Eating for the Orangutans - and me!
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Is there a list anywhere which will summarise those items using Palm Oil? I saw one really good one but it was Australian. It said Milky Way did use PO but Cadbury didn't and I KNOW Cadbury chocolate has PO in it! And is sustainable PO really sustainable? Is it better to try to avoid it completely?0
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I have curly wurly (4 pots, at the moment, oops) and it is perfect and i am blonde. But it does not alter my texture a lot so i think your hubby will be fine.
I worked for Lush for 7 years and i love their ethics. I love how they made a palmfree soap base and just gave the formula to the world to use. Any soap company can use it so there is less need for palmoil.2 -
Blobby10 - so far I've not found anything really comprehensive. But if you have an ingredients list in front of you and any of these are in it, it will contain palm oil (some SLS is coconut derived but not much): This is from WWF. not the wrestlers.
INGREDIENTS: Vegetable Oil, Vegetable Fat, Palm Kernel, Palm Kernel Oil, Palm Fruit Oil, Palmate, Palmitate, Palmolein, Glyceryl, Stearate, Stearic Acid, Elaeis Guineensis, Palmitic Acid, Palm Stearine, Palmitoyl Oxostearamide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-3, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Sodium Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Lauryl Lactylate/Sulphate, Hyrated Palm Glycerides, Etyl Palmitate, Octyl Palmitate, Palmityl Alcohol
Yes Cadburys in Oz is palm free because consumers campaigned for it. In the UK we've been very noisy about factory closures for moves to cheaper EU countries, the resizing of the bars, the sweetening of the bars, the weird oily taste of the bars, but they have gone la la la not listening. Maybe because we moan about everything!
Despite what WWF and Greenpeace say, very few manufacturers go to the trouble of announcing the sustainability of their palm oil on labels, so you often have to check the website. Cadbury uk have nothing at all about palm on their website (I know from Greenpeace that their owners Mondelez are considered to buy 'dirty' palm oil) so I'm avoiding them full stop.
I was discussing Greenpeace's official stance with hubby this weekend, because he wants to avoid palm oil as much as possible too, and he is anoyed that Greenpeace have said don't boycott it. But I think I know why this is the advice. In the EU 50% of the stuff in our supermarkets has palm oil in it, but some companies have joined ROSPO because there is a government-level concern about deforestation as well as a consumer one, and there's an expectation such demand will help clean up the industry. In order for governments to talk effectively to producer countries, we still need a stake in the market. If producer territories limit land use, stop deforestation (and try to reverse), and improve working practices then palm oil is a very efficient crop. The hope is, a demand for sustainable palm oil in the West will drive better practice, but it's a bit too long-term for my liking, especially as India and China are big consumers of no qualm palm. What's more, a glut of palm oil doesn't stop the deals as we've seen (deal Malaysia - China in October, an extra 500,000 tonnes to be purchased in 2019), it just drives the price down, and in previous years that has just increased volume and bad practices such as slavery and child labour, as well as deforestation.
My position is, I want to live a long, healthy life in a world that's fit to leave to the next generation, and so I want to do my bit the best I can. I know it's much better for me not to eat the stuff. However, the ubiquitousness of palm oil means even if I decide to totally boycott palm, in practice I probably can't. Hence I've found this site really useful: https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/
For example, I have sensitive teeth and usually use an advanced or Pro-enamel toothpaste, so Lush toothy tabs were not an option for me. I don't subscribe, but used the guide to switch up from nasty Colgate to Arm & Hammer who score a bit better.0 -
Thanks Wishusdonna - how on earth are we supposed to distinguish between true vegetable oil and palm oil 'vegetable oil'?! And does Glyceryl always have PO in it? I have so many questions!! I saw that list from WWF but I guess that, as a teeny tiny consumer in a vast global market, I will be content with doing the little bit that I can and avoid PO as much as possible. Like all the global warming stuff, little old me in the middle of the UK reducing her carbon footprint isn't going to make a blind bit of difference when the likes of China, India and USA don't give a damn! Same with PO consumption.1
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Thanks Wishusdonna - how on earth are we supposed to distinguish between true vegetable oil and palm oil 'vegetable oil'?! And does Glyceryl always have PO in it? I have so many questions!! I saw that list from WWF but I guess that, as a teeny tiny consumer in a vast global market, I will be content with doing the little bit that I can and avoid PO as much as possible. Like all the global warming stuff, little old me in the middle of the UK reducing her carbon footprint isn't going to make a blind bit of difference when the likes of China, India and USA don't give a damn! Same with PO consumption.
