Keto didn't work
Replies
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ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »if you've been doing keto and your not losing weight, your doing it wrong.
Ket is all about extreme diet, ive done it before and if you do it right it gives amazing results. I've noticed however when you do not follow it strictly, it tends to lose a lot of it's effectiveness.
If you can post here what you ate during that time (honestly), and how much people can give advice
Along with what @janejellyroll said, if a person doesn't "follow it strictly" by going over on their carbs some days, they are likely to experience large water weight swings that can give the impression that it's not working. Actually, if a person is in a calorie deficit, they are still losing fat, but it is being masked by big shifts in water weight. Each gram of carbs holds something like 3g of water, so when you slash your carbs, you lose a lot of extra water, and when you have a sudden spike in carbs, you have a sudden spike in water. This is why many on a low-carb diet are under the impression that carbs make them fat- because the scale responds rather aggressively when they increase their carbs.
I find it very hard not to create a deficit when no longer eating carbs, i wouldn't know what i could eat in a day to exceed my calorie intake, but maybe that's just me. So in that sense i meant you must be doing it wrong, but maybe some people are able to exceed to calories and doing keto.
What i meant by not follow it strictly is as in, when doing a moderate diet you are allowed to cheat (once in a while) and still lose weight, cheating in keto, for me, that meant eating carbs. When eating too much carbs your body will go out of keto and it won't go back instantly again, that's a process of multiple days. Along with holding water this will badly impact results.6 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »if you've been doing keto and your not losing weight, your doing it wrong.
Ket is all about extreme diet, ive done it before and if you do it right it gives amazing results. I've noticed however when you do not follow it strictly, it tends to lose a lot of it's effectiveness.
If you can post here what you ate during that time (honestly), and how much people can give advice
Along with what @janejellyroll said, if a person doesn't "follow it strictly" by going over on their carbs some days, they are likely to experience large water weight swings that can give the impression that it's not working. Actually, if a person is in a calorie deficit, they are still losing fat, but it is being masked by big shifts in water weight. Each gram of carbs holds something like 3g of water, so when you slash your carbs, you lose a lot of extra water, and when you have a sudden spike in carbs, you have a sudden spike in water. This is why many on a low-carb diet are under the impression that carbs make them fat- because the scale responds rather aggressively when they increase their carbs.
I find it very hard not to create a deficit when no longer eating carbs, i wouldn't know what i could eat in a day to exceed my calorie intake, but maybe that's just me. So in that sense i meant you must be doing it wrong, but maybe some people are able to exceed to calories and doing keto.
What i meant by not follow it strictly is as in, when doing a moderate diet you are allowed to cheat (once in a while) and still lose weight, cheating in keto, for me, that meant eating carbs. When eating too much carbs your body will go out of keto and it won't go back instantly again, that's a process of multiple days. Along with holding water this will badly impact results.
But water weight has no impact on or relation to fat weight. It's just temporary 'noise.'6 -
but the water holding will discourage people who expect the advertised fast results and might drop out, so it does impact the fat loss on the long term
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ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »but the water holding will discourage people who expect the advertised fast results and might drop out, so it does impact the fat loss on the long term
So will having a few higher sodium meals, which isn't necessarily carb-related. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to protect people from their own ignorance.
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snickerscharlie wrote: ».
.
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What everyone needs to keep in mind *always* is that weight loss is determined solely by eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of the method anyone chooses to accomplish that.
Shortening quote to save space...
@snickerscharlie If only the body actually worked as simple as that. But it doesn't, and all doesn't work the same, and all can't do the same.
I have a friend who eats the same thing every day 5-6 times per day. He has no issues with it, as it takes away the element of having to log, and count calories. By doing this he knows exactly in both cals and macros how much he consumes in a day.
I however get bored of a food if I have it more than a couple of times a month. I just can't do it.
If everyone worked the same, and if the body was less complex than it is, this image and message you posted would be correct. But then again, no-one would have any issues EVER to lose weight. But that's not the truth now, is it?11 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »but the water holding will discourage people who expect the advertised fast results and might drop out, so it does impact the fat loss on the long term
To be fair, perhaps this applies to you. But women with hormonal cycles can have rather dramatic water weight losses and gains throughout the month, regardless of what diet they are on. A woman who gets discouraged by water weight fluctuations to the point she stops trying to lose weight, will never get to her goal weight, regardless of how she eats! Better to educate people about how their body works and let them pick the way of eating they are most comfortable with IMHO.9 -
snickerscharlie wrote: ».
