Improve VO2Max
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I think we scared the poor OP away.3
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There are other things to consider, I lived in Raleigh NC and my V02 max was 46. I moved to Black Mountain NC and it immediately dropped to 39. The difference? Raleigh is around 320 feet elevation, Black Mountain 2550 where I live and goes up to over 3000 where I run sometimes. I have been getting 300 or more active minutes per week and I have my V02 max back up to 46. For me its just a measure of my fitness.1
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Blue = low intensity (65% MaxHR). Green = moderate intensity (75% MaxHR). Yellow = hard intensity (85% MaxHR).
I exercise in zones. 30 min per day. 2 days in yellow (resistance), 2 days in green (cardio), and 3 days in blue (yoga).
My VO2Max is 32. As a 61 year old male this is considered "moderate". I'd like to get to 41 which is "elite" for my age and sex.
Will the above exericise program get me there?
No. If you want "elite" fitness, it requires a huge training volume. Half an hour per day twice a week isn't going to make you competitive.
Resistance training and yoga are great for your overall health but will not contribute to an already fit person's VO2max increasing. Maximal oxygen volume is about your heart and lungs.
Try 3-4 hours per day of Nordic skiing. 80% of your workouts moderate, 20% very intense. Avoid the "noman's land" of zone 3 or you'll plateau before you reach your goal.
... and the other half of the equation is your weight. If you want to hit 41 ml/kg then reducing kgs can help get you there.
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »My recreational goal is to increase my VO2Max number.
That's fine. But why? In the grand scheme of things VO2Max is pretty meaningless as a metric. If yoou focus on Resting Heart Rate reduction you'll see more value.
fwiw if you're wanting to improve your VO2Max I'd start with perhaps 5 CV sessions per week, aiming for all of them to get to 60 minutes of steady state effort. Once you've done that start to add in tempo sessions, once per week, vice one of the steady state. Once you've done that for about six months then add in a High Intensity Session once per week. After six weeks of that you should have improved your VO2Max.
You'll want to book in half a dozen lab sessions in there, to actually measure your MHR, LTHR, Aerobic threshold and VO2Max.
This...0 -
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Thank you for all your excellent answers.
I was HOPING that I wouldn't have to put in so much CARDIO work/time to improve my VO2Max. I'm wrong.
I'm going to DRASTICALLY reduce my goal. I want to see if my cardio program will get me from VO2Max from 32 (moderate) to 33-36 (good).
I've acomplished my MAIN goal of achieving and maintaining good blood sugar control with diet and exercise. I feel good and look good.
My exercise priority these days is yoga. So three days. I put in my (recommended minimum) 2 days a week of resistance training. Which leaves 2 days for cardio.
I’m not sure the message is really coming through.
Improving VO2max requires a significant sustained training volume over a period of months (maybe years).
Your current schedule does not meet the minimum recommended time for maintaining health (150 minutes moderate cardio per week). 60 minutes per week is not going to facilitate improvement in VO2MAX.
That said-I don’t really see the point. Your VO2max isn’t the end all of fitness. Having the highest VO2max doesn’t mean you automatically win the race.
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twatson4936 wrote: »There are other things to consider, I lived in Raleigh NC and my V02 max was 46. I moved to Black Mountain NC and it immediately dropped to 39. The difference? Raleigh is around 320 feet elevation, Black Mountain 2550 where I live and goes up to over 3000 where I run stometimes. I have been getting 300 or more active minutes per week and I have my V02 max back up to 46. For me its just a measure of my fitness.
That's an interesting theory. I live at a little over 5100' and hike up to 7000'.
Any thoughts on VO2 max calculators such as: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/vo2max-calculator.shtml0 -
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Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).0 -
You can get very close to your MHR by running a 5k with a chest strap monitor. Run it hard and near the end, crank that "kitten" up to eleven and see how high you can get your heart rate. And even with that, you could probably add a few more beats.2
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Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live. 3 -
I read (and posted) an article recently that compared different fitness watch based estimates with laboratory testing. They found the watches were pretty close, even though they used different algorithms to get there. If anything, the watches were conservative, if I remember correctly.1
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Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live.
