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Is counting calories all wrong?
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snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »Dr Fung pushes intermittent fasting, which naturally reduces your calories anyway. Most of these diets where "Calories don't matter" still restrict your calories without you realizing it, so that's kind of when I accepted it was all calories in, calories out.
Here's the thing, though. Intermittent Fasting - in and of itself - does *not* naturally reduce your calories. It is entirely possible to overeat in whatever your non-fasting window might be.
I know because I've done it. Been doing IF for literally decades. I've gained weight doing it, lost weight doing it and maintained weight doing it, too. The timing of when you eat is irrelevant.
Tl;dr? You are absolutely correct in that it *is* all about calories in, calories out.
So true. I have seen people around the forums swearing up and down that calories don’t matter with IF; the make it sound like IF is magic. Personally, I’m glad it’s NOT magic. I would rather know exactly how and why I’m losing weight, i.e. I’m in a calorie deficit or I’m not.
I think if you’re someone who tends to binge at a certain time of day (I know a lot of night time snackers and have been one myself at certain times of my life) and you prevent yourself from eating during that time, it could be beneficial, but because you’re restricting calories, not because you’re doing something magical.
🤔 This seems like one of those threads where we’re going to get a lot of first-time posters spewing woo. Brb, grabbing my 🍿.4 -
witchaywoman81 wrote: »This seems like one of those threads where we’re going to get a lot of first-time posters spewing woo. Brb, grabbing my 🍿.
Dr. Fung told me I could reset my confused metabolism by adding 1 tablespoon of coconut oil to my banana cleanse. Lets do this!
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Fatty_Nuff wrote: »witchaywoman81 wrote: »This seems like one of those threads where we’re going to get a lot of first-time posters spewing woo. Brb, grabbing my 🍿.
Dr. Fung told me I could reset my confused metabolism by adding 1 tablespoon of coconut oil to my banana cleanse. Lets do this!
Don’t forget the ACV! 😉
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witchaywoman81 wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »Dr Fung pushes intermittent fasting, which naturally reduces your calories anyway. Most of these diets where "Calories don't matter" still restrict your calories without you realizing it, so that's kind of when I accepted it was all calories in, calories out.
Here's the thing, though. Intermittent Fasting - in and of itself - does *not* naturally reduce your calories. It is entirely possible to overeat in whatever your non-fasting window might be.
I know because I've done it. Been doing IF for literally decades. I've gained weight doing it, lost weight doing it and maintained weight doing it, too. The timing of when you eat is irrelevant.
Tl;dr? You are absolutely correct in that it *is* all about calories in, calories out.
So true. I have seen people around the forums swearing up and down that calories don’t matter with IF; the make it sound like IF is magic. Personally, I’m glad it’s NOT magic. I would rather know exactly how and why I’m losing weight, i.e. I’m in a calorie deficit or I’m not.
I think if you’re someone who tends to binge at a certain time of day (I know a lot of night time snackers and have been one myself at certain times of my life) and you prevent yourself from eating during that time, it could be beneficial, but because you’re restricting calories, not because you’re doing something magical.
🤔 This seems like one of those threads where we’re going to get a lot of first-time posters spewing woo. Brb, grabbing my 🍿.
Yes; and they usually go inactive after about 2 months, likely when their "magic pill" has stopped producing water weight losses, and they have not learned how to manage their intake using calories.14 -
Fung is a quack.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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It honestly saddens me when people come on here hopped up on the misinformation he shills because I remember what it's like to want to hear something that sounds like a magical solution to make everything easy.
Fung sets up a false narrative in order to rope believers into an us vs. them mentality that sets them apart and has them almost embrace a sort of victimhood. It's craven, when you really think about it.20 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »Dr Fung pushes intermittent fasting, which naturally reduces your calories anyway. Most of these diets where "Calories don't matter" still restrict your calories without you realizing it, so that's kind of when I accepted it was all calories in, calories out.
Here's the thing, though. Intermittent Fasting - in and of itself - does *not* naturally reduce your calories. It is entirely possible to overeat in whatever your non-fasting window might be.
I know because I've done it. Been doing IF for literally decades. I've gained weight doing it, lost weight doing it and maintained weight doing it, too. The timing of when you eat is irrelevant.
Tl;dr? You are absolutely correct in that it *is* all about calories in, calories out.
Hah yeah super true. Whenever I read about why people like it, they almost always say they love that it helps them to control their calories haha.
Well, it actually can help some people control their calories, if it means they are limiting the amount of time in a day that they are eating. But what and how much they eat when they *are* eating still matters.
This IF, sounds like a challenge to me, how many calories can I eat in my feeding window......is there an app to track my PR?
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Well. YMMV...but I've been using MFP to track my calorie intake for about 6-7 months. Keeping at 1200 calories and not exercising more than yard work or hauling in enough logs to keep my woodstove going [COPD & 72 Y-O] I've lost more than 30 pounds in 6 months. My "chubby" nephew started working out and eating tons of protein at at age 19, and he quickly got slim and buff, and at 23 he has maintained. Following his lead, I added lots of protein and water to my diet this summer. The only eliminations were the dreaded "white carbs" and alcohol [
] . When at my target weight I added wine back to my calorie count. The struggle to control the alcohol has not been pretty, but I'm still at just over my target weight.
Long been a believer that when one cuts back quickly and dramatically on the calorie intake, the metabolism slows down because your body thinks the mastodons have died, and you are in danger of starvation....s l ow d o w n a n d l i v e.
