5k training to break 25 minutes

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  • z4oslo
    z4oslo Posts: 229 Member
    Fartlek is just a freeform interval session.

    A quick rundown from Runnersworld:
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20852351/whats-the-difference-between-fartlek-tempo-and-interval-runs/

    I would use some time to read up on the science behind the 80-20 training. A good start is here:
    http://8020endurance.com/resources/



  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    z4oslo wrote: »
    Fartlek is just a freeform interval session.

    A quick rundown from Runnersworld:
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20852351/whats-the-difference-between-fartlek-tempo-and-interval-runs/

    I would use some time to read up on the science behind the 80-20 training. A good start is here:
    http://8020endurance.com/resources/



    Thank you for the info
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    I read up on the science of the 80-20 plan. I also tried it for a week. In a word - Boring. I like to push myself. I enjoy a good long slow run on the perfect day which there might be two a year I can find time to run on. This is not the plan for me. My watch has a recovery mode. As long as I wait the recommended recovery period and work some rest days in and listen to my body I think I'll be fine. So far it has me feeling energized for my next run and I'm feeling great. Less than 6 weeks now. I am also moving to a new house at this time so it is hampering my running a bit. When you burn 1100 calories moving boxes up and down stairs it doesn't leave much in the tank for a run.
  • Vladimirnapkin
    Vladimirnapkin Posts: 299 Member
    I don't see a problem with the plan, but if you can run 400s at that place, you can probably run sub 23 ( possibly a lot sub). If your mile time is a much slower than your 400 meter pace in training, it tells me you are resting too long between intervals. Try not to rest longer than it took to run the interval. Also, I would add a couple of sessions with longer intervals. 800 & 1000s.

    200s and 400s to sharpen, but 800s and 1000s to build race capacity. I wouldn't even worry about tempo runs. (at this point) 5k is almost all about VO2max.

    If you are not a beginner, I would also try to build my quality to 5 or 6K. (I've had coaches say 6 to 8k, and I always did better at 8k, per session. )
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    edited February 2019
    twatson4936 wrote: »
    I read up on the science of the 80-20 plan. I also tried it for a week. In a word - Boring. I like to push myself. I enjoy a good long slow run on the perfect day which there might be two a year I can find time to run on. This is not the plan for me. My watch has a recovery mode. As long as I wait the recommended recovery period and work some rest days in and listen to my body I think I'll be fine. So far it has me feeling energized for my next run and I'm feeling great. Less than 6 weeks now. I am also moving to a new house at this time so it is hampering my running a bit. When you burn 1100 calories moving boxes up and down stairs it doesn't leave much in the tank for a run.

    If you like doing what you're doing then stick to it. But the 20% on 80/20 training isn't boring. If you're not dying and wanting to quit, you're likely not pushing hard enough on the 20%. Most people that don't understand that don't like it that much.

    I agree with Vlad above on the two sessions. Very similar to my approach. But the two days after your hard days, if the hard days were hard enough, you should be loving a nice slower workout. Yeah, one day (or two if you workout six days a week) you'll be holding back the horsepower and it will seem counterproductive. But over and over again, nothing but mid-level workouts will not get you as fast as you could be.

    I know guys that track their HR on the slow days and monitor distance travelled for those days at the same HR. They dig really deep into the metrics to stay interested. What I do (Indoor rowing) is much easier for that stuff, I'll admit, than running. I know plenty of OCD rowers that try to match the exact splits each time so the workout looks perfect. Concentrating on little things can go a long way.
  • Silent_Soliloquy
    Silent_Soliloquy Posts: 237 Member
    My slow/recovery days I get deep into heart rate and breathing and I always see garmin improve my vo2 max on those days. Its a good mini-goal.

    The underpinning of running is using the least amount of energy possible. A confluence of tiny minutia that add up to success when multiplied out over thousands of steps.

    The key is to use as little energy as possible; I find the slow days perfect for fine-tuning that.
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    Silent_Soliloquy wrote: »
    My slow/recovery days I get deep into heart rate and breathing and I always see garmin improve my vo2 max on those days. Its a good mini-goal.