Just wanted to add if you do find a Concept2 rowing machine and do their VO2 Max estimator, that's been a subject of intense debate on the C2 forums. Despite some of our best attempts at telling the company this info, they seem to have "Well Trained" and "Untrained" reversed. If you're untrained (limited experience rowing or even relatively new), your 2K times will suffer from inefficiencies, so you'd be untrained. If you have a solid stroke and great form, you'd be trained and your times would be logically better with the same amount of effort.
If I put my 2K times into C2's VO2 estimator, they come out in reverse of what they should. As an trained rower (I've been working on form for five years now and have been told, even by outdoor coaches, that my form is solid), my VO2 Max estimates (solely based on 2K times) are higher on the C2 website than if I entered it as an Untrained rower. This makes no sense. It should be the other way around.1 -
Also, keep in mind that while yoga is great for flexibility and overall strength, not all forms are vigorous enough to count towards the 150 minute per week exercise recommendation. Remember that those exercise recommendations are for the amount of time that you need to spend at an elevated effort. If you participate in an activity that is mostly dead easy but only occasionally becomes a challenge, then you'll need to assess whether you really should count all of that time as exercise.0
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I wanted to add something I haven’t seen posted yet. You can look at the lab profile of an athlete and guess their sport. Cyclists and XC skiers will have a higher VO2max. Runners will have a higher lactate threshold. These markers indicate how to train more than a measurement of health. A high VO2max skier will win when snow conditions are good, but stronger/more technical skiers will more likely take the podium when conditions are poor. At the elite level, it hurts to be perfectly well rounded (have you SEEN the arms on those guys in the Tour de France? They are NOT pumping heavy barbells!). However, well rounded fitness is ideal for the rest of us.
Frankly, I like OP’s routine- it does it all. It sounds like you are just looking for a way to measure improvements and was hoping VO2max would do it. Like me, you are data motivated. I can tell because you are already working in zones. If I were the OP, I would keep the routine, but push a little harder and a little longer and start documenting performance. Yogis have great balance, flexibility, and resilience to stress. Track that and you will see improvements. Track how much you can lift and you’ll see improvements if you challenge yourself with the resistance training every time. When doing cardio, alternate being pushing hard and cruising each time. Track how fast and far you can go each week, and I bet you my fancy charts you’ll see improvements there too.
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If that set of new challenges fits into your life, while maintaining good overall life balance, those sound like really excellent next steps.
Speaking from the perspective of someone of similar age (I'm 63), it sounds like you are not giving in to "the tyranny of low expectations" that too many succumb to, as we age (to steal another MFPers phrae out of context).
Kudos.
Keep challenging yourself!
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Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live.
I actually might think about doing this with my coach watching over me some evening. I have a Garmin chest HRM somewhere. Or maybe one of the coxes. There's one in particular who would be perfect and lord knows I'd need someone's voice in my ear.
I am 100% certain that I'll live my broadly, but given that currently sick with an impressively persistent chest cold (going to call my dr again Monday unless there's significant improvement over the weekend), this month is so not the month to do it.3 -
MikePfirrman wrote: »Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live.
Just wanted to add if you do find a Concept2 rowing machine and do their VO2 Max estimator, that's been a subject of intense debate on the C2 forums. Despite some of our best attempts at telling the company this info, they seem to have "Well Trained" and "Untrained" reversed. If you're untrained (limited experience rowing or even relatively new), your 2K times will suffer from inefficiencies, so you'd be untrained. If you have a solid stroke and great form, you'd be trained and your times would be logically better with the same amount of effort.
If I put my 2K times into C2's VO2 estimator, they come out in reverse of what they should. As an trained rower (I've been working on form for five years now and have been told, even by outdoor coaches, that my form is solid), my VO2 Max estimates (solely based on 2K times) are higher on the C2 website than if I entered it as an Untrained rower. This makes no sense. It should be the other way around.
Thanks for this - anything I'd be doing would be on a Concept2.2 -
Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live.
I actually might think about doing this with my coach watching over me some evening. I have a Garmin chest HRM somewhere. Or maybe one of the coxes. There's one in particular who would be perfect and lord knows I'd need someone's voice in my ear.
