I am soooo confused
deedee3732
Posts: 52 Member
Is it really just CICO or is keto the answer? Vegan? Low carb? So many conflicting viewpoints and everyone has extremely convincing arguments.
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Replies
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For fat loss (or weight loss over the long term), it's just about the energy equation (CICO).4
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For weight loss, calories are the most important factor. I recommend starting with where you are and making small changes that you can live with. Log whatever you are eating now for a week or two, then review those logs. Where are the bulk of your calories coming from? Is it something you can reduce or substitute for something else? Are you missing anything nutritionally (some things are not required on food labels so the data is incomplete, potassium is a big one for this)? Do you need more protein, or fat? How can you increase that?
The best diet is the one you will stick with. For some that is keto, others it is low fat. Vegan is an ethical positioning rather than a diet. If you would like to reduce your consumption of animal products, then focus on that. In my opinion, I wouldn't consider drastic changes in your way of eating without considering if it is sustainable for you. Others will have differing opinions though.7 -
What are your goals? Is it weight loss? Do you have any medical conditions that dietary changes may impact? What foods fill you up? What foods do you enjoy?3
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you can use any diet rule, lets take low carb for example. I do low carb, i do a maximum of 75-100g of carbs a day (I couldn't do keto!) but i still apply the CICO on top of that. calories in calories out still account for the whole diet. you often find people might go on a low carb diet thinking 'the carbs in this are 0/so low I can have so much of this and not get fat! totally untrue. you will get fat, because, calories. ultimately, CICO is something needing to be applied to all diets, regardless of the rule, whether its high fat or low cab or Keto, or whatever.
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Food is energy--your body burns it. That's CICO. Counting calories can show you how much you're putting in, then you adjust to lose, maintain, or gain weight. If you need to lose, you have a choice of how to cut your calories. The most common are keto, vegan, calorie counting, IF,..... All of these can be effective. You have to decide what fits your lifestyle and health needs. Best of luck.1
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While most of what people here are saying has truths to it, losing weight is so much more complicated that calories in /calories out. I used to believe that too. And until I turned 50, it seemed to work for me. Then pre-menopause hit, and no matter what I did, I was GAINING weight. Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me. I ate mostly Mediterranean diet/no red meat all my life. Clean eating. As soon as my hormones started going wonky a couple yrs ago, all bets were off. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING helped. I run half marathons at least once per year. 12 weeks of training and wouldn't lose a single pound.
I got married 2 years ago, and wanted to look good for my wedding. I was carrying about 10 pounds more than I wanted. So I went to a nutritionist 2 months bf the wedding, frustrated bc I was training again for a half marathon, and wasn't seeing weight loss, in fact i was gaining weight. We decided to do Keto. He suggested I not run the half mara, and to just walk and do weights. So I pulled back on my working out (calories out) and followed keto with his help. I lost the 10 pounds in time for the wedding and felt and looked great! PS - my skin never looked better than when i was on Keto either.
Then, I went off keto and back to just clean eating. The weight creeped back up. In Jan 2019, I was 12-15 pds more than I wanted to be. Instead of Keto, I decided to start recording my food again (1200/day), and commit to working out 5 days/week (cardio and weights + yoga). From Jan - Mar, I lost nothing. NOTHING! My body did not want to give up the weight ( likely bc of hormones).
Last week, I was so fed up that I decided to go back to Keto and record everything (food, energy, exercise, measurements, weight and ketone levels throughout the day). Thus far, its been 5 days. I've lost 5 pounds and 1/2 inch in my waist, hips and thighs (where I tend to hold weight). I've been in mild-optimal ketosis since day 2 (0.7 -1.4 mmol). It's working great. Perhaps Keto is not for the average person, but if you struggle a lot with losing weight, are pre/post menopausal, or have certain diseases that have been shown to be helped by Keto, I'd do it. See a Nutritionist for a few visits to get the right information (lots is crap on the interwebs). Good luck!21 -
No matter what diet you follow for losing weight, losing weight results from consuming less calories than your body burns. ALWAYS.6
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While most of what people here are saying has truths to it, losing weight is so much more complicated that calories in /calories out. I used to believe that too. And until I turned 50, it seemed to work for me. Then pre-menopause hit, and no matter what I did, I was GAINING weight. Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me. I ate mostly Mediterranean diet/no red meat all my life. Clean eating. As soon as my hormones started going wonky a couple yrs ago, all bets were off. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING helped. I run half marathons at least once per year. 12 weeks of training and wouldn't lose a single pound.
