Set point theory
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ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
Kittens are cute.7 -
collectingblues wrote: »ashleygroizard wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
The point is it seems to be becoming less and less healthy for your mind and you should talk to your therapist about it.
You have posted multiple times the same questions with increasingly anxious comments and yet haven't taken any of the advice onboard. Which leads me to believe that this isn't doing anything to help you at all.
Just above you have stated your therapist has told you you're not overweight (because you don't need to lose much weight) but you have repeatedly referred to yourself as fat/ugly in other threads.
You also state you don't have an eating disorder just healthy interest in fitness and health. This is contrary to what your doctors and therapist believe and is outright denial on your part.
For the sake of yourself and your family, take a step back from all the information that is overwhelming you and resulting in you misunderstanding many comments as personal attacks when they are clearly nothing of the sort. It's almost akin to an alcoholic partaking in a home brewing forum.
People here just want you to get the help of your treatment team so you can actually be healthy rather than enabling what is clearly an unhealthy mindset.
This. You are not currently 'getting help' here at all; because you are too busy getting angry and attacking people for imagined insults to actually take in any of the help that you claim to want. You're just spinning your wheels and getting increasingly defensive, which is a big red flag as regards your mental health.
Until you can work through why you react so badly to advice that you asked for, you're not going to get much out of these forums. You're just going to hurt people. And not just yourself, either, because you are not the only person on these forums who has issues.
When I talked about set point theory being used as an excuse for being fat? I was talking about people in the Fat Acceptance spheres I used to frequent. I was also talking about my past self. I suffer from anxiety and depression, have been in two emotionally abusive relationships, and have spent a lot of time in the past struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation; set point theory gave me a way to somewhat avoid the extra dose of self-hate that came from weighing 385 lb. It cost me a lot and took me a long time to admit to myself that it was an excuse for not having to cope with the effort required to lose weight, let alone to say it publicly. But I thought my experience might be a useful insight for someone else reading this thread.
Thankyou very much to the people above me who interpreted my post the way I'd intended it; that reassurance was much needed!
I am so sorry to you and everybody and I can understand because I have had a few suicidal attempts and have self harmed for over 20 years. I really didn’t want to make you feel like dirt. Maybe I should stay off my fitness pal because I take things the wrong way with my borderline personality disorder and I don’t mean to and I really don’t want to hurt anyone
No one said THAT.
Are you currently getting help in coping with your borderline? That’s the best thing you can do for yourself.
It sounds like OP has a team of professionals. If you're still here, OP, congrats for getting the resources you need.
However, it's possible these forums are not what OP needs right now. We're all laymen here, not trained practioners, and clearly not helping in your particular situation. Best of luck with your weight loss journey.6 -
OP - As someone who comes from a long background of disordered eating I think these boards may be triggering you. I understand that, as I sometimes also feel triggered by them and have to take some time away. I'm guessing that if you have been or are currently in treatment, your team would probably advise you to back away for a period of time until you can better identify and cope with the triggers. No one here is trying to kick you out or telling you to leave. We just want you to focus on your mental health first and losing weight second. I hope you can find some peace.13
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ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?ashleygroizard wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
The point is it seems to be becoming less and less healthy for your mind and you should talk to your therapist about it.
You have posted multiple times the same questions with increasingly anxious comments and yet haven't taken any of the advice onboard. Which leads me to believe that this isn't doing anything to help you at all.
Just above you have stated your therapist has told you you're not overweight (because you don't need to lose much weight) but you have repeatedly referred to yourself as fat/ugly in other threads.
You also state you don't have an eating disorder just healthy interest in fitness and health. This is contrary to what your doctors and therapist believe and is outright denial on your part.
For the sake of yourself and your family, take a step back from all the information that is overwhelming you and resulting in you misunderstanding many comments as personal attacks when they are clearly nothing of the sort. It's almost akin to an alcoholic partaking in a home brewing forum.
People here just want you to get the help of your treatment team so you can actually be healthy rather than enabling what is clearly an unhealthy mindset.