.
.
What everyone needs to keep in mind *always* is that weight loss is determined solely by eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of the method anyone chooses to accomplish that.
Shortening quote to save space...
@snickerscharlie If only the body actually worked as simple as that. But it doesn't, and all doesn't work the same, and all can't do the same.
I have a friend who eats the same thing every day 5-6 times per day. He has no issues with it, as it takes away the element of having to log, and count calories. By doing this he knows exactly in both cals and macros how much he consumes in a day.
I however get bored of a food if I have it more than a couple of times a month. I just can't do it.
If everyone worked the same, and if the body was less complex than it is, this image and message you posted would be correct. But then again, no-one would have any issues EVER to lose weight. But that's not the truth now, is it?
The point of that chart isn't to say everyone should lose weight the same way. The point is that whatever diet helped you to lose weight, it did so by getting you into a calorie deficit. Some people will do better with LCHF, or vegetarian, or watching portion sizes, or DASH, or calorie counting, or keto, or whatever. But all of those strategies cause weight loss by getting you into a calorie deficit.10 -
snickerscharlie wrote: ».
.
.
What everyone needs to keep in mind *always* is that weight loss is determined solely by eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of the method anyone chooses to accomplish that.
Shortening quote to save space...
@snickerscharlie If only the body actually worked as simple as that. But it doesn't, and all doesn't work the same, and all can't do the same.
I have a friend who eats the same thing every day 5-6 times per day. He has no issues with it, as it takes away the element of having to log, and count calories. By doing this he knows exactly in both cals and macros how much he consumes in a day.
I however get bored of a food if I have it more than a couple of times a month. I just can't do it.
If everyone worked the same, and if the body was less complex than it is, this image and message you posted would be correct. But then again, no-one would have any issues EVER to lose weight. But that's not the truth now, is it?
To the bolded:
The body actually *does* work as simply as that! But that doesn't mean that achieving a consistent calorie deficit is simple or easy to do.
I'm with you - I would not be a happy camper eating the identical thing day in and day out. That would be hell-on-earth. And the truth is, if your friend slightly increased the volume of the things he eats every day, he would begin to gain weight, too.
Bottom line? If anyone is not losing weight - regardless of what they eat - the reason is simply because they're eating too much of it. 10 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »but the water holding will discourage people who expect the advertised fast results and might drop out, so it does impact the fat loss on the long term
By that logic, women who retain water during their cycle, anyone who over-indulges in sodium for a day, anyone who retains water for muscle repair after exercise might also drop out of any way of creating a deficit unless they understand how fat loss works, which the chart above demonstrates clearly.6 -
snickerscharlie wrote: ».
.
.
What everyone needs to keep in mind *always* is that weight loss is determined solely by eating less calories than you burn in a day, regardless of the method anyone chooses to accomplish that.
Shortening quote to save space...
@snickerscharlie If only the body actually worked as simple as that. But it doesn't, and all doesn't work the same, and all can't do the same.
I have a friend who eats the same thing every day 5-6 times per day. He has no issues with it, as it takes away the element of having to log, and count calories. By doing this he knows exactly in both cals and macros how much he consumes in a day.
I however get bored of a food if I have it more than a couple of times a month. I just can't do it.
If everyone worked the same, and if the body was less complex than it is, this image and message you posted would be correct. But then again, no-one would have any issues EVER to lose weight. But that's not the truth now, is it?
Nobody is saying keto isn't a valid option for people who prefer to eat that way. The push-back is for the claims that it will work as long as you do it right, and that it has an advantage over other ways of creating a deficit.
Earlier in the thread I posed this question:
If you [general you] believe that staying strictly in ketosis or strictly adhering to any other way of eating creates an advantage in fat loss, in the sense that energy balance (CICO) is not applicable to your diet, do you also believe that a person can maintain their weight in a consistent calorie deficit or surplus?4 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »if you've been doing keto and your not losing weight, your doing it wrong.