I got married 2 years ago, and wanted to look good for my wedding. I was carrying about 10 pounds more than I wanted. So I went to a nutritionist 2 months bf the wedding, frustrated bc I was training again for a half marathon, and wasn't seeing weight loss, in fact i was gaining weight. We decided to do Keto. He suggested I not run the half mara, and to just walk and do weights. So I pulled back on my working out (calories out) and followed keto with his help. I lost the 10 pounds in time for the wedding and felt and looked great! PS - my skin never looked better than when i was on Keto either.
Then, I went off keto and back to just clean eating. The weight creeped back up. In Jan 2019, I was 12-15 pds more than I wanted to be. Instead of Keto, I decided to start recording my food again (1200/day), and commit to working out 5 days/week (cardio and weights + yoga). From Jan - Mar, I lost nothing. NOTHING! My body did not want to give up the weight ( likely bc of hormones).
Last week, I was so fed up that I decided to go back to Keto and record everything (food, energy, exercise, measurements, weight and ketone levels throughout the day). Thus far, its been 5 days. I've lost 5 pounds and 1/2 inch in my waist, hips and thighs (where I tend to hold weight). I've been in mild-optimal ketosis since day 2 (0.7 -1.4 mmol). It's working great. Perhaps Keto is not for the average person, but if you struggle a lot with losing weight, are pre/post menopausal, or have certain diseases that have been shown to be helped by Keto, I'd do it. See a Nutritionist for a few visits to get the right information (lots is crap on the interwebs). Good luck!
You lost five pounds in water weight. That's what happens in the "induction" phase.
I also lost 7 pounds in the first week of weight loss - eating lower calories but not in ketosis.
Keto is a restriction plan. I'm all about eating fruit, vegetables (including potatoes,) grains, dairy, nuts, legumes, oils and lean protein. I lost my 70+ pounds twelve years ago and I'm still keeping it off by knowing the Calories. Not by restriction of nutrient dense foods.14 -
So much to know!!!! Yikes! I’m 50! Never dieted, much. But the pounds keep creep up. I want to lose 50lbs by Halloween. If I have an autoimmune issue should I see a nutritionist! Are they really that helpful? I’m cynical.0
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Stolen but seen posted many, many times:
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Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me.
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deedee3732 wrote: »Is it really just CICO or is keto the answer? Vegan? Low carb? So many conflicting viewpoints and everyone has extremely convincing arguments.
Eat the food you can commit to for the long haul, have a goal in mind, and ensure you are eating to achieve that. If that happens to be buckets of oil and butter with some veggie vitamins, great. If it is nothing but Oreos, great.
It is as simple as CICO for weight loss.
How you feel, and what that weight looks like will be different, however. I would not recommend the Oreo diet plan.0 -
While most of what people here are saying has truths to it, losing weight is so much more complicated that calories in /calories out. I used to believe that too. And until I turned 50, it seemed to work for me. Then pre-menopause hit, and no matter what I did, I was GAINING weight. Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me. I ate mostly Mediterranean diet/no red meat all my life. Clean eating. As soon as my hormones started going wonky a couple yrs ago, all bets were off. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING helped. I run half marathons at least once per year. 12 weeks of training and wouldn't lose a single pound.
I got married 2 years ago, and wanted to look good for my wedding. I was carrying about 10 pounds more than I wanted. So I went to a nutritionist 2 months bf the wedding, frustrated bc I was training again for a half marathon, and wasn't seeing weight loss, in fact i was gaining weight. We decided to do Keto. He suggested I not run the half mara, and to just walk and do weights. So I pulled back on my working out (calories out) and followed keto with his help. I lost the 10 pounds in time for the wedding and felt and looked great! PS - my skin never looked better than when i was on Keto either.
Then, I went off keto and back to just clean eating. The weight creeped back up. In Jan 2019, I was 12-15 pds more than I wanted to be. Instead of Keto, I decided to start recording my food again (1200/day), and commit to working out 5 days/week (cardio and weights + yoga). From Jan - Mar, I lost nothing. NOTHING! My body did not want to give up the weight ( likely bc of hormones).
