Looking for Help Getting abs
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"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.11 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
11 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks14 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition16 -
Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP8
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Keto_Vampire wrote: »Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP
Agreed.6 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP
I'm afraid that your understanding of what fuel gets used and when is somewhat confused and, frankly, incorrect.
Nothing particularly wrong with this, it actually happens often (and funnily enough it also happens quite often with your apparent nemesis, keto proponents)!
And it wouldn't even be a big deal if you would take gentle hints.
The only issue exists because you're continuing to spout nonsense mixing in the occasional randomly correct fact while representing yourself as an expert!
Grab a text-book or some google foo -- heck, use bing and get some points from microsoft while you're at it--and add some bits of info into your grey matter! I promise that doing so won't hurt your abs and won't increase either your fat or your scale weight!
6 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.14 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Your body fat is your body's primary and by far the largest energy store - you add to, or use up, that energy store when you are in an energy surplus or deficit.
Yes you can eat lard (and other forms of fat) and lose loads of weight. Fun fact - Antarctic sledge haulers chomp on huge amounts of pure fats to try and slow the dramatic weight loss due to their energy expenditure.
It's not miniscule amounts of fat being burned for normal people - at rest you are running almost exclusively on fat with minimal use of carbs. Your body actually tries to conserve those extremely useful glycogen stores as glycogen storage for an average sized man comes to about 2,000 cals (liver and muscles primarily).
The 130bpm I mentioned above as my 50/50 point of using carbs is my all day cycling pace, that 50% is I'm sure you would agree is significant not miniscule.
My diet is high carb (highest day 650g), higher than normal protein and moderate fat. When I tracked macros protein was 1g/lb of LBM, fat 0.4g/lb of bodyweight as minimums and rest a free for all but mostly carbs.
You are confusing "carbs are the preferred source of energy" with that being sequential use of carbs and then fat. When you completely deplete your glycogen reserves, cyclists call it bonking (done that - it was awful), runners call it hitting the wall you are barely able to function let alone exercise. Sudden crushing fatigue, mental confusion, loss of coordination.
Here's an example....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liCRrheKIOI
7 -
@dtilka I love nuts. I eat some days(say one or two times in week) 100~200g of mixed nuts (500~1000kcal from this fats) plus 60~80g from normal food. So I did it during my one year transformation. Yes I take care about appropriate level of carbs and proteins too. Ok. Physiology behind fat was already described well by others. Btw. Choleaterol. Do you know that there is LDL and HDL? Finally an example (3 months,6 months,6 months, recent weeks/1year) You can see a role of BF (quite constant), excercise, and fat as food on Abs. I think this was the key topic here. Unfortunatelly, I have no photo from day zero(just no abs).
5 -
@dtilka I love nuts. I eat some days(say one or two times in week) 100~200g of mixed nuts (500~1000kcal from this fats) plus 60~80g from normal food. So I did it during my one year transformation. Yes I take care about appropriate level of carbs and proteins too. Ok. Physiology behind fat was already described well by others. Btw. Choleaterol. Do you know that there is LDL and HDL? Finally an example (3 months,6 months,6 months, recent weeks/1year) You can see a role of BF (quite constant), excercise, and fat as food on Abs. I think this was the key topic here. Unfortunatelly, I have no photo from day zero(just no abs).
I don’t think we will change his mind. Fat is stored as fat because to him that’s perfectly logical. Ignoring that dietary fat isn’t the same as body fat. I gave up when he said energy balance is nonsense4 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Your body fat is your body's primary and by far the largest energy store - you add to, or use up, that energy store when you are in an energy surplus or deficit.
Yes you can eat lard (and other forms of fat) and lose loads of weight. Fun fact - Antarctic sledge haulers chomp on huge amounts of pure fats to try and slow the dramatic weight loss due to their energy expenditure.
It's not miniscule amounts of fat being burned for normal people - at rest you are running almost exclusively on fat with minimal use of carbs. Your body actually tries to conserve those extremely useful glycogen stores as glycogen storage for an average sized man comes to about 2,000 cals (liver and muscles primarily).
The 130bpm I mentioned above as my 50/50 point of using carbs is my all day cycling pace, that 50% is I'm sure you would agree is significant not miniscule.
My diet is high carb (highest day 650g), higher than normal protein and moderate fat. When I tracked macros protein was 1g/lb of LBM, fat 0.4g/lb of bodyweight as minimums and rest a free for all but mostly carbs.
You are confusing "carbs are the preferred source of energy" with that being sequential use of carbs and then fat. When you completely deplete your glycogen reserves, cyclists call it bonking (done that - it was awful), runners call it hitting the wall you are barely able to function let alone exercise. Sudden crushing fatigue, mental confusion, loss of coordination.
Here's an example....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liCRrheKIOI
Fat is NOT the largest energy store. The amount of carbs and glycogen are. Fat is secondary energy source. If you really want to get into the specifics even MUSCLE is a store of energy and can be depleted.
Yes you can eat lard and lose “loads of weight” (calorie deficit). But you’re going to have a hard time losing “loads of fat”. fat = fat. What is so confusing about this?!
