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No intimidation "gyms"
Replies
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »...and from having been a member of about 20 different gyms over the past 40 years and not ever even once having seen any "scary" or "intimidating" scenario take place in any one of them, this is about how the soundtrack plays in my head when somebody says they're afraid of going into a gym (I've already admitted I'm not the sensitive, touchy-feely type):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APwfZYO1di4
It's interesting that the PF ads shown don't have any obviously overweight/obese people as the main character or using the equipment in the background while the victim of gym-intimidation tells their story to the PF rep.
If you go in my mean, intimidating gym any time of the day you will see overweight/obese people going about their business and not being bothered. Are we to infer from the lack of people that represent 70% of the US population in their ads PF doesn't want these people in their unicorns and rainbows world?
Sure, that's a reasonable criticism (although I suspect it's more likely that while they're happy to take the money from people who are unfit, they don't want people who are in denial about how unfit they are to see overweight/obese people in the commercial and think "oh, that place is only for fat people, and I'm not fat"). But they certainly run the risk of those who aren't in denial looking at the ads and saying, "oh, I wouldn't feel comfortable there either. People would still be judging me."
I realize you probably were being sarcastic, but that's at least as valid a criticism as the idea that PF invented the idea that there are people who are uncomfortable about going to gyms.
Not being sarcastic at all, just pointing out my perception that PF advertising is actually pretty judgmental/hypercritical. They are paying a lot of money to their ad agency to put out just the message they want. I also noticed you don't see anyone over 40 in their TV ads either. The website/advertising materials for my "mean, judgmental gym" show people of all ages and fitness levels.
Where's the judgment zone now?6 -
It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?16
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »I hate just copying and pasting parts, which could take things out of context, but we've created a monstrous wall of text and I'm not sure I could even find the few parts I want to respond to if I quoted the whole thing.
Yeah, I'm not sure how we managed to make it so complicated.
My position is pretty simple: PF's ads are bad, and that they are apparently effective makes them worse, it's not an excuse. I don't (obviously!) think that means they should be banned, but I think the badness of the ads and that they rely on encouraging fear and us against them thinking and on suggesting that people who are fit are likely to be dumb or mean or shallow.I guess I'm free to doubt your claims about being offended by the PF ads.
I specifically said that I am not "offended" by them, I don't get offended that easily and they aren't really directed at me anyway. I said I think they are bad for the reasons I've said, and have a negative influence, and so PF should be called out for using them.
I also don't doubt that people are often a little uncomfortable about going to a gym for the first time, as I said I was. I think PF likely encourages that problem rather than making things better.
I also think this idea that people who want PF because they believe it would be less intimidating than other gyms are in a power imbalance with the rest of us is very bizarre.
The reason I mentioned some PF members making claims about PF vs. other gyms is because you insisted that they weren't really influenced by the ads, that PF's ads were only really about cost and hours. I don't think that's true based on what PF fans actually say, as well as the apparent success of this particular ad campaign. I also don't think that there's any evidence that PF actually provides a better experience or less intimidating one than other gyms, or that people who choose it were traumatized by other gyms because of women in sports bras or lunks or what not. But there's no way to prove it either way in the context of this discussion.
TLDR: PF's ad campaign rubs me the wrong way, I think it has a somewhat negative effect on the world, and I dislike PF as a result. I'd be unwilling to join, given other options, as a result, but clearly for them the monetary gains from the ads outweigh any possible losses (I also wouldn't go there since I want other stuff in a gym, so no loss, I'm not an expected customer).6 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I think lunks and fat people who eat Pringles in bed and take the elevator to go up one floor usually get along pretty well.
I worked with this lunk who was very good natured and loved to tell dirty stories to large groups of people with no fear of repercussion.
He had a little crush on me even though I'm fat and out of breath and he asked to be my partner in our yearly mandatory diversity class when we had to do the role playing.
He used to ask to do CPR on me and he would call me at all hours and sing Rhianna songs on my voicemail and change the lyrics so they were more titillating.
Then he quit to go work in a vitamin store and I really miss him.4 -
I'm not sure why this whole "getting your feelings hurt" narrative is being brought up. It comes across as minimizing the opinions of others in a kind of gaslighting way. As many have said, PF ads come across as offensive. Anyone is free to disagree with that.
As far as stereotype, they are pretty much equally offensive whether they are meant to be fat shaming or "lunk" shaming. It's not really a matter of one being better than another. It still fosters an "us vs. them" mentality. Quite honestly, while I find PF's ads in very poor taste and misleading, I don't really agree with the OP's polarizing characterizations either.8 -
OP's post makes no sense, since he seems to assume that "not intimidating" means "no actual exercising gets done." I've been involved in various group training program (including for a half ironman) and a member of various gyms, and none were intimidating, and yet people worked hard. I don't see why intimidation = working harder, vs. discouraging people from thinking they can exercise too.
Even the gyms focused on heavy lifting don't seem to sell themselves as "intimidating." I got a groupon for DEXA at a local powerlifting focused gym and the people there were all about how they liked to see new people and beginners were of course welcome, people were at all different levels. I didn't join since it's not convenient and I like my gym. Same when I did an olympic lifting class for a while (where you would sometimes drop weights) -- people were actually very friendly and excited to see other people interested in an activity they liked.4 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA6 -
I'm not sure why this whole "getting your feelings hurt" narrative is being brought up. It comes across as minimizing the opinions of others in a kind of gaslighting way. As many have said, PF ads come across as offensive. Anyone is free to disagree with that.