Cannot take the fad diets with a grain of salt because there are SOOOO many of them and the extra sodium contributes to weight gain....Like. "fast every other day, and only eat kale on the other days"....
@Fatty_Nuff ...have you tried instead smoothing the coconut oil on your face after washing up in the morning ?? Less calories and a much prettier complexion...
Thanks to @wine gelato for your inspiration on "another thread" !!
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azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.9 -
azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.15 -
I think it's less that people are more gullible and more that people are given more opportunity to expose their gullibility to distant acquaintances.azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
For example, on and off over the last 15 years I have known people at work who knew exactly what they were doing and were extraordinarily competent at their jobs. When I came into contact with them, they were on their home ground of knowledge as it were, and I assumed they were like that in all areas of their life. Stuff like 'would you ever take a cardiologist's dietary advice over that of a dietician?' just never came up. I naturally assumed they wouldn't.
Now we have social media and I have these people on FB, and their shares tell me (and all the other distant acquaintances) that they would follow Dr Oz's advice, along with every other stupid diet trick out there. I imagine they were always like that, but pre-FB I'd never have known.
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Ok, with this logic, let's stop believing in gravity & see how that works out...(><)0
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azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
This is interesting. I agree with this, but I also concur with @HeliumIsNoble.
“Back in the day,” before the internet, news could generally be trusted as fact. If someone sitting behind a desk on tv said it, or it was written in the newspaper, you could pretty much rest assured you were getting “the truth.” There were exceptions, of course, like those tabloids you can pick up in the checkout aisle of the grocery, but it was pretty much universally known that those were not to be relied upon for facts.
Today, we have access to more information than ever. Much of it is complete nonsense, but it’s packaged in a way those of us who were around before the internet are familiar with. Programs that look like the news programs we knew, articles that are written with the authority of a seasoned journalist, etc. And if you believe something, regardless of how far-fetched it might be, you can find somebody on tv or on the Internet who agrees with you.
This effect has certainly muddied the waters in terms of what’s perceived as “fact.” Were there always some folks prone to gullibility? Of course, and the Internet is the perfect breeding ground for that.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »Dr Fung pushes intermittent fasting, which naturally reduces your calories anyway. Most of these diets where "Calories don't matter" still restrict your calories without you realizing it, so that's kind of when I accepted it was all calories in, calories out.
Here's the thing, though. Intermittent Fasting - in and of itself - does *not* naturally reduce your calories. It is entirely possible to overeat in whatever your non-fasting window might be.
I know because I've done it. Been doing IF for literally decades. I've gained weight doing it, lost weight doing it and maintained weight doing it, too. The timing of when you eat is irrelevant.
Tl;dr? You are absolutely correct in that it *is* all about calories in, calories out.
Hah yeah super true. Whenever I read about why people like it, they almost always say they love that it helps them to control their calories haha.
Well, it actually can help some people control their calories, if it means they are limiting the amount of time in a day that they are eating. But what and how much they eat when they *are* eating still matters.
This IF, sounds like a challenge to me, how many calories can I eat in my feeding window......is there an app to track my PR?
The answer is: A helluva lot!
Take, for example, people that actually train for and participate in eating contests. There's plenty of videos on YouTube - if you have the stomach for it.
Whether it's pie or hotdogs, the amount of calories these people can consume in an incredibly brief time period is astonishing. And since they fast beforehand, they are, technically at least, doing IF. I do wonder how many of them, um, retain that food afterwards, but my point is it's pretty easy to overeat, even in a very limited time window.
Yes, that's obviously an extreme example.
For a more reasonable one, you just have to look here in the forums to find 'normal' people who failed to lose weight on IF because they were under the false impression that fasting had somehow given them magical calorie-buffing superpowers, and that what and how much they consumed in their eating window didn't matter.
Tl;dr? I think they may have confused IF to stand for Intermittent Feasting instead. 5 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
I think it's less that people are more gullible and more that people are given more opportunity to expose their gullibility to distant acquaintances.azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
For example, on and off over the last 15 years I have known people at work who knew exactly what they were doing and were extraordinarily competent at their jobs. When I came into contact with them, they were on their home ground of knowledge as it were, and I assumed they were like that in all areas of their life. Stuff like 'would you ever take a cardiologist's dietary advice over that of a dietician?' just never came up. I naturally assumed they wouldn't.
Now we have social media and I have these people on FB, and their shares tell me (and all the other distant acquaintances) that they would follow Dr Oz's advice, along with every other stupid diet trick out there. I imagine they were always like that, but pre-FB I'd never have known.
I think this is true, plus the internet makes all the scams available to everyone - assertively serves them up, in fact.
Back in the day, one usually had to actively go looking for them, or at least subscribe to magazines with dodgy ads in them. Some of those dodgy ad companies were around for years, so someone fell for them, but it was a secret between them and their mailbox.8 -
It was totally liberating to me when I realized that all I had to do was burn more calories than I eat to lose weight. Everything else is now just noise. I am completely in control of my diet.
Amen and good night sista!! When that button clicked in my head after decades "diets to follow" I reached my goal and eat ALL the foods!
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Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.8 -
Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.6 -
There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen. It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn). When the body can't break it all down, it gets stored as fat. As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently. This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.38 -
There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen. It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn). When the body can't break it all down, it gets stored as fat. As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently. This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.
You just proved all of the points that have been made. A calorie deficit results in weight loss, and a good portion of that was water weight. Theres still nothing magical about Keto and Fung is still a joke.
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