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Is counting calories all wrong?
Replies
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I think it's less that people are more gullible and more that people are given more opportunity to expose their gullibility to distant acquaintances.azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
For example, on and off over the last 15 years I have known people at work who knew exactly what they were doing and were extraordinarily competent at their jobs. When I came into contact with them, they were on their home ground of knowledge as it were, and I assumed they were like that in all areas of their life. Stuff like 'would you ever take a cardiologist's dietary advice over that of a dietician?' just never came up. I naturally assumed they wouldn't.
Now we have social media and I have these people on FB, and their shares tell me (and all the other distant acquaintances) that they would follow Dr Oz's advice, along with every other stupid diet trick out there. I imagine they were always like that, but pre-FB I'd never have known.
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Ok, with this logic, let's stop believing in gravity & see how that works out...(><)0
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azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
This is interesting. I agree with this, but I also concur with @HeliumIsNoble.
“Back in the day,” before the internet, news could generally be trusted as fact. If someone sitting behind a desk on tv said it, or it was written in the newspaper, you could pretty much rest assured you were getting “the truth.” There were exceptions, of course, like those tabloids you can pick up in the checkout aisle of the grocery, but it was pretty much universally known that those were not to be relied upon for facts.
Today, we have access to more information than ever. Much of it is complete nonsense, but it’s packaged in a way those of us who were around before the internet are familiar with. Programs that look like the news programs we knew, articles that are written with the authority of a seasoned journalist, etc. And if you believe something, regardless of how far-fetched it might be, you can find somebody on tv or on the Internet who agrees with you.
This effect has certainly muddied the waters in terms of what’s perceived as “fact.” Were there always some folks prone to gullibility? Of course, and the Internet is the perfect breeding ground for that.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »whatalazyidiot wrote: »Dr Fung pushes intermittent fasting, which naturally reduces your calories anyway. Most of these diets where "Calories don't matter" still restrict your calories without you realizing it, so that's kind of when I accepted it was all calories in, calories out.
Here's the thing, though. Intermittent Fasting - in and of itself - does *not* naturally reduce your calories. It is entirely possible to overeat in whatever your non-fasting window might be.
I know because I've done it. Been doing IF for literally decades. I've gained weight doing it, lost weight doing it and maintained weight doing it, too. The timing of when you eat is irrelevant.
Tl;dr? You are absolutely correct in that it *is* all about calories in, calories out.
Hah yeah super true. Whenever I read about why people like it, they almost always say they love that it helps them to control their calories haha.
Well, it actually can help some people control their calories, if it means they are limiting the amount of time in a day that they are eating. But what and how much they eat when they *are* eating still matters.
This IF, sounds like a challenge to me, how many calories can I eat in my feeding window......is there an app to track my PR?
The answer is: A helluva lot!
Take, for example, people that actually train for and participate in eating contests. There's plenty of videos on YouTube - if you have the stomach for it.
Whether it's pie or hotdogs, the amount of calories these people can consume in an incredibly brief time period is astonishing. And since they fast beforehand, they are, technically at least, doing IF. I do wonder how many of them, um, retain that food afterwards, but my point is it's pretty easy to overeat, even in a very limited time window.
Yes, that's obviously an extreme example.
For a more reasonable one, you just have to look here in the forums to find 'normal' people who failed to lose weight on IF because they were under the false impression that fasting had somehow given them magical calorie-buffing superpowers, and that what and how much they consumed in their eating window didn't matter.
Tl;dr? I think they may have confused IF to stand for Intermittent Feasting instead. 5 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
I think it's less that people are more gullible and more that people are given more opportunity to expose their gullibility to distant acquaintances.azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
For example, on and off over the last 15 years I have known people at work who knew exactly what they were doing and were extraordinarily competent at their jobs. When I came into contact with them, they were on their home ground of knowledge as it were, and I assumed they were like that in all areas of their life. Stuff like 'would you ever take a cardiologist's dietary advice over that of a dietician?' just never came up. I naturally assumed they wouldn't.
Now we have social media and I have these people on FB, and their shares tell me (and all the other distant acquaintances) that they would follow Dr Oz's advice, along with every other stupid diet trick out there. I imagine they were always like that, but pre-FB I'd never have known.
I think this is true, plus the internet makes all the scams available to everyone - assertively serves them up, in fact.
Back in the day, one usually had to actively go looking for them, or at least subscribe to magazines with dodgy ads in them. Some of those dodgy ad companies were around for years, so someone fell for them, but it was a secret between them and their mailbox.8 -
It was totally liberating to me when I realized that all I had to do was burn more calories than I eat to lose weight. Everything else is now just noise. I am completely in control of my diet.
