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No intimidation "gyms"
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
I have been going to PF for years, spending hundreds of hours in the gym, and not once has the lunk alarm been activated. I don't even know if it is hooked up.
I have seen numerous "violations", where if someone was militantly enforcing the rules they could have sounded the alarm (grunting, dropping weights, bro-attire)- but no one actually really cares, the anti-lunk thing it is just a marketing image meant to discourage the presence of certain people in advance - you would have to almost intentionally make a big spectacle of yourself to cause a response, and the attendant would likely just walk over and chat with you rather than sounding some alarm.
The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.
So, your saying that in addition to being offensive via stereotyping their marketing is fake and they don't really do what they say and it's just aimed at keeping "certain people" away?12 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.10 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
I have been going to PF for years, spending hundreds of hours in the gym, and not once has the lunk alarm been activated. I don't even know if it is hooked up.
I have seen numerous "violations", where if someone was militantly enforcing the rules they could have sounded the alarm (grunting, dropping weights, bro-attire)- but no one actually really cares, the anti-lunk thing it is just a marketing image meant to discourage the presence of certain people in advance - you would have to almost intentionally make a big spectacle of yourself to cause a response, and the attendant would likely just walk over and chat with you rather than sounding some alarm.
The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.
So, your saying that in addition to being offensive via stereotyping their marketing is fake and they don't really do what they say and it's just aimed at keeping "certain people" away?
Stop with the faux outrage and victimhood. PF is discouraging certain behaviors, not people - you can choose to behave according to their rules or you can go somewhere else.15 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.9 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
I have been going to PF for years, spending hundreds of hours in the gym, and not once has the lunk alarm been activated. I don't even know if it is hooked up.
I have seen numerous "violations", where if someone was militantly enforcing the rules they could have sounded the alarm (grunting, dropping weights, bro-attire)- but no one actually really cares, the anti-lunk thing it is just a marketing image meant to discourage the presence of certain people in advance - you would have to almost intentionally make a big spectacle of yourself to cause a response, and the attendant would likely just walk over and chat with you rather than sounding some alarm.
The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.
"How dare you judge us based on how we choose to represent ourselves publicly" is a bit of a weird stance to take.10 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
So let me understand, if the "lunk alarm" goes off at a planet fitness when I am deadlifting there (assuming I could find an Olympic bar and plates) because I grunted or clanked weights that are heavy FOR ME (but wouldn't be for an actually strong person), am I being shamed for being a lunk? Or am I being shamed for "acting in a way that people find offensive"? Also, given that pretty much 100% of people will clank the weights a bit when doing heavy deadlifts, is there just something inherently "lunky" about doing deadlifts that deserves shaming, despite the fact that most experts think that deadlifts are the most effective single exercise for developing whole body strength? TIA
I have been going to PF for years, spending hundreds of hours in the gym, and not once has the lunk alarm been activated. I don't even know if it is hooked up.
I have seen numerous "violations", where if someone was militantly enforcing the rules they could have sounded the alarm (grunting, dropping weights, bro-attire)- but no one actually really cares, the anti-lunk thing it is just a marketing image meant to discourage the presence of certain people in advance - you would have to almost intentionally make a big spectacle of yourself to cause a response, and the attendant would likely just walk over and chat with you rather than sounding some alarm.
The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.
So, your saying that in addition to being offensive via stereotyping their marketing is fake and they don't really do what they say and it's just aimed at keeping "certain people" away?
Stop with the faux outrage and victimhood. PF is discouraging certain behaviors, not people - you can choose to behave according to their rules or you can go somewhere else.
Lol! No victim here. I am free to choose what gym I go to and I'm perfectly comfortable with that. And no outrage either. You seem to want to characterize other people's thoughts in a gaslighting kind of way if they don't agree with you.
My view is very simple and I've stated it multiple times. They may be a fine gym and useful for many folks. I don't like their marketing approach. They utilize negative stereotypes that demean some kinds of people and create an us vs. them mentality. For that reason, I would not patronize them and see it as a valid choice and position to take.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
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Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.6 -
The mockery and stereotypes in PF's advertisements aren't relevant to anything actually happening in other gyms either.Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »...The presence of the lunk alarm is just a trigger for people who have never actually set foot in a PF but are nonetheless strongly opposed to the PF franchise to bash PF, it isn't relevant to anything actually happening there.
I mean, it's almost as ridiculous as the thought that somebody might wither up and run away because somebody walked into the gym in a stringer tank top, or carrying a gallon water bottle. Or lifted a weight heavier than their purse in front of others.Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Almost.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.2 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
Yes, they're using "judgement free" as a selling point -- they're attempting to persuade us that this is a difference between them and other gyms. That's exactly what people have been arguing here.