Ket is all about extreme diet, ive done it before and if you do it right it gives amazing results. I've noticed however when you do not follow it strictly, it tends to lose a lot of it's effectiveness.
If you can post here what you ate during that time (honestly), and how much people can give advice
Along with what @janejellyroll said, if a person doesn't "follow it strictly" by going over on their carbs some days, they are likely to experience large water weight swings that can give the impression that it's not working. Actually, if a person is in a calorie deficit, they are still losing fat, but it is being masked by big shifts in water weight. Each gram of carbs holds something like 3g of water, so when you slash your carbs, you lose a lot of extra water, and when you have a sudden spike in carbs, you have a sudden spike in water. This is why many on a low-carb diet are under the impression that carbs make them fat- because the scale responds rather aggressively when they increase their carbs.
I find it very hard not to create a deficit when no longer eating carbs, i wouldn't know what i could eat in a day to exceed my calorie intake, but maybe that's just me.
High fat foods, like nuts (although those will bring some carbs), olives, cheese, fattier meats, added fats like salad dressings, oil or butter used in cooking.
Mostly I think it's often a period of adjustment -- extreme dietary changes leave you not knowing what you can eat and so you eat way less (I went 100% plant-based for Lent one time and lost a bunch of weight without intending to, since I just cut out foods it was easy to overeat, but had I stayed plant-based I would have found alternatives and upped my calories again). I suspect the same thing happens if you are keto longer term for many.
Many people choose keto as a lifestyle and eat it at maintenance or when bulking, so for them clearly it doesn't mean weight loss.3 -
allisonhamaker wrote: »Keto worked great for me with ketomist spray that kept my hunger in check. I lost massive amounts in no time flat, about 40 pounds in two months, but as soon as I finished the diet the weight came back on over the next four months. So frustrating. This week I signed up to work with a naturopath who will look at many factors, my gut health, my dna with insulin resistance, etc. to help me find a permanent solution. I don't want to be on a diet for my whole life like my Mom. I want to understand my body better and know what patterns of eating and exercising are right for me to live long and healthy. I wish the same for you.
ask yourself this: for what reason do you expect that your body will keep off the weight once you stop dieting to lose the excess?
consider this: check out the posts in the forum "maintaining weight" for some tips on what to do once you have reached your goal.
good luck1 -
@paree0808 I haven't seen another post from you. There have been a lot of posts/opinions. What did you decide to do? Are you successfully losing weight?
For my update, I've lost 24 lb. in 11 weeks (16 lb. to go). Since the 2nd week of keto, I haven't experienced the arthritis pain I had before keto, which makes me wonder if excess carbs contributed to my pain (and farting, which quickly ended). For me, I think the keto WOE will be sustainable. Sometimes, I miss my cookies and ice cream, but the benefits outweigh the extra carbs I've given up. Occasionally, like at Thanksgiving, I had a few bites of my favorite sweets, so I don't completely deprive myself. I'll have a little more leeway when I reach maintenance and don't have to maintain a deficit, but I learned from my last weight-loss experience (not keto) that I will still need to diligently track what I eat.3 -
Nobody is saying keto isn't a valid option for people who prefer to eat that way. The push-back is for the claims that it will work as long as you do it right, and that it has an advantage over other ways of creating a deficit.
Earlier in the thread I posed this question:
If you [general you] believe that staying strictly in ketosis or strictly adhering to any other way of eating creates an advantage in fat loss, in the sense that energy balance (CICO) is not applicable to your diet, do you also believe that a person can maintain their weight in a consistent calorie deficit or surplus?
I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
I didn't eat much. I love snack items, whether they are lchf/keto or not. Whether I did only calorie count, low carb, keto, or IF, I didn't lose weight. Since I started in 2012 here on MFP, I've overall gained weight despite eating less than 1500 cals for the past 6 years.
Since I started to eat more, but less frequently I've finally gotten the scale to move down, even with strength training (I can't do cardio, it's just too boring). Now I eat about 1800 cals per day, which is about what I should to maintain weight... yet I'm losing. If I were to blindly believe what you're saying, it's physically impossible for me to lose weight without being in a deficit. I'm not at a deficit, yet I'm losing weight.
