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No intimidation "gyms"

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Replies

  • newmeadow
    newmeadow Posts: 1,295 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    mreichard wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
    They consider deadlifts (and squats, and bench press, and Olympic lifts, and most anything else done with a free barbell) as "intimidating" exercises. Less fit people may be "gymtimidated" by people doing those exercises, lifting such heavy weights, and the noises associated with those lifts.

    What sort of noises do you make when you do these things that the Ellen show can't drown out?
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    cmoorecole wrote: »
    I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.

    I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?

    Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.

    I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.

    Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    cmoorecole wrote: »
    I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.

    I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?

    Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.

    I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.

    Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.

    Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.
  • jseams1234
    jseams1234 Posts: 1,219 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    cmoorecole wrote: »
    I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.

    I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?

    Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.

    I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.

    Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.

    Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.

    Mine doesn’t. It’s either bring your own or buy it from a machine for two dollars... or drink from the sink in the bathroom. ;)

    I have a big Camelback bottle that holds about 32 oz. I can go through that easily on a hot day.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    cmoorecole wrote: »
    I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.

    I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?

    Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.

    I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.

    Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.

    Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.

    In the last decade or so what I mostly see are water cooler type dispensers with little spigots that you have to put a container under, and typically the container supplied if you don't have a water bottle (which is generally awkward to fill because it won't fit upright under spigot) are little paper cones that hold 60 ml max, and aren't practical for retaining to refill later, so you stand there and refill them three or four times to slake your thirst, and then drop them in the trash.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited November 2018
    There's a workout room in my office building (one time payment and you can use it as long as you work in the building, but the hours aren't as good as it should be and the equipment is so-so). Anyway, it has a cooler, but no cups or containers at all. If you forget to bring a container, no water for you! Regular-sized bottles or similar-sized containers fit easily, though, as they do with my office water cooler.

    My gym has water fountains with that attachment that allows you to fill a container. We have no rules on container size, and yet I've never seen ridiculously large containers (although honestly I'm not sure I'd notice, it seems like a super dumb thing to care about or have rules about). The only reason I could see caring is if there were lines at the fountains because people were taking too long to fill up giant containers, and that seems extremely unlikely.

    More on water, went for a nice run the day after Thanksgiving when it was around 50 and actually wanted some water during the last bit of my run. Had chosen a trail not too far from my house along the river where there are fountains (it's in the city). Fountains had nothing to do with while I was running there, but I was happy to see one and ran over and of course it was off, because winter (or almost). Right now running is a pain because the sidewalks are too icy (off and on) in the areas I'd run, so going to have to talk myself into the darn treadmill (which is something one could do at a PF just as well as anywhere else, to get back to topic!). ;-)
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    edited November 2018
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

    I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.

    So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.

    The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.

    In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

    I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.

    So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.

    The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.

    In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.

    That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.

    Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).

    When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.

    I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):

    rw8b82dxr18w.png

    "Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.

    Yes, they're using "judgement free" as a selling point -- they're attempting to persuade us that this is a difference between them and other gyms. That's exactly what people have been arguing here.

    If they're just saying it to "troll people," I don't know if that is better. I would argue that it's actually worse if they don't believe their own promotional points and are just trying to rile people up. I personally think it would be probative if they were genuinely convinced that their gym was better for people in this regard. If they're just saying it for lolz . . . that's poor corporate citizenship.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

    I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.

    So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.

    The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.

    In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.

    That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.

    Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).

    When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.

    I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):

    rw8b82dxr18w.png

    "Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.

    How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?

    I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.

    I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.

    I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them :D . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.

    Perhaps it's regional. I have been seeing PF ads on TV for years. I never noticed the gyms existed until the lunk ads, and I remember them being parodied on the late night talk shows. Do you work at PF? How do you know their advertising strategy?
  • wmd1979
    wmd1979 Posts: 469 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

    I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.

    So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.

    The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.

    In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.

    That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.

    Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).

    When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.

    I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):

    rw8b82dxr18w.png

    "Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.

    How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?

    I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.

    I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.

    I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them :D . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.

    Just because you haven't seen the commercials, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't a major part of their advertising strategy. It seems like you are trying to argue that PF doesn't really mean what they are saying in these commercials because you haven't been exposed to them. That seems to be a pretty ignorant stance in my opinion. They do have good prices, and are very convenient for a lot of people, so I understand the appeal, but their advertising is trash. Its extremely hypocritical of them to call themselves judgement free when they are using extreme stereotypes to define all other gyms.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    MikePTY wrote: »
    It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?

    I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.

    At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.

    PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.

    If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

    Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.

    I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).

    I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.

    So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.

    The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.

    In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.

    That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.

    Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).

    When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.

    I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):

    rw8b82dxr18w.png

    "Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.

    Yes, they're using "judgement free" as a selling point -- they're attempting to persuade us that this is a difference between them and other gyms. That's exactly what people have been arguing here.

    If they're just saying it to "troll people," I don't know if that is better. I would argue that it's actually worse if they don't believe their own promotional points and are just trying to rile people up. I personally think it would be probative if they were genuinely convinced that their gym was better for people in this regard. If they're just saying it for lolz . . . that's poor corporate citizenship.

    This was what I was alluding to in a previous post. To say "it doesn't really matter because they just do it to troll people" and, "it's not really like their ads when you go there" are not really glowing recommendations for Planet Fitness. How does this reflect on their integrity?
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