If they're just saying it to "troll people," I don't know if that is better. I would argue that it's actually worse if they don't believe their own promotional points and are just trying to rile people up. I personally think it would be probative if they were genuinely convinced that their gym was better for people in this regard. If they're just saying it for lolz . . . that's poor corporate citizenship.3 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.
I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them
. Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships. 5 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.
I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.
Perhaps it's regional. I have been seeing PF ads on TV for years. I never noticed the gyms existed until the lunk ads, and I remember them being parodied on the late night talk shows. Do you work at PF? How do you know their advertising strategy?4 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.
I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.
Just because you haven't seen the commercials, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't a major part of their advertising strategy. It seems like you are trying to argue that PF doesn't really mean what they are saying in these commercials because you haven't been exposed to them. That seems to be a pretty ignorant stance in my opinion. They do have good prices, and are very convenient for a lot of people, so I understand the appeal, but their advertising is trash. Its extremely hypocritical of them to call themselves judgement free when they are using extreme stereotypes to define all other gyms.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
Yes, they're using "judgement free" as a selling point -- they're attempting to persuade us that this is a difference between them and other gyms. That's exactly what people have been arguing here.
If they're just saying it to "troll people," I don't know if that is better. I would argue that it's actually worse if they don't believe their own promotional points and are just trying to rile people up. I personally think it would be probative if they were genuinely convinced that their gym was better for people in this regard. If they're just saying it for lolz . . . that's poor corporate citizenship.
This was what I was alluding to in a previous post. To say "it doesn't really matter because they just do it to troll people" and, "it's not really like their ads when you go there" are not really glowing recommendations for Planet Fitness. How does this reflect on their integrity?3 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.
I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.
Just because you haven't seen the commercials, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't a major part of their advertising strategy. It seems like you are trying to argue that PF doesn't really mean what they are saying in these commercials because you haven't been exposed to them. That seems to be a pretty ignorant stance in my opinion. They do have good prices, and are very convenient for a lot of people, so I understand the appeal, but their advertising is trash. Its extremely hypocritical of them to call themselves judgement free when they are using extreme stereotypes to define all other gyms.
You clearly misunderstood what I said - it is always a good policy to ensure you are comprehending someone's message before descending into calling others ignorant, it isn't a good look.
I asserted that PF's advertising was mostly internet-centric. That has nothing to do with PF believing their own commercials - if you saw the Google search result I posted above or visited their web landing page you don't find anything resembling the commercials "anti-lunk" content, it is all pricing, convenience, and judgment-free messaging. PF conquered the gym industry and has 10 million members because they charge $10 per month, the rest is far behind that in customer motivation.6 -
Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »Bry_Fitness70 wrote: »It takes a tremendous amount of contorting to equivocate shaming fat people with shaming lunks. A lunk behaves in a way that many find offensive, it isn't just the state of being heavily muscled. If you are a big monster of a guy (like the guys in that PF commercial) but quietly going about your workout, then none of these PF commercials are targeted at you. And yet people are actually stretching a long way to find elements of the "lunk" stereotype within themselves in order to feign offense. "Poor me, I am a guy with big muscles and my feelings are being hurt" lol, really?
I am far from what anyone would consider a lunk. On a good day, my fitness level can generously be described as average. For my height and weight, I am probably out lifted by 90% of the people at the gym. But when I lift weights, I sometimes make noise, and even *gasp* grunt. This is not done to intimidate others, or make me look tough and cool. In reality it does the opposite, as I look kind of silly struggling through fairly meager weights. But I am still trying to push myself, and will fight hard for that extra rep or two, that I wouldn't have been able to do if I treated the gym as if it was the library.
At some point, if a gym is trying to shame people who are minding their own business for making noise during their workout or doing certain type of lifts, then in reality they do become an intimidation gym. They are just intimidating a different set of people. I can tell you that if I worked out at a gym like that, I would feel intimidated and bullied. And I'm not some super confident muscular guy where I can just easily let that roll off me.
PF is discouraging Tarzan-like alpha-male "look at me!" types of howling when you lift. Incidental grunting is commonplace. Yes, if you actually go there you may learn what actually happens there.
If you feel intimidated and bullied in a PF gym, I seriously wonder how the hell you manage to cope with the real world on a day-to-day basis.
Couldn't you say the same thing about people who join PF because they're worried about someone else wearing something too revealing on the treadmill next to them? Their entire business model is centered on the principle that there are lots of people who are too fragile to handle what is happening in other gyms.