Amen and good night sista!! When that button clicked in my head after decades "diets to follow" I reached my goal and eat ALL the foods!
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Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.8 -
Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.6 -
There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen. It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn). When the body can't break it all down, it gets stored as fat. As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently. This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.38 -
There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen. It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn). When the body can't break it all down, it gets stored as fat. As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently. This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.
You just proved all of the points that have been made. A calorie deficit results in weight loss, and a good portion of that was water weight. Theres still nothing magical about Keto and Fung is still a joke.
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There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen. It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn). When the body can't break it all down, it gets stored as fat. As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently. This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.
Because when you have T2D, you have a harder time processing those foods properly. But if you don't have it, you don't have that issue. You're confusing cause and effect.21 -
I think that might be what I hate most about them.snickerscharlie wrote: »Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.
These scam artists don't just rob people of their money, they rob them of their self-esteem. After a few plans like that, people are left feeling utterly hopeless and incapable of real change.
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Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.
If you were truly eating only 1050 calories each day (YIKES), you were in a calorie deficit. A potentially dangerous one, but a calorie deficit nonetheless. And the 10 pounds you lost was probably mostly water weight. It’s impossible to burn so much fat in such a short timeframe.
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
I think that might be what I hate most about them.snickerscharlie wrote: »Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.
These scam artists don't just rob people of their money, they rob them of their self-esteem. After a few plans like that, people are left feeling utterly hopeless and incapable of real change.
Yup. "I'm a loser, so I might as well give up and just stay fat."6 -
witchaywoman81 wrote: »
Try it. I went keto for 7 days (1050 calories a day) and lost a whopping 10lbs. I won't do it again though because I've been able to adjust my intake to a healthier level and have added more exercise.
If you were truly eating only 1050 calories each day (YIKES), you were in a calorie deficit. A potentially dangerous one, but a calorie deficit nonetheless. And the 10 pounds you lost was probably mostly water weight. It’s impossible to burn so much fat in such a short timeframe.
Having just completed 7 days of <= 20 g carbs, I can assure you that some 1050 calorie days happen and the dude is stuffed, uninterested in further food. Once I discovered that could happen, I paid closer heed to getting some leafy greens early in my day, so now I scramble some into my breakfast eggs. I learned from the low-carb group that it's far more common than I'd have expected.
Oh, and I lost 8.8 lb in those 7 days. The water whoosh happened Monday and Tuesday. The rest of the week was losses of 0.2 lb per day until today, when I logged a loss of nearly 3 lb. I have no idea why. I've been eating lots of salt each day because I've experienced hyponatremic leg cramps before and I don't want to repeat that. During keto, one loses water and electrolytes, so we have to increase our salt intake. I've done so extravagantly.5 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.
I'm going to see if he will read this thread. I'm keeping my expectations in check though lol.1 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »
I think that might be what I hate most about them.snickerscharlie wrote: »Being a bit willfully obtuse can also play into it. One co-worker lost 85lbs over the past 2.5 years and is well on his way to being ripped and well muscled. When he hit a couple of walls he had to research and adjust accordlingly.
I lost the 19lbs I wanted to at that time the same way.
Another co-worker hired a "nutritionist".
Day one: Two oranges
Day Two:Apples
And so on. Soon he was having dizzy spells, feeling weak etc, but because he found her on the web, with plenty of recommendations, and in spite of seeing our progress and well being, he simply would not listen, nothing, nada.
He lost his 15lbs because of course he did, he was close to starving. He has since put about 30lbs back on, but he's still convinced it's his fault for doing her plan wrong. He will not listen.
I don't get it. Besides, I would rather be 15lbs heavy than as miserable as he was.
Preach!
And, to be fair, a lot of these diet 'plans' are set up to imply that the person's inability to sustain it is the reason for their failure, rather than that the plan was unsustainable from Day One.
These scam artists don't just rob people of their money, they rob them of their self-esteem. After a few plans like that, people are left feeling utterly hopeless and incapable of real change.
You've just described him to a 'T'. I don't think he even hits the gym any more.3 -
There is some truth to what he says about the body burning glycogen.
Yeah, the body does burn glycogen and fat. If you don't eat more than a tiny amount of carbs the body burns more fat, but it's the same fat you eat, not more body fat. How much body fat gets burned or added depends on calories eaten. If you are thinking the body doesn't store fat you eat as fat if calories are excess, you are confused.It is true that the more glycogen builds up in your system is because your body has to produce enormous amounts of insulin to break it down (burn).
No, glycogen gets stored in the muscles (this is one reason some carb load before athletic events) and is helped. Glucose also can be stored as fat, but only if glycogen stores are all full and rarely--it's easier to store fat as fat, so your body will do that preferentially and use the glycogen as fuel, but sure, if you are overeating enough it will turn the glucose into fat and store it. But none of this really matters if you control calorie balance.As we age our body has a much harder time producing enough insulin to break the blood sugars down because of (usually) poor eating habits.