Last week, I was so fed up that I decided to go back to Keto and record everything (food, energy, exercise, measurements, weight and ketone levels throughout the day). Thus far, its been 5 days. I've lost 5 pounds and 1/2 inch in my waist, hips and thighs (where I tend to hold weight). I've been in mild-optimal ketosis since day 2 (0.7 -1.4 mmol). It's working great. Perhaps Keto is not for the average person, but if you struggle a lot with losing weight, are pre/post menopausal, or have certain diseases that have been shown to be helped by Keto, I'd do it. See a Nutritionist for a few visits to get the right information (lots is crap on the interwebs). Good luck!
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julesdechaine wrote: »Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me.
Ok, I'm not the only one who thought this sentence was a ridiculous.
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deedee3732 wrote: »Is it really just CICO or is keto the answer? Vegan? Low carb? So many conflicting viewpoints and everyone has extremely convincing arguments.
it's not one or the other. all the things you list after CICO (keto, vegan, low carb) are WAYS OF EATING with which you can lose, maintain or gain on. to stay in the lose side of things you need to eat less than you burn (CICO).
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Weight loss comes down to being at the correct calorie deficit for your weight loss goals. All dieting plans are based on that truth. How you go about creating that calorie deficit is up to you-if you think a more structured plan that has rules/restrictions, like keto, is something that would work best for you then give it a try and see how it goes. Or, if you think having a bit more flexibility would work best, you can try straight calorie counting/tracking which is what MFP is set up for.
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deedee3732 wrote: »Is it really just CICO or is keto the answer? Vegan? Low carb? So many conflicting viewpoints and everyone has extremely convincing arguments.
CICO simply means you need a calorie deficit to lose weight. That is science.
All the different diets are just different ways to get into a calorie deficit, and while you don't need a diet at all to achieve a calorie deficit, some people find different diets make it easier for them or make them feel better.
It's really not more complicated than that
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The one good thing about the low carb/Keto is that I'm not nearly as hungry all the time as I have been with just straight calorie counting.1
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CICO is the priority. How you achieve that is completely up to you and how it makes you feel, and fits in with your lifestyle. The best option is to find an approach that works for you and that is easily adaptable when you are wanting to move to maintenance so you don't have to start over with a new plan1
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GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.9 -
GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
These kinds of generic formulas and blanket macro splits rarely work for the masses. It fails to take into consideration activity level and an adjustable rate of loss once nearer to goal.
Your formula would have me at 1440 calories. Is that gross or net intake?
My TDEE is around 2100 so this would have me losing faster than 1 lb/week. Do you think that’s adviseable?
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deedee3732 wrote: »Is it really just CICO or is keto the answer? Vegan? Low carb? So many conflicting viewpoints and everyone has extremely convincing arguments.
CICO is an energy equation...it is at play always, regardless of what particular diet or WOE you are doing. All diets work the same way...you lose weight in a calorie (energy) deficit. Low carb, including keto may be beneficial for some if they have insulin resistance though I don't think going to the extreme of keto is remotely necessary...it's just the current diet de-joure. Some people also experience appetite suppression when they reduce carbohydrates which can aid in weight loss...I'm not one of them.
A calorie is just a unit of energy. You require XXXX amount of energy to maintain your existence, go about your day to day, perform exercise, etc. When you consume a balance of energy (ie your calories coming in are commensurate with your energy expenditure), you maintain your weight. When you consume energy in excess of what you require to maintain the status quo, that surplus energy is stored for later use as body fat. When you consume less energy than your body requires to perform all of its functions, you burn body fat to make up the difference...it's kind of like a backup generator...when you don't provide enough energy for your body, your backup generator kicks on to make up the difference.0 -
julesdechaine wrote: »Don't preach, because you wont find anyone thats not an elite athlete that eats and works out better than me.
Ok, I'm not the only one who thought this sentence was a ridiculous.
Nope. Anything after a statement like that is only eyeroll-worthy.
OP, It’s all about CICO. Buy a food scale, weigh everything and make sure you log accurately. Eat what you like, but keep within a reasonable calorie deficit. Crash diets make you suffer unnecessarily, and the fad diets are only trying to make CICO more complicated than it is. Counting calories doesn’t sound cool but it works if you give it a chance and do it properly.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
These kinds of generic formulas and blanket macro splits rarely work for the masses. It fails to take into consideration activity level and an adjustable rate of loss once nearer to goal.
Your formula would have me at 1440 calories. Is that gross or net intake?
My TDEE is around 2100 so this would have me losing faster than 1 lb/week. Do you think that’s adviseable?
I disagree - the masses generally aren't out burning 7-800 calories over and above their BMR. You shouldn't have to adjust once you get.closer to your goal in this formula because you'll be closer to homeostasis.