At the very fundamentals I DO agree with you. You'll never lose weight if you constantly eat at a surplus, but the what and how much is in my personal experience equally important as how frequent you eat.12 -
Nobody is saying keto isn't a valid option for people who prefer to eat that way. The push-back is for the claims that it will work as long as you do it right, and that it has an advantage over other ways of creating a deficit.
Earlier in the thread I posed this question:
If you [general you] believe that staying strictly in ketosis or strictly adhering to any other way of eating creates an advantage in fat loss, in the sense that energy balance (CICO) is not applicable to your diet, do you also believe that a person can maintain their weight in a consistent calorie deficit or surplus?
I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
I didn't eat much. I love snack items, whether they are lchf/keto or not. Whether I did only calorie count, low carb, keto, or IF, I didn't lose weight. Since I started in 2012 here on MFP, I've overall gained weight despite eating less than 1500 cals for the past 6 years.
Since I started to eat more, but less frequently I've finally gotten the scale to move down, even with strength training (I can't do cardio, it's just too boring). Now I eat about 1800 cals per day, which is about what I should to maintain weight... yet I'm losing. If I were to blindly believe what you're saying, it's physically impossible for me to lose weight without being in a deficit. I'm not at a deficit, yet I'm losing weight.
At the very fundamentals I DO agree with you. You'll never lose weight if you constantly eat at a surplus, but the what and how much is in my personal experience equally important as how frequent you eat.
If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
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I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
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If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.
Then please explain how 1800 calories is a deficit, but 1200-1400 calories isn't.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
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I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
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If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.
Then please explain how 1800 calories is a deficit, but 1200-1400 calories isn't.
If you were using a food scale for everything you ate, logging accurately and consistently every single day for all those years, and your activity level did not change in all those years, and there were no undiagnosed health conditions or medications involved, absolutely nothing changed except for your eating, then you are a scientific anomaly.
Sometimes a specific way of eating makes it easier for someone to log accurately and consistently. Sometimes a way of eating or a subtle change in lifestyle can make someone more or less active. Sometimes a medical condition can temporarily increase or decrease someone's TDEE. I mean no offense, as logging accurately is difficult for everyone, but without having access to your food logs my assumption would be you are logging better now and perhaps your enjoyment of your WOE or some other changes have caused you to burn more calories per day now then you did years ago. Obviously all we can do is guess, since all we have to go by is a very limited amount of anonymous info.11 -
janejellyroll wrote: »
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I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
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If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.
Then please explain how 1800 calories is a deficit, but 1200-1400 calories isn't.
You should donate yourself to science because you are defying the laws of thermodynamics then...I call BS...11 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »
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I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
...
If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.
Then please explain how 1800 calories is a deficit, but 1200-1400 calories isn't.
You should donate yourself to science because you are defying the laws of thermodynamics then...I call BS...
I wouldn't call BS, but there are a ton of variables. You see this often in the refeed threads.. and often increases as high as 1000 calories.
There certainly count be logging issues, binging issues, reductions in EE, less fidgeting, etc, on a low calories diet. Its highly feasible that the poster has more energy while on keto which allows for transient increases in EE. We don't know. Personally, i lost more on 2300 calories than i did on 1800 calories. When i go back to cutting, i plan on cycling, because i found it supports my lifting schedule better.
The point is, EE is a non static number. Doing a comparison is not exactly beneficial unless you compared two diets at the same calorie level.8 -
A ketogenic diet is supposed to put your body into a state of ketosis, where you are burning ketone bodies (made from your body's fat) instead of glucose. Your body is set up right now to burn glucose, not ketone bodies, so right now it is NOT set up to burn those. Your body will naturally re-orient itself to produce and burn ketone bodies, but it takes time -- sometimes a long time -- for the changeover to happen. Your body has to re-staff its digestive enzymes with the right kind for keto.
Think of it this way: up until now, your body has been a factory producing trucks. It's staffed with engineers (enzymes) who know how to make trucks (digest carbs). Now you're switching over to make, oh, say, dolls. Your auto engineers don't know how to do that. Now you have to go through the transition of training your auto engineers to be doll makers (burn ketone bodies). In diet terms, the research I have read says that it takes a MINIMUM of thirty days to make the switch from burning carbs to burning ketone bodies.