Not really. What happens is that obesity and genetics and age and inactivity can all affect insulin sensitivity, and that means the body has a harder time putting the glucose where it is supposed to go and so increases more and more until it can, which may affect hunger and energy and isn't good for you. Let it go long enough, and the body may stop being able to create insulin entirely. People typically lose weight when that happens, since they can't effectively use glucose (which, btw, is easily created from starches, so your focus on sugars alone is odd).Cutting simple carbs/sugars is the first thing you are told to do when you are diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes.
If you are eating tons, sure. More typically, limit to around 150, eat with fiber and protein, eat a healthy diet overall.
Also, not everyone eats tons of carbs that aren't balanced with protein and fiber already. IMO, if you just eat a healthy diet you will be doing this already. Keto would not be an improvement. Not that there's anything wrong with keto IF you do it in a healthy way, but I think it makes it harder to get in what I personally consider a healthy diet, and doesn't necessarily help with learning about nutrition and what you can use to sustain maintenance calories.
That said, some really struggle on other ways of eating and find keto easy. Like I said in the keto thread, I think one reason is that there's less to think about, it puts some temptations automatically off limits, and it still feels decadent. I think for most these benefits go away over time as you get bored of the way of eating, but obviously some find it works for them longer term.If you can curb your carb intake before your body becomes insulin resistant then you start burning blood sugar more efficiently.
Nope, but eating a healthful diet and not being overweight or inactive are good ideas. Number 1 and 2 things you can do to avoid IR is the same as the number 1 and 2 things most can to to minimize health risk (other than not smoking, not drinking to excess, etc.) -- stay a healthy weight and be active.This is the concept behind Keto diets...no carbs means your body has to burn fat stores for energy because there are no carbs present or not enough.
This has no particular benefit in and of itself.18 -
I don't understand why people poo-poo counting calories when it very clearly works.8
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azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".12 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
Back in the day we didn't have internet distractions. I think everyone I knew, self included, always equated fitness with a workout, whatever form that workout took...
I kind of miss the old days 0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
They had much more effective cough medicine back in the day though...
14 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
They had much more effective cough medicine back in the day though...
You may still be coughing, but you won't know it!12 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
No because they weren't a thing where I live. The conmen were more likely selling cars or double glazing.
Sorry but I disagree.
I'm sure the huge volume of data people are exposed to now contributes but there's an almost child-like naivety which is now widespread rather than unusual. There's always been gullible people being taken advantage of course but it's the suspension of critical thinking just because something appears on a screen. It seems to lend a completely undeserved authority.
Back in the 80's there was a tabloid newspaper (The Sunday Sport) which was famous for their ridiculous stories such as WW2 bombers being found on the moon or a London Bus being found in the Antarctic - don't recall anyone being other than amused. Now I wonder if people would simply pass it on to their social media contacts...
My Dad used to describe the TV as "The Idiot's Lantern" for the way people would just watch it slack-jawed and just let the words and picture wash over them without any real thought process going on. Sure he would switch the phrase to the internet and social media in general now.
Don't think it helps that science is so poorly taught now. People simply don't learn the fundamental principles that would equip them to dismiss a lot of the nonsense pedalled in the weight loss arena.
Jumpstart your metabolism, different kinds of calories.... etc. etc.
7 -
I will be so happy when the diet pendulum swings back to the middle toward the sanity of portion control and calorie counting. . Even if it swings to the other side and the low fat craze started again. It would be better than this keto madness. Even as we speak, a keto thread every five minutes.6
-
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
No because they weren't a thing where I live. The conmen were more likely selling cars or double glazing.
Sorry but I disagree.
I'm sure the huge volume of data people are exposed to now contributes but there's an almost child-like naivety which is now widespread rather than unusual. There's always been gullible people being taken advantage of course but it's the suspension of critical thinking just because something appears on a screen. It seems to lend a completely undeserved authority.
Back in the 80's there was a tabloid newspaper (The Sunday Sport) which was famous for their ridiculous stories such as WW2 bombers being found on the moon or a London Bus being found in the Antarctic - don't recall anyone being other than amused. Now I wonder if people would simply pass it on to their social media contacts...
My Dad used to describe the TV as "The Idiot's Lantern" for the way people would just watch it slack-jawed and just let the words and picture wash over them without any real thought process going on. Sure he would switch the phrase to the internet and social media in general now.
Don't think it helps that science is so poorly taught now. People simply don't learn the fundamental principles that would equip them to dismiss a lot of the nonsense pedalled in the weight loss arena.