How do you calculate your TDEE and BMR? InBody Scan? Faulty online formulas? Blood test?7 -
Bottom line the only reason ANY diet works is because of CICO. There is no magical pill or eating formula outside of that to just absorb fat. (as much as I pray for this daily...lol) With that being said you need to find which of these methods works better for YOU. I have found that cutting out carbs and eating high fat works for me, for now.
The food is satisfying and I don't feel deprived. But for other ppl that love sugar and bread it wouldn't work for them if they felt deprived always.
You need to find what works for you. Ultimately, you don't have to cut anything out of your diet as long as you stick to the principle of CICO.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
These kinds of generic formulas and blanket macro splits rarely work for the masses. It fails to take into consideration activity level and an adjustable rate of loss once nearer to goal.
Your formula would have me at 1440 calories. Is that gross or net intake?
My TDEE is around 2100 so this would have me losing faster than 1 lb/week. Do you think that’s adviseable?
I disagree - the masses generally aren't out burning 7-800 calories over and above their BMR. You shouldn't have to adjust once you get.closer to your goal in this formula because you'll be closer to homeostasis.
How do you calculate your TDEE and BMR? InBody Scan? Faulty online formulas? Blood test?
How is your formula less "faulty" than other online formulas?
You start with a formula. You stick to that calorie goal for 6-8 weeks. You look at your real life results and tweak accordingly.
I would have been miserable on those macros. I feel so much more energetic when I eat @ 50% carbs and when I drop much lower than that I'm constantly hungry. I would also constantly struggle trying to get 33% protein, 100g seems to be the most I can stomach in a day. Hovering between 50/25/25, 50/20/30, 45/25/30 seems like the sweet spot for me. Generalizations are rarely helpful when stated as a rule, they are better as a starting point at best :drinker:9 -
GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
It's great that you've found a way that works for you but macros ratios are a pretty individual thing. When I bother to track my intake I'm usually at around 60% carbs because I eat a plant focused diet. Someone else may do better with a low carb macro ratio etc.
Also, your math doesn't work for me-if I do my current goal weight x12 it puts me at almost my maintenance calorie intake. That wouldn't get me to where I want to be at.2 -
I disagree - the masses generally aren't out burning 7-800 calories over and above their BMR.
Sure, the masses aren't but some of us are. I can easily burn 7-800 calories over my BMR when I go for a longish run. I burned 1100 calories on Sunday alone. How do I calculate my TDEE? Experience - it's 2100. I have been here for six years. I know what numbers contribute to weight loss for me. I know what numbers cause weight gain. I know what it takes for me to maintain. I also know what it takes to fuel my body, MY body, not yours or anyone elses. When I am training for a race, I need more carbs. When I am concentrating on weighlifting, I need more protein. Every person is different and assigning a blanket formula for success is ludicrous.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
These kinds of generic formulas and blanket macro splits rarely work for the masses. It fails to take into consideration activity level and an adjustable rate of loss once nearer to goal.
Your formula would have me at 1440 calories. Is that gross or net intake?
My TDEE is around 2100 so this would have me losing faster than 1 lb/week. Do you think that’s adviseable?
I disagree - the masses generally aren't out burning 7-800 calories over and above their BMR. You shouldn't have to adjust once you get.closer to your goal in this formula because you'll be closer to homeostasis.
How do you calculate your TDEE and BMR? InBody Scan? Faulty online formulas? Blood test?
BMR is the amount of calories your body needs to just sustain basic functions - anyone with a lightly active or higher lifestyle that incorporates exercise regularly is actually likely to be burning several hundred calories above their BMR.
Knowledge of my own TDEE comes from my FitBit and is borne out by my own data and results.
As others have said - macro percentages that provide satiety and fit within an individual’s preferred way of eating also vary from person to person. There are people who thrive on HCLF. There are people who need to eat very low carb diets in order to help manage medical conditions. There are people who find a balanced macro split to be optimal for their own satisfaction and adherence.
Again - blanket formulas rarely work but why not advise OP to start with the numbers provided by MFP and tweak from there?4 -
GOAL weight times 12 gives you your calorie goal.
37%carbs/33%protein/30% healthy fats.
by your numbers i should eat 1680cal a day (assuming a goal weight of 145lbs - which would put me in normal BMI)...haha, i would kill someone from hunger on that - i maintain (with a normal weight fluctuation) on 2700cal a day...1600 would have me in a pretty steep deficit2
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