I think some people do go there to escape intimidation -however, others do it because it is cheap, clean, and convenient (my reason) and still others are looking to escape annoyances (that is also fine with me).
I understand people go for a variety of reasons, but their marketing strategy is centered on appealing to people who believe other gyms are full of people who are intimidating, mean, vain, and annoying.
So if I'm wondering if someone can make it in the real world, I think the type of person PF is targeting with their ads is a lot less resilient and adaptable than someone who is turned off by the stereotyping inherent in the ad campaigns.
The PF I workout at was once a traditional gym where I had been a member for years. One day we received an email that PF had acquired it and that it was closing down for a month to bring in the purple equipment. A lot of us were very disappointed because it was a great gym. When they reopened it, about half of the people I knew there just remained because it was convenient and cheap, none of us were seeking shelter from intimidation.
In reality, almost the entirety of the advertising concerns pricing and hours - if they double their price or reduce their hours, they will lose a lot of members to other gyms and rec centers, the intimidation-free thing will not sustain their business model.
That may be true, the point is that PF thinks the way they brand themselves is good for their business. Despite you thinking it's irrelevant to customers, the PF promotional team clearly disagrees. It's possible they're completely wrong and you're right. I'm going to assume that they have at least some reason for choosing this strategy.
Nobody is arguing that PF customers are bad people or that they're all choosing PF to escape "intimidation" or avoid seeing someone workout in a tiny top. What people are objecting to is the messages in their promotional campaign, messages that were freely chosen by PF itself. Even if members are making their decision based on things like pricing, the PF webpage is centering the "judgement free experience" (they've even trademarked a slogan based on it).
When people criticize this campaign, they aren't criticizing you or the other members of your gym. Whether or not you find the ad campaign relevant to your interests, it's a real thing that exists.
I just Googled PF and here is the top result (which is sponsored, so it is the one that PF wants you to find):
"Judgement free" is referenced, but there is no lunk-shaming anywhere to be found. When I click on the PF link, it takes me to a page that shows me the gym it thinks is closest to me and the pricing options. The anti-lunk thing is an attention-getter but it isn't important enough to their business model to even reference it in their corporate advertising. I honestly think they just stay with it to troll people at this point.
How do you not consider their most memorable TV commercials part of their "corporate advertising"?
I don't think they are using the lunk-shaming in their current round of promotions, as most large corporate entities do cycle through their primary messaging from time to time. Now they have toned it down to just the "judgement free" (which does still suggest that you will risk being judged if you go elsewhere). But they ran those lunk commercials for years, they would be something most people think of when they think of PF.
I have no skin in this game, I have actually never gone to a public gym. I don't think people should be put down for going to PF or are less serious about getting fit, but I don't think it's out of line to find their advertising insulting and demeaning, and ironically quite judgmental.
I have never actually seen any of PF commercials on TV, they have only come to my attention, ironically enough, as reposts by people who are offended by them . Their corporate advertising strategy is primarily advertising on the internet by buying priority placement in search engines, because that is where people will actually go to get more information about local gyms and sign up for memberships.
Just because you haven't seen the commercials, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't a major part of their advertising strategy. It seems like you are trying to argue that PF doesn't really mean what they are saying in these commercials because you haven't been exposed to them. That seems to be a pretty ignorant stance in my opinion. They do have good prices, and are very convenient for a lot of people, so I understand the appeal, but their advertising is trash. Its extremely hypocritical of them to call themselves judgement free when they are using extreme stereotypes to define all other gyms.
You clearly misunderstood what I said - it is always a good policy to ensure you are comprehending someone's message before descending into calling others ignorant, it isn't a good look.
I asserted that PF's advertising was mostly internet-centric. That has nothing to do with PF believing their own commercials - if you saw the Google search result I posted above or visited their web landing page you don't find anything resembling the commercials "anti-lunk" content, it is all pricing, convenience, and judgment-free messaging. PF conquered the gym industry and has 10 million members because they charge $10 per month, the rest is far behind that in customer motivation.
You're divorcing the "anti-lunk" content from the "judgement free" stuff, but they're really the same core message. It's a negative message about other gyms and the people who go to them.
Are you privy to how much they spend on advertising? I don't understand the basis for the claim that their advertising is mostly on the internet. I see their commercials on TV, I've heard them on the radio, I've also seen them online. I have no idea what they do most of. I only know what I see most of and that is heavily influenced by my internet habits, media consumption choices, what ads are being targeted to me, and my geographic location.5
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