no problems with) and said more direct things to my sister about me (she said to leave it). Ultimately, when I was planning to go out there the next time I had a ridiculous amount of stress and didn't want to go (although obviously I had to, because of my mom), because I knew he was going to look down on me and see me as a failure because I was fat, and also because I didn't think I could take the conversation with him telling me I was fat (as if I didn't know).
I was freaking out to such an extent that I considered writing him a long email explaining that I knew I was fat and was working on it, but found it unhelpful to have him telling me what a failure he saw it, and then ended up just calling him and saying "look, I'm really out of shape, I know it's not great, I know you find it embarrassing, but I'm working on it and you talking to me about it will be counterproductive." He said basically thanks for trusting me with that, I am not embarrassed, I am just worried because I think your mom's weight affected her health/quality of life (which is also frustrating because according to the doctor no, and I think he was blaming her, but anyway).
Clearing the air helped a lot, I knew I was fat, and didn't expect people not to notice, and I kind of believed he was concerned or thought he was, and was not just trying to put me down/use it as leverage. Family experience being what it was, I wasn't totally sure, but we were able to get along, and I was able to not have that added stress on everything else surrounding the situation with my mom (who died one year ago).
So it's possible your mom really is just concerned, and in any case don't get drawn into the drama and try to focus on the important things. You told her how you felt, you can tell her you didn't immediately see the texts and appreciate the response, and the subject should be over. Family patterns are really hard, but a lot of it is not worth it, especially if she's sick.
What rheddmobile said about not expecting people to change is pretty much right on. If they do, great, but I think you can't expect it.
Thank you for this. ❤️3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
And, a little bit tangential here, but when some major bad thing happens to someone, comfort and support is supposed to flow inward toward those most immediately affected. Family and friends support the person who is actually suffering the bad thing, such as major illness; they don't ask that person to support them.
There is no manual for any of this stuff. Cancer sucks. And it sucks when your “person” is in the vulnerable position when you’re used to them being there for you. But I am trying REALLY *kitten* hard not to burden her, which is why I’m such a hot mess (again, I am in NO WAY saying this is her fault). I drove to the hospital to sit with her all day multiple times a week. I told her over and over again that it’s ok for her to feel whatever she’s feeling. I bit my tongue when she made fun of my scarf and said my boots looked sloppy. I got her whatever she needed, regardless of how ridiculous the request. I came here to vent. I didn’t tell her she was wrong, but I DID tell her that my weight is not a topic of discussion.10 -
Perhaps also consider that there are likely things you do or say that your mother finds hurtful but you don’t realize and/or don’t intend. Not to say that any of your mother’s actions or statements here are your responsibility or that you deserved it in any way, just that sometimes some perspective can help—she made a mistake or else gifted you the opportunity to be a better person by treating it as a mistake, even if it wasn’t.3
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »Perhaps also consider that there are likely things you do or say that your mother finds hurtful but you don’t realize and/or don’t intend. Not to say that any of your mother’s actions or statements here are your responsibility or that you deserved it in any way, just that sometimes some perspective can help—she made a mistake or else gifted you the opportunity to be a better person by treating it as a mistake, even if it wasn’t.
I think you’re absolutely right, thanks! I do think it came from a place of genuine concern, but it was a blow after not holding back at all yesterday and feeling sluggish from the food on top of being overweight.
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
And, a little bit tangential here, but when some major bad thing happens to someone, comfort and support is supposed to flow inward toward those most immediately affected. Family and friends support the person who is actually suffering the bad thing, such as major illness; they don't ask that person to support them.
There is no manual for any of this stuff. Cancer sucks. And it sucks when your “person” is in the vulnerable position when you’re used to them being there for you. But I am trying REALLY *kitten* hard not to burden her, which is why I’m such a hot mess (again, I am in NO WAY saying this is her fault). I drove to the hospital to sit with her all day multiple times a week. I told her over and over again that it’s ok for her to feel whatever she’s feeling. I bit my tongue when she made fun of my scarf and said my boots looked sloppy. I got her whatever she needed, regardless of how ridiculous the request. I came here to vent. I didn’t tell her she was wrong, but I DID tell her that my weight is not a topic of discussion.
Parents being ill is hard. I thought my mom and I were going to straight up murder each other when we were splitting duties caretaking for my dad after his stroke. He wasn't a problem - he barely knew who we were half the time - but she was stressed and unreasonable, and it seems like the harder I tried to be sweet and understanding the more she threw at me - sometimes literally, she threw a roll of medical tape at me when she said we were out and I showed her we still had some. But we got through it. You will get through this too.4 -
witchaywoman81 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »
And, a little bit tangential here, but when some major bad thing happens to someone, comfort and support is supposed to flow inward toward those most immediately affected. Family and friends support the person who is actually suffering the bad thing, such as major illness; they don't ask that person to support them.
There is no manual for any of this stuff. Cancer sucks. And it sucks when your “person” is in the vulnerable position when you’re used to them being there for you. But I am trying REALLY *kitten* hard not to burden her, which is why I’m such a hot mess (again, I am in NO WAY saying this is her fault). I drove to the hospital to sit with her all day multiple times a week. I told her over and over again that it’s ok for her to feel whatever she’s feeling. I bit my tongue when she made fun of my scarf and said my boots looked sloppy. I got her whatever she needed, regardless of how ridiculous the request. I came here to vent. I didn’t tell her she was wrong, but I DID tell her that my weight is not a topic of discussion.
It's really hard, yeah. I get needing to vent. I was lucky that my sister and I had each other to vent to (although we didn't always agree on everything we were pretty supportive of each other and understood).1 -
I vent here on MFP, as there is always a thread to leave it.
With critical family members, if it's not your weight, they will fixate on something else . In my case, I am now the benchmark to beat. From my younger high school aged and college aged cousins. Yup! Most of them were born after I had left, meaning, I don't know them AT ALL, nor do I want to or need to. Learning to let it go, and not care is a tight rope, at 42 years old. Placing critics on a pedestal are vibrations I refuse to entertain in my life anymore.
My mother was severely verbally abusive during her critical stages with her health. " Hullo my girl, you look fatter!" or " Why is your hair tied up? Makes you look plain" " You should wear pink, black, always in,black. You look like a ghost!" ....From her hospital bed. Lol
It's regrettable that your mum doesn't have a filter. Hugs.5 -
" I know I’m fat. I’d have to be an idiot not to know that."
From time to time I've seen people ask how they can tell a relative that they are concerned about their weight and every time I tell them "just don't. They already know and your telling them will only add to their feeling bad. " Sorry you are having to deal with a mother who doesn't get that.1 -
As I am reading all the comments on this thread, I was thinking that with the verbal abuse I remember growing up, it did leave me with one good thing. It made me realize that I hated being treated in those same ways so much that I will never treat someone like that. The hurts we endure as kids seem to stick with us our entire life. We don't outgrow them with age it seems. May we all receive the peace and love that everyone deserves.6
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Only read OP so if someone else said this already, sorry.
Personally I think it is really good, and brave, of your mum to tell you her concern. So many people comment when you lose weight, hardly anyone does when you gain. I wish my loved ones had expressed their concern for my weight gain. Maybe I would have sorted myself out sooner.
Tough love is the best love. These people truly have your best interests at heart.9
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