Jumpstart your metabolism, different kinds of calories.... etc. etc.
I'm with Tacklewasher on this one. People have always been gullible. The difference is exposure, both to scams, and to publicity about people falling for them.
Look up Mark Twain's "Petrified Man" and especially aftermath (only one of his little fun hoaxes).
Consider "War of the Worlds" and how many believed it despite announcements during the broadcast that said it was a radio drama, not a news story. (My dad, a farm boy, boarded with a family in the city so he could work a factory job during the week, and head home to the farm on weekends. During the intial live broadcast, the family he lived with were all up and ready to run from the aliens . . . he couldn't have been more astonished.)
I could go on.
There's a reason P.T. Barnum said . . . well you know. But there's no evidence he actually did say it.
(This way to the Egress!! ==>)7 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »azzeazsaleh5429 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »This will not end well. Fung is a quack but many here subscribe to his theories. He’s very polarizing around these forums.
Whether you choose to count calories or not, calories, and ultimately the energy balance that they contribute to, is what drives weight loss, gain and maintenance. You can be in a calorie deficit without counting calories and many who successfully lose weight following some of Fung’s suggestions are doing just that.
For many of us using MFP, accurately logging and managing our calorie intake - regarding of the foods you choose to eat, is the best way to ensure we are in a calorie deficit or, in my case now, eating at maintenance calories having met my weight loss goals and in maintenance for several years.
But buckle up this is going to be a bumpy thread.
I definitely will be keeping the gameplan i just find it odd that a doctor would put that out there
Ours would be a much better world in general, if education - even relevant education - kept people from being either sorely mistaken, or cynical/predatory. Sadly, education provides no such assured preventive.
Old person's grumble coming up....
The internet seems to have weakened people's common sense. I remember the simple advice of from my dear old Mum "if it sounds to good to be true.....".
Being gullible used to be a sign of not being very bright but just because something is in an email or a video on YouTube seems to hook intelligent people too and circumvent their natural cynicism.
Did you know that the word gullible has been dropped from the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary?
Vetting sources also seems to have gone out of fashion.
If you asked someone who they would go to for dietary advice people wouldn't normally say a nephrologist, a cardiologist or a chiropractor and yet people are sucked in because someone sends them a link or they see rave reviews on social media.
Ummm.
Remember "Snake Oil Salesmen"?
People have been scammed for centuries, the internet just makes it easier to do the scamming so we see more of it. But I don't really think people are more gullible, just exposed to more. Just like it's easier to do "mail fraud" these days when you don't need to use actual mail.
I really don't think folks were brighter or had more common sense "back in the day".
No because they weren't a thing where I live. The conmen were more likely selling cars or double glazing.
Sorry but I disagree.
I'm sure the huge volume of data people are exposed to now contributes but there's an almost child-like naivety which is now widespread rather than unusual. There's always been gullible people being taken advantage of course but it's the suspension of critical thinking just because something appears on a screen. It seems to lend a completely undeserved authority.
Back in the 80's there was a tabloid newspaper (The Sunday Sport) which was famous for their ridiculous stories such as WW2 bombers being found on the moon or a London Bus being found in the Antarctic - don't recall anyone being other than amused. Now I wonder if people would simply pass it on to their social media contacts...
My Dad used to describe the TV as "The Idiot's Lantern" for the way people would just watch it slack-jawed and just let the words and picture wash over them without any real thought process going on. Sure he would switch the phrase to the internet and social media in general now.
Don't think it helps that science is so poorly taught now. People simply don't learn the fundamental principles that would equip them to dismiss a lot of the nonsense pedalled in the weight loss arena.
Jumpstart your metabolism, different kinds of calories.... etc. etc.
I'm with Tacklewasher on this one. People have always been gullible. The difference is exposure, both to scams, and to publicity about people falling for them.
Look up Mark Twain's "Petrified Man" and especially aftermath (only one of his little fun hoaxes).
Consider "War of the Worlds" and how many believed it despite announcements during the broadcast that said it was a radio drama, not a news story. (My dad, a farm boy, boarded with a family in the city so he could work a factory job during the week, and head home to the farm on weekends. During the intial live broadcast, the family he lived with were all up and ready to run from the aliens . . . he couldn't have been more astonished.)
I could go on.
There's a reason P.T. Barnum said . . . well you know. But there's no evidence he actually did say it.
(This way to the Egress!! ==>)
Some people have always been gullible, it's not a new phenomenon and giving examples where some people were dopey in the past doesn't refute my opinion that more people are gullible and unthinking now.
You are of course entitled to your own opinion.
2 -
I wonder how people stayed healthy before counting calories? Hmmm...8
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