I beg to differ with you, blobby10.
There are lots of people in the U.S. (and I suspect also in China and India) who do care - so a blanket statement like yours is very unfair.
I've been actively talking about this for decades, and there are many environmentally minded people in my circle.
You're right though, I think it's probably too late for the Orangs. They are such lovely creatures.
It's not just the Orangs, either.
I take solace in the fact that the Earth will win at some point. It will shake humans off and start over.
I'll probably die before that happens, but it is a difficult situation to witness all the cruelty in the name of profit.
Signed,
U.S./World Citizen5 -
The cold hard truth is that saving wildlife is a political responsibility of the local people.
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cmriverside - I do apologise for my generalisation and appreciate that there must be lots of people in those countries who do care.0
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There are lots of people the world over who are concerned, and that includes China and India. You can see on Twitter if you type in 棕榈油 and then translate the results, many Chinese-speaking people concerned about the ubiquitousness of palm oil, mainly because of the health and social implications for humans but also the environment.
I would agree with CMriverside, Blobby10, plenty of concern in US over a lot of big processing. A lot of despair too, for people who just can't get hold of good food. We're seeing it in Britain in places with effective 'food deserts'.
JeromeBarry1, I don't think we can afford to think that way really, but luckily it's local people driving awareness in SE Asia, running the sanctuaries, buying up land to prevent deforestation. Did you know Malaysian Primary Industry Minister Teresa Kok thinks we're all hypocrites because we allowed the forests in Britain to be destroyed without protest in our industrial revolution? Well, maybe she's not read enough Romantic Poetry to know about opposition to clearances, and we did send a few of the protestors to Australia... otherwise, it's true! In 1919 only 5% of the land was wooded so the FC was established, but it didn't make anyone get licenses for tree felling until 1941. We now have 12.9% woodland. It has always been a pain to be bothered about things, but we can do it!
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Bad news!
My cat has put his paw down. I used my consumer guide to pick a more ethical cat food brand. He used to eat Butchers, so I tried him again, easing him in by mixing it with KiteKat. Nope. Have to cover the stuff in cat yoghurt to get him to eat it and he looks at it mournfully.
What can I expect? He's a cold-hearted killer. An ageing and fussy one.
Made a loaf last night. It is great, but because I went to the gym first, and the buses were late, I ended up making the bread at 9pm and then it was gone midnight by the time it was cool enough for sandwiches.
They will be delicious sandwiches.
Quite impactful on the old food log. I guess you tend to cut delicious homemade bread slices quite thick! I'm on 65% carbs before dinner tonight.2 -
cmriverside wrote: »
"Woo" on this site is used when someone disagrees...
Oh no, I've been Woo-ing people all over the place thinking I was cheering them on!3 -
cmriverside wrote: »I don't believe for one minute there is any such thing as sustainably harvested palm oil. I don't think there is oversight or accountability, and it's really too late for the orangs who have been burned up with their families in their own homes. We get all wound up over California wildfires, and yet this is comparable to genocide.
But call me a cynic, @kshama2001
- and I'll own that label proudly. I'm friendly with an orangutan activist, I mean she's pretty much dedicated all her free time to that cause for 30ish years, and she has been to these countries and has horrible stories to tell.
It's just an unnecessary ingredient that helps with texture and shelf life and it is in everything. Don't get me started.
The woo button is right there next to the hug. Feel free.