This. You are not currently 'getting help' here at all; because you are too busy getting angry and attacking people for imagined insults to actually take in any of the help that you claim to want. You're just spinning your wheels and getting increasingly defensive, which is a big red flag as regards your mental health.
Until you can work through why you react so badly to advice that you asked for, you're not going to get much out of these forums. You're just going to hurt people. And not just yourself, either, because you are not the only person on these forums who has issues.
When I talked about set point theory being used as an excuse for being fat? I was talking about people in the Fat Acceptance spheres I used to frequent. I was also talking about my past self. I suffer from anxiety and depression, have been in two emotionally abusive relationships, and have spent a lot of time in the past struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation; set point theory gave me a way to somewhat avoid the extra dose of self-hate that came from weighing 385 lb. It cost me a lot and took me a long time to admit to myself that it was an excuse for not having to cope with the effort required to lose weight, let alone to say it publicly. But I thought my experience might be a useful insight for someone else reading this thread.
Thankyou very much to the people above me who interpreted my post the way I'd intended it; that reassurance was much needed!
I am so sorry to you and everybody and I can understand because I have had a few suicidal attempts and have self harmed for over 20 years. I really didn’t want to make you feel like dirt. Maybe I should stay off my fitness pal because I take things the wrong way with my borderline personality disorder and I don’t mean to and I really don’t want to hurt anyone
I wish you all the best but don’t think this forum is a good match for you at this time. There is a lot of defensiveness and you seem to take everything that doesn’t agree with you as personal attack. Have seen multiple apologies within a few days. You speak of suicide attempts. You say you have a team of professionals, think it is in your best interest to utilize them to help you get healthy...and that includes far more than “fit toned body.”9 -
OP: I would caution you against getting weight loss advice from anyone but your treatment team, and especially be wary of strangers on the internet giving you weight loss advice. While the MFP boards are pretty good about shutting down dangerous advice, I have seen elsewhere people encouraging eating extremely few calories/fasting for weeks/months at a time, etc. with supposed scientific arguments and then also posting to pro-ana boards. There are sadly people out their who do not want other people with EDs to recover, who will actively try to discredit your treatment plan, and will act like the science is on their side. It is not. Even if you check someone's posting history, it can be hard to tell if a user is pro-ana, because they often use puppet accounts.
Anorexia is the most deadly mental disorder and it should be taken very seriously. Let your therapist help you.9 -
ashleygroizard wrote: »About fifteen or twenty years ago 'set point theory' was all over the Fat Acceptance sphere. It was overwhelmingly used as an excuse for being fat and not losing weight. 'My body just wants to be this weight' - how do you argue with that?
So now your calling me fat thanks. I am chubby not fat. I’m 1.7kgs off a healthy bmi. My doctor said I’m not overweight
Absolutely no one has called you fat.ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
I would talk to your therapist about it. It seems to me that with her explanation of the set point theory thing, she was trying to tell you to relax about weight loss/fitness and might not think that participating in this forum is a healthy thing for you right now. It is worrisome that you had such a defensive reaction to posts that were very clearly not directed at you or insulting at all.7 -
wow. reading this has been enlightening to me on a personal front. I see many of the OP's behaviours in actions and words i've taken MYSELF in the last few weeks (on a different topic than food/diet) right down to hurting others (friends, family) as I struggled and turned in circles of anxiety and stress.
OP - I wish you strength and send you love and support. Everyone just wants you to feel better and sometimes as we try to find MORE INFORMATION we just send ourselves spinning deeper and deeper into a bad rabbit hole. sometimes we need to step back and breath. work on mental well being first and foremost.15 -
ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
There are people who think, mental health wise, that this forum might is probably a good fit for you right now. You don't need to be here to get help nor to get a "healthy fit toned body". There are plenty of people who are in positions where what they might want to do isn't something they should be doing, you're not unique in that respect. And before you say anything, you're not the only one on here with serious mental health issues.6 -
collectingblues wrote: »ashleygroizard wrote: »tinkerbellang83 wrote: »ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
The point is it seems to be becoming less and less healthy for your mind and you should talk to your therapist about it.
