Back to strict logging or nah?
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youngmomtaz wrote: »Inserting “do not run” into this conversation seems odd though as OP sounds nothing like a beginner and was not asking about the training they were doing at all.
I ran a half marathon last weekend so now I'm hanging up my running shoes for a little while and training for 150km bike race at the end of January.
Lots of trucks around here so hopefully I don't become Ben Jam instead of Benjamin.
Christmas is gonna be hard. I usually let loose with the food and beers at that time of the year and rein in the gains on the kayak in January (southern hemisphere, summer time here(nearly)).8 -
Ben_Likes_Beer wrote: »youngmomtaz wrote: »Inserting “do not run” into this conversation seems odd though as OP sounds nothing like a beginner and was not asking about the training they were doing at all.
I ran a half marathon last weekend so now I'm hanging up my running shoes for a little while and training for 150km bike race at the end of January.
Lots of trucks around here so hopefully I don't become Ben Jam instead of Benjamin.
Christmas is gonna be hard. I usually let loose with the food and beers at that time of the year and rein in the gains on the kayak in January (southern hemisphere, summer time here(nearly)).
You ran a half marathon and you're still alive... it's a miracle if you believe the kitten posted in this thread!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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wilson10102018 wrote: »You shouldn't run 10 miles in the first place. It leads to injury and excessive joint wear.
It's fun.7 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.5 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
As I mentioned "load management" is key to reduce injury risk, not the injuries that stem from a traumatic event such a sheet metal worker might endure.
People in sheet metal shops are under strict load management and guidelines for safety purposes.
Casual runners might not practice load management. That doesn't mean all running is dangerous and causes injuries or bone damage.
We can't pick and chose statics and ignore others.
That like me stating the fact that I ran every day in the year 2016. The distance was no less than 5 miles and no more than 19 miles. I also cycled at least 100 miles a month. I weight trained four days a week.
Played my 8th season as catcher in a competitive baseball league. I was 6'3, averaged 220lbs, at age 48. I also suffer from a progressive joint disease. The only injury I had was a tweaked hamstring a week before a small 5k race which didn't stop me from winning my age class or playing baseball.
My programming had adequate load management.
We can't assume all 48 year old male athletes will have one acute injury with this activity, but with correct load management we can surely reduce the injury risk.
What's next? Should we not drive a car because there is 5 million accidents compared to only 20 in flying.
Certainly there are drivers that manage safety better than others. Managing the load/stress can reduce injury risk. Such as wearing a seat belt can reduce death in a car accident, not prevent it 100%.5 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »Well, to clarify, humans may be effective runners, but not safely and not without substantial damage. So, if there is a therapeutic object, run like the wind. If not, save your knees and feet for the 5 trips to the toilet as a senior. And, to clarify further, i have lost two friends to fatal accidents. One running and one bicycling. And, most of my contemporaries have had or need knee or hip replacements. Some have been running a long time. If you drill into the statistics, the worst record for injuries (really high numbers) are from the obese. Hence the caution about using running for weight loss. I suppose if you are as fit as an athlete with a BMI of 16 and a good place to run (traffic, nice asphalt, etc., probably ok.
How does one die from running? If by "fatal accident" you mean hit by a car or fell down a mountain, those things can happen while walking. Are humans not meant to walk as well, because people die while walking? Seems like a rather strange conclusion to draw from what I'm guessing is an extreme example.5 -
Ben_Likes_Beer wrote: »I've been able to maintain near enough 75kg for the last couple of months without logging, but now I want to get down to 72 for a cycle event at the end of January. I wonder if I need to start back in with the full on calorie counting or if I'll get there just by pumping up the burn? The training program I'm starting will pump it up a bit anyway.
You could also slightly reduce what you are eating. If you want to take the guess work out of it, then log. If you are okay with winging it, then try that. Personally, I find comfort in knowing what to expect, so logging would be my choice. You could also log for a couple days to a week or two to get into the rhythm of it.3 -
Near the beginning of WW1 all British soldiers were issued with steel helmets. The War Office was shocked to discover the number of reported head injuries increase drastically. panicking they began to issue a recall of the helmets. Then they realized that the number of DEATHS had decreased by the same amount. Those soldiers had survived with head injuries rather than dying.