The bold sentence gets closer to the reason that I think palm oil is so prevalent in foods: cooking at home from 'scratch' isn't as popular as it once was. I've never been in any kitchen that had a bottle of palm oil in the cupboard, and, I don't think I've ever once seen it for sale at the grocery store. (not to say it isn't out there for retail purchase, just that I've not run across it ).
I think the stuff adds an unpleasant aftertaste and I avoid it like the bubonic plague.
What is interesting is that there is an alternative to palm oil that is sustainably farmed in Brazil called Babassu oil. The babassu tree is a half sister to palm and coconut and the oil can be used interchangeably with either and is actually superior to both palm and coconut in personal care products because it is non pore clogging (comedogenic rating of 1 where both coconut and palm oil are rated 4 on a scale of 0-5). I make my own shampoo, conditioner, lotion, etc and stopped using palm oil decades ago (I need to avoid many of the preservatives you find in commercial personal care items because they release formaldehyde which I am allergic to)2 -
cmriverside wrote: »I don't believe for one minute there is any such thing as sustainably harvested palm oil. I don't think there is oversight or accountability, and it's really too late for the orangs who have been burned up with their families in their own homes. We get all wound up over California wildfires, and yet this is comparable to genocide.
But call me a cynic, @kshama2001 - and I'll own that label proudly. I'm friendly with an orangutan activist, I mean she's pretty much dedicated all her free time to that cause for 30ish years, and she has been to these countries and has horrible stories to tell.
It's just an unnecessary ingredient that helps with texture and shelf life and it is in everything. Don't get me started.
The woo button is right there next to the hug. Feel free.
The bold sentence gets closer to the reason that I think palm oil is so prevalent in foods: cooking at home from 'scratch' isn't as popular as it once was. I've never been in any kitchen that had a bottle of palm oil in the cupboard, and, I don't think I've ever once seen it for sale at the grocery store. (not to say it isn't out there for retail purchase, just that I've not run across it ).
I think the stuff adds an unpleasant aftertaste and I avoid it like the bubonic plague.
What is interesting is that there is an alternative to palm oil that is sustainably farmed in Brazil called Babassu oil. The babassu tree is a half sister to palm and coconut and the oil can be used interchangeably with either and is actually superior to both palm and coconut in personal care products because it is non pore clogging (comedogenic rating of 1 where both coconut and palm oil are rated 4 on a scale of 0-5). I make my own shampoo, conditioner, lotion, etc and stopped using palm oil decades ago (I need to avoid many of the preservatives you find in commercial personal care items because they release formaldehyde which I am allergic to)
Where do you get it? Is it something you order online?0 -
@earlnabby, does it have an aroma? I tend to use coconut oil for skin and hair, but I'm open to change.
Wishusdonna, I have one of those cats, too. I've tried the healthy food from the healthy pet store and by prescription from the vet. I even went "raw" for her and she was not having it.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I don't believe for one minute there is any such thing as sustainably harvested palm oil. I don't think there is oversight or accountability, and it's really too late for the orangs who have been burned up with their families in their own homes. We get all wound up over California wildfires, and yet this is comparable to genocide.
But call me a cynic, @kshama2001 - and I'll own that label proudly. I'm friendly with an orangutan activist, I mean she's pretty much dedicated all her free time to that cause for 30ish years, and she has been to these countries and has horrible stories to tell.
It's just an unnecessary ingredient that helps with texture and shelf life and it is in everything. Don't get me started.
The woo button is right there next to the hug. Feel free.
The bold sentence gets closer to the reason that I think palm oil is so prevalent in foods: cooking at home from 'scratch' isn't as popular as it once was. I've never been in any kitchen that had a bottle of palm oil in the cupboard, and, I don't think I've ever once seen it for sale at the grocery store. (not to say it isn't out there for retail purchase, just that I've not run across it ).
I think the stuff adds an unpleasant aftertaste and I avoid it like the bubonic plague.