You have posted multiple times the same questions with increasingly anxious comments and yet haven't taken any of the advice onboard. Which leads me to believe that this isn't doing anything to help you at all.
Just above you have stated your therapist has told you you're not overweight (because you don't need to lose much weight) but you have repeatedly referred to yourself as fat/ugly in other threads.
You also state you don't have an eating disorder just healthy interest in fitness and health. This is contrary to what your doctors and therapist believe and is outright denial on your part.
For the sake of yourself and your family, take a step back from all the information that is overwhelming you and resulting in you misunderstanding many comments as personal attacks when they are clearly nothing of the sort. It's almost akin to an alcoholic partaking in a home brewing forum.
People here just want you to get the help of your treatment team so you can actually be healthy rather than enabling what is clearly an unhealthy mindset.
This. You are not currently 'getting help' here at all; because you are too busy getting angry and attacking people for imagined insults to actually take in any of the help that you claim to want. You're just spinning your wheels and getting increasingly defensive, which is a big red flag as regards your mental health.
Until you can work through why you react so badly to advice that you asked for, you're not going to get much out of these forums. You're just going to hurt people. And not just yourself, either, because you are not the only person on these forums who has issues.
When I talked about set point theory being used as an excuse for being fat? I was talking about people in the Fat Acceptance spheres I used to frequent. I was also talking about my past self. I suffer from anxiety and depression, have been in two emotionally abusive relationships, and have spent a lot of time in the past struggling with self-harm and suicidal ideation; set point theory gave me a way to somewhat avoid the extra dose of self-hate that came from weighing 385 lb. It cost me a lot and took me a long time to admit to myself that it was an excuse for not having to cope with the effort required to lose weight, let alone to say it publicly. But I thought my experience might be a useful insight for someone else reading this thread.
Thankyou very much to the people above me who interpreted my post the way I'd intended it; that reassurance was much needed!
I am so sorry to you and everybody and I can understand because I have had a few suicidal attempts and have self harmed for over 20 years. I really didn’t want to make you feel like dirt. Maybe I should stay off my fitness pal because I take things the wrong way with my borderline personality disorder and I don’t mean to and I really don’t want to hurt anyone
No one said THAT.
Are you currently getting help in coping with your borderline? That’s the best thing you can do for yourself.
It sounds like OP has a team of professionals. If you're still here, OP, congrats for getting the resources you need.
However, it's possible these forums are not what OP needs right now. We're all laymen here, not trained practioners, and clearly not helping in your particular situation. Best of luck with your weight loss journey.
I agree entirely. I don't want her to feel forced away, but at the same time, this is *clearly* not helping her. She needs to be working with her team, and *listening* to them. And that includes the BPD professionals *and* the ED professionals -- this isn't an either/or situation.
One of my former friends -- she was my best friend for almost two decades -- has borderline. She refuses to get treatment, and instead says that other people just can't "handle" her. She often says that she thinks people just can't handle how she can sometimes be like a fire hose. Which isn't necessarily untrue -- but it's not the fault of the people around her.
When I refused to continue to make her the focus of the universe, she "split" me, and proceeded to tell everyone around her how awful I was, and how self-centered. Fortunately, our mutual friends basically went, "Um, I don't know what the problem is here, but she's not what you're saying she is". She's now trying to put me back in her life, after a year of telling people that I'm the devil, and I'm not giving in to her test -- which, from what I'm hearing, is pissing her off more. But I'm *done* dealing with someone who thinks that everyone else in the universe is wrong except for her.
And it's not her fault that she's mentally ill, but it also doesn't give her a free pass to treat others like garbage. And I'd say the same is true for the OP here. The OP needs to work with her treatment team, and let them help her, and let them help her find ways to manage her reactions to the world around her WITHOUT blaming everyone else.19 -
ashleygroizard wrote: »So there’s people who think I should not be on here getting help to get a healthy fit toned body?