As far as stereotype, they are pretty much equally offensive whether they are meant to be fat shaming or "lunk" shaming. It's not really a matter of one being better than another. It still fosters an "us vs. them" mentality. Quite honestly, while I find PF's ads in very poor taste and misleading, I don't really agree with the OP's polarizing characterizations either.
Well, it's being brought up explicitly as a gaslighty way to minimize the opinions of others. That's a feature, not a bug.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmoorecole wrote: »I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.
I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?
Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.
I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.
Yeah, I'm most comfortable running when I'm wearing shorts/leggings that are close-fitting. I don't like the sensation of my pants flapping around during a workout. It's a comfort thing related to the physical part of my sport, that it's revealing is unintended. I'm sure people who do other fitness activities have similar preferences. People get hot when they exercise, many people don't want their clothes to get in the way. That many workout clothes are "revealing" in a way that might be noteworthy in other contexts didn't happen because people who work out are vain/intentionally provocative (although certain individuals *might* be), it's because it helps meet the demands of the activity.
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amen to OP. Bagels mondays and pizza fridays (or whatever they are) are just my biggest pet peeve LOL7
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
What sort of noises do you make when you do these things that the Ellen show can't drown out?4 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmoorecole wrote: »I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.
I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?
Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.
I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.
Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmoorecole wrote: »I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.
I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?
Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.
I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.
Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.
Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.3 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmoorecole wrote: »I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.
I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?
Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.
I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.
Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.
Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.
Mine doesn’t. It’s either bring your own or buy it from a machine for two dollars... or drink from the sink in the bathroom.
I have a big Camelback bottle that holds about 32 oz. I can go through that easily on a hot day.1 -
So in actual important news, WhooHoo! Mars Lander!7
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Packerjohn wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmoorecole wrote: »I have to tread carefully here. On the one hand, the idea of PF sounds great and I especially love that they will throw you out for wearing sexy workout clothes and treating the place as your singles pickup facility and that they toss out guys who make a lot of noise while lifting weights, etc, etc.
I guess I don't understand why it would be a plus if a gym threw people out for wearing "sexy workout clothes," given that is a pretty vague term. If PF asks someone to leave because their clothes are "perceived as . . . revealing" (the language on their website), how does that improve my workout experience (as a member of that gym) in any way?
Yeah, their actual rules (or at least what they were a few years back when I looked them up when there was a thread about the actual rules) seem to have a lot of bizarre stuff in. Sometimes the most sensible clothes for an activity (e.g., snug fitting so loose clothing doesn't get caught on equipment) might be construed as revealing (if "revealing" includes body contour as well as actual skin) -- or comfortable clothes temperature-wise in a warm gym is likely to leave some bare skin.
I believe I recall some PF restriction on the allowable size of water containers you can bring into the gym, apparently because there's some belief that intimidating heavy-lifting folk like to carry their water around in gallon containers. I don't recall having seen this since fear of being underhydrated has led to practically everyone carrying around 16 to 20 oz containers of water practically everywhere they go. Even before that, I don't remember it being at all common to carry gallon-containers of water into gyms. I think I maybe saw a few guys do this, and I just figured it was practicality -- they bought their milk in gallon containers and then refilled them with water because those were the most readily available, cheapest reclosable food-safe containers they had to hand.
Which to me is pretty stupid in the weight area of a gym when you're normally within 100 ft at the most of a drinking fountain. End of rant, carry on.
Guess it depends on where you are. I've belonged to multiple gyms that didn't have drinking fountains.
In the last decade or so what I mostly see are water cooler type dispensers with little spigots that you have to put a container under, and typically the container supplied if you don't have a water bottle (which is generally awkward to fill because it won't fit upright under spigot) are little paper cones that hold 60 ml max, and aren't practical for retaining to refill later, so you stand there and refill them three or four times to slake your thirst, and then drop them in the trash.0 -
There's a workout room in my office building (one time payment and you can use it as long as you work in the building, but the hours aren't as good as it should be and the equipment is so-so). Anyway, it has a cooler, but no cups or containers at all. If you forget to bring a container, no water for you! Regular-sized bottles or similar-sized containers fit easily, though, as they do with my office water cooler.
My gym has water fountains with that attachment that allows you to fill a container. We have no rules on container size, and yet I've never seen ridiculously large containers (although honestly I'm not sure I'd notice, it seems like a super dumb thing to care about or have rules about). The only reason I could see caring is if there were lines at the fountains because people were taking too long to fill up giant containers, and that seems extremely unlikely.
More on water, went for a nice run the day after Thanksgiving when it was around 50 and actually wanted some water during the last bit of my run. Had chosen a trail not too far from my house along the river where there are fountains (it's in the city). Fountains had nothing to do with while I was running there, but I was happy to see one and ran over and of course it was off, because winter (or almost). Right now running is a pain because the sidewalks are too icy (off and on) in the areas I'd run, so going to have to talk myself into the darn treadmill (which is something one could do at a PF just as well as anywhere else, to get back to topic!). ;-)0 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
I have been going to PF for years, spending hundreds of hours in the gym, and not once has the lunk alarm been activated. I don't even know if it is hooked up.
I have seen numerous "violations", where if someone was militantly enforcing the rules they could have sounded the alarm (grunting, dropping weights, bro-attire)- but no one actually really cares, the anti-lunk thing it is just a marketing image meant to discourage the presence of certain people in advance - you would have to almost intentionally make a big spectacle of yourself to cause a response, and the attendant would likely just walk over and chat with you rather than sounding some alarm.
The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.7
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