    I've just started on the 80/20 running, and have been taking it pretty easy, but my VO2Max dropped from mid 40's to 37 from the last few runs. 2 of which were half (in the snow).
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    I love hitting it hard and its working. I did intervals yesterday, 5 minutes warm up at 12 min pace, then 6x2 min at 6:40 min pace with 1 min recovery at 12 min pace. My max heart rate only hit 172 in the last interval. Today is rest day but I can't wait to hit it again tomorrow. I love running and so far I just can't get enough of it. I am actually going to ramp this up a bit more. This interval session only burned 278 calories according to my Garmin watch. I also did this interval first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. If what you are all saying is true then maybe I'm just not going hard enough on my hard days(the 20%). I cannnot remember the last time I ran and wanted to quit. I just want to go faster. less than 3 weeks until my race
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    Tempo run this morning. 5 minute warmup at 12 min pace, then 7:48 pace for 15 minutes. My heart rate was holding steady at 155. I increased the pace to 7:42 and my heart rate climbed to 161. I ran at this pace for 3 minutes then I increased the pace to 7:30. My heart rate maxed at 173 at the 25 minute mark. I then cooled down for 6 minutes at 12 min pace. This was on a treadmill with 1% incline on an empty stomach. Felt great and I could have pushed harder. My race will have more hills but I will also be fully fueled so I think I just might break 25.
  • DX2JX2
    DX2JX2 Posts: 1,921 Member
    twatson4936 wrote: »
    Tempo run this morning. 5 minute warmup at 12 min pace, then 7:48 pace for 15 minutes. My heart rate was holding steady at 155. I increased the pace to 7:42 and my heart rate climbed to 161. I ran at this pace for 3 minutes then I increased the pace to 7:30. My heart rate maxed at 173 at the 25 minute mark. I then cooled down for 6 minutes at 12 min pace. This was on a treadmill with 1% incline on an empty stomach. Felt great and I could have pushed harder. My race will have more hills but I will also be fully fueled so I think I just might break 25.

    You've basically already achieved it? If you can maintain 7:48 for 15 minutes and then still increase the pace beyond that I really don't think you'll have a problem with a 7:45 min/mile 5K?

    That said, if you've only run this pace on a treadmill thus far take it outside immediately. Wind, weather, stress, and (especially) hills will make a massive difference to your time.

    Remember that 1 mile up hill and 1 mile downhill will not feel the same as two miles flat.
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    DX2JX2 wrote: »
    twatson4936 wrote: »
    Tempo run this morning. 5 minute warmup at 12 min pace, then 7:48 pace for 15 minutes. My heart rate was holding steady at 155. I increased the pace to 7:42 and my heart rate climbed to 161. I ran at this pace for 3 minutes then I increased the pace to 7:30. My heart rate maxed at 173 at the 25 minute mark. I then cooled down for 6 minutes at 12 min pace. This was on a treadmill with 1% incline on an empty stomach. Felt great and I could have pushed harder. My race will have more hills but I will also be fully fueled so I think I just might break 25.

    You've basically already achieved it? If you can maintain 7:48 for 15 minutes and then still increase the pace beyond that I really don't think you'll have a problem with a 7:45 min/mile 5K?

    That said, if you've only run this pace on a treadmill thus far take it outside immediately. Wind, weather, stress, and (especially) hills will make a massive difference to your time.

    Remember that 1 mile up hill and 1 mile downhill will not feel the same as two miles flat.

    I somewhat agree, but then I read this article:
    https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a26859968/treadmill-versus-overground-running-study/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_rnw&utm_medium=email&date=032319&src=nl&utm_campaign=16359217

    I also have to consider I ran at a constant 1% incline and on an empty stomach. It is also 68 degrees where my treadmill sits, Hopefully April 6th will not be that warm.

    It is warming here finally, so this weekend will be outside, but no intervals. I will just have to wait and see what I can do outside fully fueled. Less than two weeks now.
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    Intervals today, treadmill 1% incline. 10x1 min, first one at 6:00 min pace the other 9 at 6:40 pace with 1 min recovery at 12:00 min pace. 3 more workouts until taper week
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    One week until race day. I start tapering on Monday.
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    Started taper week by resting yesterday. Today I did 10x30 second intervals at 6:40 pace with the last two at 6:00 pace. 0ne minute recovery between intervals at 12:00 pace. 4 days until race day
  • Silent_Soliloquy
    Silent_Soliloquy Posts: 237 Member
    ^^ im super excited to hear how the race goes
  • MikePfirrman
    MikePfirrman Posts: 3,307 Member
    Congrats on your new PB, that's awesome!
  • Silent_Soliloquy
    Silent_Soliloquy Posts: 237 Member
    Dude you destroyed it!

    Ive definitely entered into the incremental phase of improvements, so it gives me more respect for the push you did to get there.
  • twatson4936
    twatson4936 Posts: 121 Member
    Thanks MikePfirman and Silent_Soliloquy and everyone else that gave me feedback on my journy. I've started training for the May 19th race. I'm adding a hill workout this time and an additional week of reduced running in the middle of the 6 week plan. I've dialed up the intensity so I really feel like quitting towards the end on several of my weekly runs. Today I did 8 x 90 second 5% hills at 8:40 pace and 3 minutes of recovery, heart rate back down into the 120s before starting the next hill. It was all I could do to complete the last hill. My slow runs I am ensuring to keep my HR in zone 2. I only need to drop 15 seconds to get below 24 minutes. I'm also incorporating Running Worlds Run360 workout into my training in hopes of staying injury free.
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