This means that you must eat a strictly keto diet for at least one month before you can expect to see a change. Not ten days, not two weeks, but at least thirty days. If you've been eating a relatively low-carb diet, this MIGHT happen sooner. Maybe. But if you've been eating a carb-heavy diet, it may take up to three months.
Transitioning to a keto diet also means you can't cheat. Ever. It would be like asking all those newly trained doll makers to go back to making trucks, which they've forgotten how to do. Your body will scramble to dump all the ketone-body digestive enzymes and re-load the old carbohydrate-digesting enzymes, which is like writing over a computer file. You've just wiped out ALL YOUR PROGRESS with one cookie. You have to start all over to get into ketosis, starting with a minimum of thirty days to transition back to ketosis.
Final suggestion: the only way to reliably tell that you have reached a state of ketosis is blood testing strips. Urine strips won't do the job, because they aren't that accurate. Spend the money and get the test kits, while keeping in mind that some people in ketosis never show it on a test strip.
Good luck.20 -
A ketogenic diet is supposed to put your body into a state of ketosis, where you are burning ketone bodies (made from your body's fat) instead of glucose. Your body is set up right now to burn glucose, not ketone bodies, so right now it is NOT set up to burn those. Your body will naturally re-orient itself to produce and burn ketone bodies, but it takes time -- sometimes a long time -- for the changeover to happen. Your body has to re-staff its digestive enzymes with the right kind for keto.
Think of it this way: up until now, your body has been a factory producing trucks. It's staffed with engineers (enzymes) who know how to make trucks (digest carbs). Now you're switching over to make, oh, say, dolls. Your auto engineers don't know how to do that. Now you have to go through the transition of training your auto engineers to be doll makers (burn ketone bodies). In diet terms, the research I have read says that it takes a MINIMUM of thirty days to make the switch from burning carbs to burning ketone bodies.
This means that you must eat a strictly keto diet for at least one month before you can expect to see a change. Not ten days, not two weeks, but at least thirty days. If you've been eating a relatively low-carb diet, this MIGHT happen sooner. Maybe. But if you've been eating a carb-heavy diet, it may take up to three months.
Transitioning to a keto diet also means you can't cheat. Ever. It would be like asking all those newly trained doll makers to go back to making trucks, which they've forgotten how to do. Your body will scramble to dump all the ketone-body digestive enzymes and re-load the old carbohydrate-digesting enzymes, which is like writing over a computer file. You've just wiped out ALL YOUR PROGRESS with one cookie. You have to start all over to get into ketosis, starting with a minimum of thirty days to transition back to ketosis.
Final suggestion: the only way to reliably tell that you have reached a state of ketosis is blood testing strips. Urine strips won't do the job, because they aren't that accurate. Spend the money and get the test kits, while keeping in mind that some people in ketosis never show it on a test strip.
Good luck.
I can't imagine trying to stick to a diet where all my progress is wiped out by one almighty cookie. I can see how people would read something like this along with being told that they have to do keto to lose weight, and then feel utterly hopeless. It's unfortunate and a downright shame that people fall for this kind of nonsense.18 -
The thing is that ANY diet will work because the math all adds up to CALORIES.
1g of protein equals 4 calories
1g of carbs equals 4 calories
1g of fat equals 9 calories
1g of alcohol equals 7 calories.
We all need .9 to 1.2g of protein per lean body mass no matter what the diet style.
We all need a minimum amount of healthy fat to function properly.
And so we can play with fat and carbs up to a calorie level.
If the fat and protein are too high for fat loss on keto, then of course you won't lose weight. The same applies to any other diet.7 -
@californiagirl2012 is right. It's all about balancing your energy balance. Whatever macros you use are actually not that important. There's nothing wrong with carbs, neither is anything wrong with protein or fat. Ideally you'd like to have a large-ish chunk of the calories you have available to be protein to preserve/build muscle, but there is no one big bad macro that will make you fat.
Keto can work, but cutting out carbs twhilestill eating an amount of fats which results in a calorie surplus will make you gain weight...not lose it.5 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »but the water holding will discourage people who expect the advertised fast results and might drop out, so it does impact the fat loss on the long term
To be fair, perhaps this applies to you. But women with hormonal cycles can have rather dramatic water weight losses and gains throughout the month, regardless of what diet they are on. A woman who gets discouraged by water weight fluctuations to the point she stops trying to lose weight, will never get to her goal weight, regardless of how she eats! Better to educate people about how their body works and let them pick the way of eating they are most comfortable with IMHO.