What is interesting is that there is an alternative to palm oil that is sustainably farmed in Brazil called Babassu oil. The babassu tree is a half sister to palm and coconut and the oil can be used interchangeably with either and is actually superior to both palm and coconut in personal care products because it is non pore clogging (comedogenic rating of 1 where both coconut and palm oil are rated 4 on a scale of 0-5). I make my own shampoo, conditioner, lotion, etc and stopped using palm oil decades ago (I need to avoid many of the preservatives you find in commercial personal care items because they release formaldehyde which I am allergic to)
Where do you get it? Is it something you order online?
Yes. I have several sources I buy from, depending on what else I need (I also use argan oil a lot and camellia seed oil in my conditioner)
https://www.camdengrey.com/essential-oils/Carrier-Oils/babassu-oil.html is the lowest price but you need a $25 minimum purchase to order from them. They do have a huge selection of products like essential oils, other carrier oils, and even bases that you just need to add a scent.
Other places are Mountain Rose Herbs, Brambleberry, and even Ebay, Etsy, or Amazon. If you just want to buy the oil. Ebay is often a good source.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »@earlnabby, does it have an aroma? I tend to use coconut oil for skin and hair, but I'm open to change.
Wishusdonna, I have one of those cats, too. I've tried the healthy food from the healthy pet store and by prescription from the vet. I even went "raw" for her and she was not having it.
Not really. Very mild "oily" smell if any can be detected. Like coconut, it is solid at room temp but liquefies at just under 80° (or in your hand)1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I don't believe for one minute there is any such thing as sustainably harvested palm oil. I don't think there is oversight or accountability, and it's really too late for the orangs who have been burned up with their families in their own homes. We get all wound up over California wildfires, and yet this is comparable to genocide.
But call me a cynic, @kshama2001 - and I'll own that label proudly. I'm friendly with an orangutan activist, I mean she's pretty much dedicated all her free time to that cause for 30ish years, and she has been to these countries and has horrible stories to tell.
It's just an unnecessary ingredient that helps with texture and shelf life and it is in everything. Don't get me started.
The woo button is right there next to the hug. Feel free.
The bold sentence gets closer to the reason that I think palm oil is so prevalent in foods: cooking at home from 'scratch' isn't as popular as it once was. I've never been in any kitchen that had a bottle of palm oil in the cupboard, and, I don't think I've ever once seen it for sale at the grocery store. (not to say it isn't out there for retail purchase, just that I've not run across it ).
I think the stuff adds an unpleasant aftertaste and I avoid it like the bubonic plague.
What is interesting is that there is an alternative to palm oil that is sustainably farmed in Brazil called Babassu oil. The babassu tree is a half sister to palm and coconut and the oil can be used interchangeably with either and is actually superior to both palm and coconut in personal care products because it is non pore clogging (comedogenic rating of 1 where both coconut and palm oil are rated 4 on a scale of 0-5). I make my own shampoo, conditioner, lotion, etc and stopped using palm oil decades ago (I need to avoid many of the preservatives you find in commercial personal care items because they release formaldehyde which I am allergic to)
Where do you get it? Is it something you order online?
Yes. I have several sources I buy from, depending on what else I need (I also use argan oil a lot and camellia seed oil in my conditioner)
https://www.camdengrey.com/essential-oils/Carrier-Oils/babassu-oil.html is the lowest price but you need a $25 minimum purchase to order from them. They do have a huge selection of products like essential oils, other carrier oils, and even bases that you just need to add a scent.
Other places are Mountain Rose Herbs, Brambleberry, and even Ebay, Etsy, or Amazon. If you just want to buy the oil. Ebay is often a good source.
Thank you!0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I don't believe for one minute there is any such thing as sustainably harvested palm oil. I don't think there is oversight or accountability, and it's really too late for the orangs who have been burned up with their families in their own homes. We get all wound up over California wildfires, and yet this is comparable to genocide.
But call me a cynic, @kshama2001 - and I'll own that label proudly. I'm friendly with an orangutan activist, I mean she's pretty much dedicated all her free time to that cause for 30ish years, and she has been to these countries and has horrible stories to tell.
It's just an unnecessary ingredient that helps with texture and shelf life and it is in everything. Don't get me started.