Now you’re talking about Antarctic sled haulers...are you one of them? Once again Have you heard of carbohydrates? They are broken down to release energy in the human body. Fat is not a PRIMARY source of energy consumption unless in ketosis (ran out of carbs). You just said it yourself “minimal use of carbs”. The only time 50/50 burning would even remotely make sense is if you have little to no carbs in your body whatsoever. The ratios don’t work like that.
You’re eating 650 carbs, 1 g/lb of body weight AND .4 g per lb of fat? How many calories is that? And somehow 650 carbs is split 50/50 with fat when you cycle? Lies.
Hitting the wall? When gycogen stores are depleted? You heard of the glycemic index? Simple carbs and complex carbs are on that list. They convert into glucose. Cyclists are burning so much amount of energy if they were to eat no carbs then they would turn to solely burning fat (ketosis) with horrible side effects. Yes they would burn fat off their body. That’s not the issue here. If they were to eat a huge amount of carbs, that would help fuel their workout on another level than solely eating pure lard would. Please tell me how this is wrong?@dtilka I love nuts. I eat some days(say one or two times in week) 100~200g of mixed nuts (500~1000kcal from this fats) plus 60~80g from normal food. So I did it during my one year transformation. Yes I take care about appropriate level of carbs and proteins too. Ok. Physiology behind fat was already described well by others. Btw. Choleaterol. Do you know that there is LDL and HDL? Finally an example (3 months,6 months,6 months, recent weeks/1year) You can see a role of BF (quite constant), excercise, and fat as food on Abs. I think this was the key topic here. Unfortunatelly, I have no photo from day zero(just no abs).
Nuts and lard are completely different. There are healthy fats. An Avacado is healthier than pure lard. This still doesn’t detract from how fat is NOT PRIMARILY used as an energy source unless carbs are essentially non existant.
“Physiology behind fat was already described well by others” what do you mean? The ones who said fat doesn’t make you fat?
Fat is Fat. Period.
Speaking of cholesterol, you ever heard of LDL and HDL being regulated and produced solely by your own body? And that NO outside source is needed, but actually increases your risk of heart disease? There’s no cholesterol in plants. So please tell me how cholesterol from an animal is good for you?@dtilka I love nuts. I eat some days(say one or two times in week) 100~200g of mixed nuts (500~1000kcal from this fats) plus 60~80g from normal food. So I did it during my one year transformation. Yes I take care about appropriate level of carbs and proteins too. Ok. Physiology behind fat was already described well by others. Btw. Choleaterol. Do you know that there is LDL and HDL? Finally an example (3 months,6 months,6 months, recent weeks/1year) You can see a role of BF (quite constant), excercise, and fat as food on Abs. I think this was the key topic here. Unfortunatelly, I have no photo from day zero(just no abs).
I don’t think we will change his mind. Fat is stored as fat because to him that’s perfectly logical. Ignoring that dietary fat isn’t the same as body fat. I gave up when he said energy balance is nonsense
Fat is stored as fat. Yes. What happens to that fat depends on how your body decides to burn it.
Energy balance is NONSESE, WHEN IT COMES TO HOW FAT IS BURNED!!! Energy balance (for those who don’t know) is calories in (food) vs. calories out (energy depletion working out etc). Energy balance is for weight gain or weight loss. We’re talking about the specifics of how fat does make you fat (PUTS FAT ON YOUR BODY) but people are saying no you burn fat, I’m saying yes you burn fat but not as much as carbs, carbs are primary source, then they say no fat is burned at the same rate or that it’s burned 50/50 or that it can solely be burned which only comes from ketosis.
I’ve done my research. Plant based High Carb low fat For the Win13 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP
I'm afraid that your understanding of what fuel gets used and when is somewhat confused and, frankly, incorrect.
Nothing particularly wrong with this, it actually happens often (and funnily enough it also happens quite often with your apparent nemesis, keto proponents)!
And it wouldn't even be a big deal if you would take gentle hints.
The only issue exists because you're continuing to spout nonsense mixing in the occasional randomly correct fact while representing yourself as an expert!
Grab a text-book or some google foo -- heck, use bing and get some points from microsoft while you're at it--and add some bits of info into your grey matter! I promise that doing so won't hurt your abs and won't increase either your fat or your scale weight!
I’m incorrect yet don’t prove a point but say I should look on google or read books...Anyone on the keto diet has to deal with the effects of ketosis. The negatives far outweigh the positive. Why eat solely/primarily fat for energy when you can primarily eat carbs for energy? I’d love to hear some hints that I’m missing
Which part is nonsense and which part is correct fact? Once again I hear that I’m wrong but you can’t tell me which part? Thank you for your help!9 -
Keto_Vampire wrote: »Sigh...entropy ensures...a request for order/focus on original topic by OP
I'm afraid that your understanding of what fuel gets used and when is somewhat confused and, frankly, incorrect.
Nothing particularly wrong with this, it actually happens often (and funnily enough it also happens quite often with your apparent nemesis, keto proponents)!