Statistics are all about context and interpretation.7 -
CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14393991 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399
Interesting; I searched around to refute it and found the stats are pretty consistent; roughly 20% to 70% sustain some kind of injury, with the variance primarily based on what was defined as an injury in the various studies.
You would think I would heartily agree with you from personal experience. I had to stop because of joint problems, but they are genetic and were exacerbated, not an injury. I really miss running because of the convenience and solitude. I am around a lot of runners and my experience seems pretty rare - having to stop. Most are minor annoyances. I have to get my shoulder scoped soon (other one doe a few years ago). Should I stop lifting weights? Stop paddling? Walk as my only exercise and just sit around doing nothing the rest of the time? It's a dangerous thing, going out your door...2 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399
I think maybe you should read the abstract. The main issue caused by these injuries, as defined in the abstract, is that they temporarily stop the person from running. Only 5% of them cause the injured person to miss work, and as few as 20% according to one estimate cause the injured person to seek help from a doctor. The majority are resolved by simply RUNNING LESS for a brief period of time.
Not running in order to avoid an injury which might stop you from running seems kind of pointless to me, especially since there are huge additional benefits to running, such as a massive improvement in cardiovascular health.1 -
rheddmobile wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399
I think maybe you should read the abstract. The main issue caused by these injuries, as defined in the abstract, is that they temporarily stop the person from running. Only 5% of them cause the injured person to miss work, and as few as 20% according to one estimate cause the injured person to seek help from a doctor. The majority are resolved by simply RUNNING LESS for a brief period of time.
Not running in order to avoid an injury which might stop you from running seems kind of pointless to me, especially since there are huge additional benefits to running, such as a massive improvement in cardiovascular health.
All of my posts above have been subject to the comment I made regarding cardiac health.
But, as a serious cardiac patient (I had a 25% EF in my recent Echo) consulting with the very top cardiologists at the Cleveland Clinic, I have a lot of info. And, I'm not going to trouble you with what I think are the facts since the effects of cardio exercise on a general population is nothing more than informed speculation based on extrapolation from actual clinical tests of patients recovering from cardiac procedures. I will simply point you to the populations of the longest living persons on the planet, most of whom do exactly ZERO cardio exercise. At best, cardio exercise will permit the aging to engage in activities comfortably that might exhaust their not exercising peers.
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wilson10102018 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399
I think maybe you should read the abstract. The main issue caused by these injuries, as defined in the abstract, is that they temporarily stop the person from running. Only 5% of them cause the injured person to miss work, and as few as 20% according to one estimate cause the injured person to seek help from a doctor. The majority are resolved by simply RUNNING LESS for a brief period of time.
Not running in order to avoid an injury which might stop you from running seems kind of pointless to me, especially since there are huge additional benefits to running, such as a massive improvement in cardiovascular health.
All of my posts above have been subject to the comment I made regarding cardiac health.
But, as a serious cardiac patient (I had a 25% EF in my recent Echo) consulting with the very top cardiologists at the Cleveland Clinic, I have a lot of info. And, I'm not going to trouble you with what I think are the facts since the effects of cardio exercise on a general population is nothing more than informed speculation based on extrapolation from actual clinical tests of patients recovering from cardiac procedures. I will simply point you to the populations of the longest living persons on the planet, most of whom do exactly ZERO cardio exercise. At best, cardio exercise will permit the aging to engage in activities comfortably that might exhaust their not exercising peers.
Our society engages in exercise because our lifestyles don't promote the constant moderate physical activity common to all of the long-lived populations. We have to compensate for that shortfall.
It's cool that you personally are against this, but I'm not quite getting your zeal in promoting your viewpoint as a universal standard.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »CarvedTones wrote: »wilson10102018 wrote: »Humans are not constructed to run on paved surfaces and maybe nowhere. A casual runner (noncompetitive) suffers on average 2 injuries per year requiring medical attention or lost work. That is about an 5 injuries per 1000 hours. The range is 2.5 to 12.5 in the literature. There are sheet metal shops that have 200,000 injury free hours. Meaning that running is about 1000 times more dangerous than working in a sheet metal shop. If it saves your life from cardiac surgery recovery, good for you. To lose weight, its a stupid move.