The woo button is right there next to the hug. Feel free.
The bold sentence gets closer to the reason that I think palm oil is so prevalent in foods: cooking at home from 'scratch' isn't as popular as it once was. I've never been in any kitchen that had a bottle of palm oil in the cupboard, and, I don't think I've ever once seen it for sale at the grocery store. (not to say it isn't out there for retail purchase, just that I've not run across it ).
I think the stuff adds an unpleasant aftertaste and I avoid it like the bubonic plague.
What is interesting is that there is an alternative to palm oil that is sustainably farmed in Brazil called Babassu oil. The babassu tree is a half sister to palm and coconut and the oil can be used interchangeably with either and is actually superior to both palm and coconut in personal care products because it is non pore clogging (comedogenic rating of 1 where both coconut and palm oil are rated 4 on a scale of 0-5). I make my own shampoo, conditioner, lotion, etc and stopped using palm oil decades ago (I need to avoid many of the preservatives you find in commercial personal care items because they release formaldehyde which I am allergic to)
Where do you get it? Is it something you order online?
Yes. I have several sources I buy from, depending on what else I need (I also use argan oil a lot and camellia seed oil in my conditioner)
https://www.camdengrey.com/essential-oils/Carrier-Oils/babassu-oil.html is the lowest price but you need a $25 minimum purchase to order from them. They do have a huge selection of products like essential oils, other carrier oils, and even bases that you just need to add a scent.
Other places are Mountain Rose Herbs, Brambleberry, and even Ebay, Etsy, or Amazon. If you just want to buy the oil. Ebay is often a good source.
Thank you!
You are welcome. I never had to deal with this until the big thing became to remove parabens from personal care products. The preservatives they use instead are the ones that release formaldehyde (the technical term is formaldehyde donors). They remove a potential carcinogen and replace it with something that breaks down into a known allergen that is also a potential carcinogen. Go figure. When i first found out about my allergy the only things I had to deal with was avoiding nail polish and pre-washing any clothing or sheets before using. Now, there are a lot of formaldehyde free nail polishes but I still have to wash all fabric items and read shampoo labels1 -
I'd love a good hand cream recipe if you have one. I already do oil cleansing for my face and use argan oil for my moisturizer there, so that's sorted. My hands are an issue. I have dyshidrotic eczema that pops up if I don't use something really emollient on them.0
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janejellyroll wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »I think the best solution is just baking all my own baked goods. I then control the ingredients.
It's hard though. I often say, "Sorry, orangs." But then I say sorry to a lot of animals on the regular. I feel like when we know better we really should do better.
"Woo" on this site is used when someone disagrees...I've posted about palm oil quite a bit on this site and I used to get pretty wound up about it - especially when the, "Milk is bad," people get going. All the synthesized nut milks have palm oil - same with the coffee creamers (like International Delight.) The argument seems to be it isn't good to be a milk cow, so drink soy milk or almond milk because it's nicer to animals.
Milk cows are not endangered. Jus' sayin'.
Have I mentioned it's in everything?
I'm not anti dairy, but you can make nut milk at home (I usually do, since I like it for some uses) and there are brands that do not have palm oil. One example is Elmhurst brand (I saw this when shopping last night, so looked), and another is New Barn. (I knew about New Barn since it's what I normally buy if too lazy to make it, as it's more like the kind I'd make at home, containing more of the almonds.)
The huge increase in demand for almonds and the nature of almond farming is another environmental problem, however.
Califia Farms is also palm oil free (at least the almond milks that I've purchased, maybe not their entire product line).
I just ran to read the label on my Califia Farms creamer after reading this thread, and I noticed that is palm oil free... It does contain coconut cream though--aren't coconuts trees in the palm family? What distinguishes palm palm from coconut palm? Does the farming of coconut palms destroy any happy little primates' habitats?0 -
Hi Mitch16. Check the bottom here.
https://www.ethicalconsumer.org/food-drink/shopping-guide/coconut-oil
Looks like Fair Trade is best to make sure farmers are paid properly and there are monoculture issues too.0
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