I am 100% certain that I'll live my broadly, but given that currently sick with an impressively persistent chest cold (going to call my dr again Monday unless there's significant improvement over the weekend), this month is so not the month to do it.
Def wait until you're well. Doubly so if it's a chest/head congestion thing. You're going to want 100% of your lungs. (I always get exercise-induced coughing for most of the rest of the day, after doing something like this, even in the best of health. Not everyone does. ).
Coxes are particularly good at this kind of evil project. 0 -
Given that my measurements are accurate, my reduced exercise program has REDUCED my VO2Max. Before falling off the wagon and then getting back on last month but doing 30 min of cardio per week instead of the 4 hours I did before.
I was looking thru my exercise log on Polar Beat. On Aug 4 my VO2Max was 39 (very good). Then it went to 35 (good) on Sept 9th.
I fell of the wagon for a while. On Dec 12th I was at 32 (moderate). Every week after that I've been at 32 with no improvement.
In conclusion, if one does the minimum one can be in good shape. To be in better shape one must do more volume and intensity.
Which measurements were correct? Did you say you used the 220-age to find your maximum HR? That's definitely not accurate for most people. Polar, while a nice company, isn't likely going to give you correct VO2 max measurements if only because the an accurate measurement is going to come from a laboratory a watch and wrist or chest based HR measurements.
I mean let's be honest, even 4 hours of cardio a week wouldn't get you to an elite level for your age. This thread is now making me want to get my max HR and VO2max tested...though the place I would go doesn't have a rowing machine in their lab (just a stationary bike and a treadmill).
You (with a helper, and a chest belt HRM with separate monitor or recording device, and an erg) can run a rowing machine HRmax testing protocol developed by a reasonably sound source. Google is your friend.
Don't do it if you're not medically 100% certain you'll live.
I actually might think about doing this with my coach watching over me some evening. I have a Garmin chest HRM somewhere. Or maybe one of the coxes. There's one in particular who would be perfect and lord knows I'd need someone's voice in my ear.
I am 100% certain that I'll live my broadly, but given that currently sick with an impressively persistent chest cold (going to call my dr again Monday unless there's significant improvement over the weekend), this month is so not the month to do it.
Def wait until you're well. Doubly so if it's a chest/head congestion thing. You're going to want 100% of your lungs. (I always get exercise-induced coughing for most of the rest of the day, after doing something like this, even in the best of health. Not everyone does. ).
Coxes are particularly good at this kind of evil project.
Yeah, I took the entire week off from erg'ing because I'm so done with whatever this festering virus is. The first time around the doctor thought was that it was just bronchitis. I got back to 90ish percent for 4 or 5 days and then last Friday I started getting worse. I am going out tomorrow, but I'm 95% sure I'm not contagious and days on the water right now are more about technique for me than how hard I can push myself.1 -
When I was a fun runner, I could care less about what my VO2 Max was, never understood it. All I wanted was to run a faster 5k or 10k and to be able to complete all rounds 8 rounds of a 400 meters repeats workout. That's how I got better, training faster to run faster. If you can do that, I'm sure a higher VO2 Max will follow.0
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Great info!0
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I’ve been able to move mine up bit by bit every year. I get tested annually in a fitness lab at the university where I work.
I do 20 minutes of interval training 1-2 times per week. Along with all the other stuff that doesn’t really affect it.0 -
My recent "veganization" of my LCHF diet has bumped my blood sugars. Basically I added a cup of beans every day. The obvious solution is to cut or eliminate the beans. But I'm going to try to exercise it away. The fiber benefit of the beans is worth fighting for.
Are you timing your beans around your exercise? Probably having beans immediately before your exercise session would minimize the impact on your blood sugar. My mom is type II and lucky enough to have the freestyle libre continuous glucose monitor, so we do all sorts of fun experiments without her having to do a million finger sticks. Exercise immediately following "too many carbs" is a miracle!
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Here’s a good article from Runner’s World:
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a26066029/increase-vo2-max/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_rnw&utm_medium=email&date=012919&src=nl&utm_campaign=15838474&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers
It explains how to increase your V02 max and how it benefits you0
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