Ok... you are being SUPER defensive. Dont start a tread and just EXPECT everyone to agree with you. That said, I have spoken to several "experts" in body composition. They TEND to believe is a more of a body fat settling point. A place where the body is "happy". What that is, is dependent on many variables. Activity level, diet, stress, sleep, genetics. Can you push lower than that? Well, yes. Is it. Just look at some competition body builders. Does it come with "Issues"? Yes! Ask any competition body builders at the end of a cut! Lol. Can that BF "settling" point change? Yes, most likely. Up or down. According to above variables. ..... Advice to OP....chill hun. This is a forum of all DIFFERENT opinions.7 -
I've been lurking since OP had posted. Having education and experience in mental health, I would suggest not continuing to explain the opposition to set point theory or trying to get the OP to see that she isn't being attacked. I'm no expert OP, but I hope your therapists are doing Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with you. I think that would benefit you the most with your BPD.10
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Silentpadna wrote: »Medications do not cause weight gain. They claim there are side effects, but in reality the claimed side effects are indirect. The one and only thing that causes weight gain (I'm talking about fat, not fluid), is a caloric surplus. There can be no other cause.
Poppycock!
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There is a book I listened to that talked about what I think you are referring to.
Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon (Ironic last name)
It was interesting. I'm not sure how much of it I buy but it was interesting nonetheless.
Why in the heck am I getting all the "Woos" for suggesting a book that discusses what the OP is asking about? No wonder she is feeling defensive!
Linda Bacon is revered by the fat acceptance community, in particular those who believe that obesity is not a health issue and that intentional weight loss is basically evil. She pretty much stands against the inherent goal of this site - that we are in control of our weight and fitness and can change those by changing out habits.26 -
RelCanonical wrote: »There is a book I listened to that talked about what I think you are referring to.
Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon (Ironic last name)
It was interesting. I'm not sure how much of it I buy but it was interesting nonetheless.
Why in the heck am I getting all the "Woos" for suggesting a book that discusses what the OP is asking about? No wonder she is feeling defensive!
Linda Bacon is revered by the fat acceptance community, in particular those who believe that obesity is not a health issue and that intentional weight loss is basically evil. She pretty much stands against the inherent goal of this site - that we are in control of our weight and fitness and can change those by changing out habits. It's kind of like handing out bibles at an atheist club and being all "thought this was interesting lol".
Ok, fine but it's what the OP asked about.
If someone asked me how to jump off a bridge because they wanted to, would I tell them? Nah, I'd tell them not to jump off the bridge! OP has a history on this site of asking things like this and they never go well because she needs professional help, not us yokels giving her advice without knowing the full scope of how she'll react to that knowledge.18 -
@ashleygroizard I have been at the same weight +/- ~15 lbs since high school (11+ years ago). I can track calories and lose 10 pounds, or spiral into unhealthy eating patterns and gain 10 pounds, but if I don't do anything I tend to stay at this same weight +/- 5 pounds. For me and others with my type of weight pattern, set-point theory could definitely be a real thing. I think it may not be a thing for people who haven't given their body enough time (maybe several years) to adjust to a new set point. Also I'm a registered dietitian
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Also, I didn't read the whole thread, just first and last pages. Some people have commented you have BPD. So do I. Sending you love and support
you're not alone. 6 -
RelCanonical wrote: »RelCanonical wrote: »There is a book I listened to that talked about what I think you are referring to.
Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon (Ironic last name)
It was interesting. I'm not sure how much of it I buy but it was interesting nonetheless.
Why in the heck am I getting all the "Woos" for suggesting a book that discusses what the OP is asking about? No wonder she is feeling defensive!
Linda Bacon is revered by the fat acceptance community, in particular those who believe that obesity is not a health issue and that intentional weight loss is basically evil. She pretty much stands against the inherent goal of this site - that we are in control of our weight and fitness and can change those by changing out habits. It's kind of like handing out bibles at an atheist club and being all "thought this was interesting lol".
Ok, fine but it's what the OP asked about.