I've lost 25kg doing keto, and i have had periods where i did not visibly lose any weight on the scale. I can see through this as i realize i'm still doing it right so the results on the scale will also follow, if not today then tomorrow and so on. But sadly when i see my mother trying to lose weight, this does apply. "Oh my god i gained 0.25 pounds and i did my diet perfectly yesterday", or even worse "Oh my god I lost weight and i cheated yesterday". I tried to explain it multiple times and althought she says she understands, it never seems to really sink in. And as a result she cannot see it through.
So thank you for thinking you know me but it doesn't apply to me 0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I can't imagine trying to stick to a diet where all my progress is wiped out by one almighty cookie. I can see how people would read something like this along with being told that they have to do keto to lose weight, and then feel utterly hopeless. It's unfortunate and a downright shame that people fall for this kind of nonsense.
Sadly he is right tho. Ketogenic diet is not only about creating a deficit, it's about making your body create ketones so it burns fat instead of carbs (since it gets too little carbs). This is a process of multiple days where your body transitions to burning fat. Eating 1 day too much carbs will however put your body out of ketogenic state very fast. And bringing it to ketogenic again will take a few days again. So while you may still lose weight cause you are still eating at a deficit, it negates a lot of the extra stuff by being in ketogenic state. So you are only utilizing the ketogenic diet partly.
I always read it was like 3-4 days before your body transitioned to keto, and not 30 tho9 -
californiagirl2012 wrote: »The thing is that ANY diet will work because the math all adds up to CALORIES.
1g of protein equals 4 calories
1g of carbs equals 4 calories
1g of fat equals 9 calories
1g of alcohol equals 7 calories.
We all need .9 to 1.2g of protein per lean body mass no matter what the diet style.
We all need a minimum amount of healthy fat to function properly.
And so we can play with fat and carbs up to a calorie level.
If the fat and protein are too high for fat loss on keto, then of course you won't lose weight. The same applies to any other diet.
These numbers right here are the key to healthy nutrient and calorie intake.
Start by tracking everything every day and weighing yourself every day. Do that for 2 weeks then take an average of your calories and weight for those two weeks. If you've gained weight reduce daily calorie intake by 500, if you've maintained at least you know your maintenance calories and if you've lost weight continue at that level if you want to lose more weight. Keep tracking and weighing yourself daily. I have a small spreadsheet that I can just plug the numbers into and it works out my average calories and weight for the two weeks. Once you know the number of calories then you can start working on the macros. Work out your protein first, then your fats @ 25% of total calories and the rest is carbs. Drink at least a litre of water per 1000 calories, preferably more, make sure you get around 30g of fibre and start from there.
Watch out for metabolic adaptation, ie the longer you stay at a set calorie level the more your body gets used to that level and adapts. This can lead to further unhealthy calorie level drops and ultimate malnutrition as you chase the weight loss. Give yourself a refeed day once a week when you perhaps take in 1000 more calories than normal, your body will thank you for it. If you plateau and stop losing weight try a reverse diet where you actually increase your calorie intake for a period to avoid the metabolic adaptation. Stick with whatever plan you end up on and don't hop around when things don't look like they're working. These things take time.
There is lots of great nutritional advice out there. If you're on Instagram try following these people:
@cody.boomboom
@drbeckycampbell
@evan_demarco (fish oil man)
@stanefferding
@al_kavadlo
It's also worth bearing in mind that your BMR is responsible for burning 90% of your total daily calories so if you can raise that and keep it high you're on to a winner. Daily cardio of the level that most of us can manage has very little effect on your total daily calorie burn. Aim to build muscle as this burns more calories. A basic strength training regime will help, with all the usual caveats about taking it easy if you're not used to strength training etc.
I speak from personal experience having lost 10kg over the course of a year and kept it off for a further year (95% of people who lose weight put it, and more, back on in less than three years!). I've also altered my body composition from 25+% body fat down to less than 15% and built more lean muscle. I've done this by prioritising strength training 3-4 times per week and tracking calories.
Ultimately, it's all about finding what works for you. Someone asked me what sort of exercise they should do to lose weight? My reply was the only thing you need to exercise is restraint!