"The literature" - please provide a link.
Abstract found here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1439399
I think maybe you should read the abstract. The main issue caused by these injuries, as defined in the abstract, is that they temporarily stop the person from running. Only 5% of them cause the injured person to miss work, and as few as 20% according to one estimate cause the injured person to seek help from a doctor. The majority are resolved by simply RUNNING LESS for a brief period of time.
Not running in order to avoid an injury which might stop you from running seems kind of pointless to me, especially since there are huge additional benefits to running, such as a massive improvement in cardiovascular health.
All of my posts above have been subject to the comment I made regarding cardiac health.
But, as a serious cardiac patient (I had a 25% EF in my recent Echo) consulting with the very top cardiologists at the Cleveland Clinic, I have a lot of info. And, I'm not going to trouble you with what I think are the facts since the effects of cardio exercise on a general population is nothing more than informed speculation based on extrapolation from actual clinical tests of patients recovering from cardiac procedures. I will simply point you to the populations of the longest living persons on the planet, most of whom do exactly ZERO cardio exercise. At best, cardio exercise will permit the aging to engage in activities comfortably that might exhaust their not exercising peers.
Our society engages in exercise because our lifestyles don't promote the constant moderate physical activity common to all of the long-lived populations. We have to compensate for that shortfall.
It's cool that you personally are against this, but I'm not quite getting your zeal in promoting your viewpoint as a universal standard.
He sounds like one of my friends who believes that the heart only has so many beats in it, and doing cardio exercise uses them up faster.
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Ben_Likes_Beer wrote: »I've been able to maintain near enough 75kg for the last couple of months without logging, but now I want to get down to 72 for a cycle event at the end of January. I wonder if I need to start back in with the full on calorie counting or if I'll get there just by pumping up the burn? The training program I'm starting will pump it up a bit anyway.
Depends on you. I haven't tracked anything in years and have no issue dropping weight if/when I want/need to. I usually put on 8-10 Lbs over the winter due in large part to my activity level dropping and it comes back off in the spring when I start putting in more miles on my bike and get back into training for various cycling events. I put on about 5 Lbs in late summer/early fall this year while nursing an injury...I'm taking it off now by just cutting back on some snacking.2 -
Lol this post has gone off the deep end.
OP it's up to you... Depends how committed you are to reaching your goal. If you're just kind of like "meh, I'd like to lose the weight but if I don't it's fine" then you could try doing it without the logging.2 -
wilson10102018 wrote: »Exercise creates a false sense of calorie entitlement. Think of this same process for budgeting money for those who overspend. The "exercise calories" are like supplementing the budget with scratch off lottery cards. It just trains you to think the calorie plan is just flexible. Any level of exercise above normal daily in order to increase food intake is a fools errand.
So if someone wins a lot of money playing scratch off lotto cards they shouldn't add that money to their budget?1 -
Ben_Likes_Beer wrote: »Near the beginning of WW1 all British soldiers were issued with steel helmets. The War Office was shocked to discover the number of reported head injuries increase drastically. panicking they began to issue a recall of the helmets. Then they realized that the number of DEATHS had decreased by the same amount. Those soldiers had survived with head injuries rather than dying.
Statistics are all about context and interpretation.
Context and interpretation? You expect us to think about the data and question what it means?4 -
I don't think even Ric Flair could keep up with all of the 'woo's in this thread1
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nutmegoreo wrote: »Ben_Likes_Beer wrote: »Near the beginning of WW1 all British soldiers were issued with steel helmets. The War Office was shocked to discover the number of reported head injuries increase drastically. panicking they began to issue a recall of the helmets. Then they realized that the number of DEATHS had decreased by the same amount. Those soldiers had survived with head injuries rather than dying.
Statistics are all about context and interpretation.
Context and interpretation? You expect us to think about the data and question what it means?
Good God no, what do you think this is...?!3
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