If someone asked me how to jump off a bridge because they wanted to, would I tell them? Nah, I'd tell them not to jump off the bridge! OP has a history on this site of asking things like this and they never go well because she needs professional help, not us yokels giving her advice without knowing the full scope of how she'll react to that knowledge.
Sorry, I bothered. I thought I was being helpful by giving her information she could look at and decide for herself.15 -
ashleygroizard wrote: »Look everyone I was only asking about it and each one of you are having a go at me. I’m only trying to see if people have heard about it. I’m not sure if I should be letting my body choose what weight it wants to be that’s why I’m asking ...."
I stumbled onto this thread and read the first two or three pages. I cringed as I read many of the comments and I have great sympathy for Ashley. Yes, I have read a bit about body weight set point. However, it has been my personal experience that the body/mind unit is complicated mix of chemicals and genetics and that illness, medications and disorders will certainly have an impact -- positive or negative -- on that set point.
Ashley, I applaud you for working so hard to regain health and healthy habits; it ain't no picnic. It can be a long slog with many setbacks, so be gentle with yourself. So many people don't even try, but you obviously are choosing to stick with it. Keep working with your therapist and celebrate your victories, even the small ones. I've tried the set point theory a couple of times, but it was not the best path for me. You have a lot on your plate to deal with. I don't know where you are with spiritual faith, but for many years, I have had a plaque on my wall that says, "Lord, help me find my way through the changes in my life."
For those who responded to Ashley's feelings of being attacked, I have to say I would also have felt very attacked had those comments been directed at me. Responding with, "Oh, you're being defensive," is a form of psychoanalysis and hostility. To further suggest, "Maybe you should get off this forum," is flat-out dismissive and rejecting. Many of us, myself included, send very hostile messages without even realizing it.30 -
I stumbled onto this thread and read the first two or three pages. I cringed as I read many of the comments and I have great sympathy for Ashley. Yes, I have read a bit about body weight set point. However, it has been my personal experience that the body/mind unit is complicated mix of chemicals and genetics and that illness, medications and disorders will certainly have an impact -- positive or negative -- on that set point.ashleygroizard wrote: »Look everyone I was only asking about it and each one of you are having a go at me. I’m only trying to see if people have heard about it. I’m not sure if I should be letting my body choose what weight it wants to be that’s why I’m asking ...."
Ashley, I applaud you for working so hard to regain health and healthy habits; it ain't no picnic. It can be a long slog with many setbacks, so be gentle with yourself. So many people don't even try, but you obviously are choosing to stick with it. Keep working with your therapist and celebrate your victories, even the small ones. I've tried the set point theory a couple of times, but it was not the best path for me. You have a lot on your plate to deal with. I don't know where you are with spiritual faith, but for many years, I have had a plaque on my wall that says, "Lord, help me find my way through the changes in my life."
For those who responded to Ashley's feelings of being attacked, I have to say I would also have felt very attacked had those comments been directed at me. Responding with, "Oh, you're being defensive," is a form of psychoanalysis and hostility. To further suggest, "Maybe you should get off this forum," is flat-out dismissive and rejecting. Many of us, myself included, send very hostile messages without even realizing it.
It is sometimes hard to judge intent from written messages on an online forum.
Most people who write are not professional authors and many people who read post sometimes devote less time than what would have been necessary for them to fully grasp what the other person wrote. And misunderstandings ensue!
It has been suggested that reading posts out loud in a "computer generated" monotonous voice will often prove helpful at removing unintended (or non-existent) emotion and better help extract the actual message!
It is also probably safer to take people at their word as to what their intent was rather than to, for example, ascribe motives to them that they have stated they did not have.
Whether Ashley, or you, felt loved or not loved is not a matter for debate: I have to accept your statement as to how you feel.
I hope that you can also accept that the vast majority of people in this thread believe exactly what they openly state and do not have a hidden agenda, or desire, to be non-inclusive, or particularly insensitive.
I also hope that you will understand that this does not mean that every poster has an obligation to be even more accommodating if what they perceive as being reasonably accommodating of other people's feelings proves insufficient.23
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