Last comment from me...don't track on Christmas Day, just eat and enjoy yourself. It doesn't take one day to make progress so you won't undo all your progress in one day either.
Good luck everyone.
Dave
2 -
Keto doesn't help but a healthy meal plan does. And a little exercise, if possible.3
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janejellyroll wrote: »
...
I believe the what is just as important as when. I've been on MFP and been at a 1200-1400cals per day (with logging either here on MFP or spreadsheets, or sticking to same portions/foods prepped meals) and I've gained... in my case it was not helping to eat only less than what I burned. In my case it was also When I ate.
...
If you're losing weight, you're in a deficit.
What we think a deficit "should" be for us, isn't always what it is. Some people find they have to adjust their calorie goal upward because they are using more calories than they initially thought. Others find they have to adjust it downward because they use fewer.
The fact that it can be difficult for some people to initially estimate how many calories their body needs (and therefore, what a deficit is for them) doesn't mean that weight loss isn't created by a calorie deficit. It just means there are some variables involved (how we measure what we eat, how we measure how many calories we're using each day) and some people need a bit of trial and error to get it figured out.
If you're losing weight at 1,800 calories a day, then 1,800 calories is a deficit for you.
Then please explain how 1800 calories is a deficit, but 1200-1400 calories isn't.
It could be logging errors, it could be a change in activity (many people unconsciously move more when they're eating enough), it could be a combination of the two.
Our issues in accurately estimating calories in or out doesn't invalidate how energy works.5 -
This means that you must eat a strictly keto diet for at least one month before you can expect to see a change. Not ten days, not two weeks, but at least thirty days. If you've been eating a relatively low-carb diet, this MIGHT happen sooner. Maybe. But if you've been eating a carb-heavy diet, it may take up to three months.
This doesn't mean you won't lose in the meantime, though -- among other things, you'd get the water weight drop. It's more about exercise and energy (and maybe the keto flu).
When I tried keto I avoided the flu by following the advice to up my salt, but could tell my energy was lagging when running up stairs (I used to live in a fourth floor walk-up) or when working out. That problem went away in about 2 weeks. (I was already low carb, around 100-120 g, before.)Transitioning to a keto diet also means you can't cheat. Ever. It would be like asking all those newly trained doll makers to go back to making trucks, which they've forgotten how to do. Your body will scramble to dump all the ketone-body digestive enzymes and re-load the old carbohydrate-digesting enzymes, which is like writing over a computer file. You've just wiped out ALL YOUR PROGRESS with one cookie. You have to start all over to get into ketosis, starting with a minimum of thirty days to transition back to ketosis.
I don't think this is true at all.
First, it has nothing to do with weight loss.
Second, one you are in ketosis, it's not that hard to get back in upon briefly going out, and you don't lose the adaptation and so suffer keto flu/loss of energy anyway. This was my experience, and many people in the low carb group didn't worry about being in or out, and many seemed to bounce in and out.
Here's a rant from a keto/low carb advocate on the topic: http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html
This is also interesting: https://peterattiamd.com/actually-eat-part-iii-circa-q1-2014/4 -
ThierryVerhaegen wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I can't imagine trying to stick to a diet where all my progress is wiped out by one almighty cookie. I can see how people would read something like this along with being told that they have to do keto to lose weight, and then feel utterly hopeless. It's unfortunate and a downright shame that people fall for this kind of nonsense.
Sadly he is right tho. Ketogenic diet is not only about creating a deficit, it's about making your body create ketones so it burns fat instead of carbs (since it gets too little carbs).
There seems to be some myth that this does not happen when one is not doing keto. It does.
Take someone on MFP's default macros of 50% carbs, 25% protein, 25% fat. Let's say their TDEE is 2100 but they are eating 1600. That's about 200 g of carbs, 100 g of protein, and around 44-45 g of fat.
They need about 500 calories more than what they eat to fuel themselves.
Where does this come from? They burn body fat.
You burn more fat on keto -- because you eat more fat and burn what you eat. But there's no good reason to believe you burn more body fat.
That doesn't mean low carb isn't valuable as a tool for those who prefer eating that way or feel more satisfied doing so, of course.6
This discussion has been closed.
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