And it wouldn't even be a big deal if you would take gentle hints.
The only issue exists because you're continuing to spout nonsense mixing in the occasional randomly correct fact while representing yourself as an expert!
Grab a text-book or some google foo -- heck, use bing and get some points from microsoft while you're at it--and add some bits of info into your grey matter! I promise that doing so won't hurt your abs and won't increase either your fat or your scale weight!
I’m incorrect yet don’t prove a point but say I should look on google or read books...Anyone on the keto diet has to deal with the effects of ketosis. The negatives far outweigh the positive. Why eat solely/primarily fat for energy when you can primarily eat carbs for energy? I’d love to hear some hints that I’m missing
Which part is nonsense and which part is correct fact? Once again I hear that I’m wrong but you can’t tell me which part? Thank you for your help!
Why is it one extreme or the other, high carb low fat vs low carb high fat? What about balance... adequate protein, a decent amount of fat to support hormone and body function, and the rest carbs. This works for a lot of people, myself and many others in this thread who have found success and got lean and possess ab definition.
You are vegan. Great. It works for you. Great. There are other ways of eating that work for other people (clearly).10 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Fat is the preferred substrate while at rest, not carbohydrates - about 60% of energy used I believe. The muscles of the heart, in fact, will only use fat fuel.
The organ that has a preferential use of carbohydrates is the brain because of the blood-brain barrier - glucose can cross it, as can ketones, but fatty acids can't. That is what induces ketosis - the need to continue feeding the brain but glucose is too low in the body.
Deficits allow you to lose total weight and until you are very lean, internal lipid storage is very much the preferential source for that weight. It is the body fat percentage that generally governs what the partition ration is for lost mass.
So long as you are eating at a deficit, you most certainly could eat some lard and lose weight.
So much misinformation. Look up the glycemic index. It’s how quickly carbs are converted into glucose (sugar).
Deficits allow you to lose total weight yes. Yes you can lose weight while eating lard. NOT WHAT WERE TALKING ABOUT. I said FAT makes you FAT. Yes. Yes You will lose weight but gain fat eating lard on a caloric deficit. YES you can burn that fat SOLELY (not burning carbs) if in ketosis thus (Not being fat) . For those of you who haven’t been in ketosis before, it’s very hard to enter because you need to deplete all your carbs.
Does it make sense to put your body in ketosis to burn primarily fat so you can eat lard all day everyday or eat carbs which are a number 1 priority to be burned as fuel and keep the fat to a minimum?
12 -
@jdog022 You are right/ I was asking him at the early beginning if he sees a difference between BF and fat as nutrient. Unfortunatelly, my message was dropped (mfp bug?) amongst few others(from other ppl with great notes). And you are also right.... my "exhibition" was totaly pointless. He is turning his arguments as he reads something new and applies all known discussion/argumentation falacies.
@Dtilka sorry for Ad hominem, all important was said by others, I don't want to participate in this kind of discussion. I see no problem when you live in conformity with your research but please before you start propagation campaign run at least one real clinical study first.
8 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.8 -
@jdog022 You are right/ I was asking him at the early beginning if he sees a difference between BF and fat as nutrient. Unfortunatelly, my message was dropped (mfp bug?) amongst few others(from other ppl with great notes). And you are also right.... my "exhibition" was totaly pointless. He is turning his arguments as he reads something new and applies all known discussion/argumentation falacies.
@Dtilka sorry for Ad hominem, all important was said by others, I don't want to participate in this kind of discussion. I see no problem when you live in conformity with your research but please before you start propagation campaign run at least one real clinical study first.
Glad I could help you out 👍 I stick to the facts. I have no problem with ad hominem attacks. I gave no fallacies. Some people refuse to believe the truth. Meta-analysis, Peer reviewed journals, mechanistic data studies don’t matter anymore I guess 😪
It’s alright. There’s three stages of truth: ridicule, opposition, then acceptance
9 -
"Fat doesn’t make you fat?!?! OHHH OKAY. You’re delusional. Lemme guess, you’re on the keto diet?! The only time fat is ever burned as energy is when you don’t have any carbs left for energy and your body switches to ketosis to start burning fat as energy. Horrible side effects to ketosis. "
That paragraph is twaddle.
You don't burn all carbs and then turn to fat - you burn a blend of both fuels nearly all the time in different ratios.
Get yourself to a sport science lab @Dtilka and they can hook you up to a gas analyser to tell you your percentages. It wasn't until I was exercising at a brisk pace (130+bpm) that my use of carbs exceeded my use of fat for fuel.
You also don't need to be in ketosis to burn fat - it's a perfectly normal fuel used by humans virtually all of the times, predominates at rest or low intensity activity/exercise.
Yes you can eat lard and lose body fat, all you need a calorie deficit. It's comes down to energy balance not macro choice.
You may be qualified to give training guidance but your nutritional knowledge is woeful I'm afraid.
Thank you for the response brother. I never said you don’t burn body fat EVER. Yes you are right minuscule amount of fat is burned too when working out but no where near the amount of carbs. If you have no carbs then your body resorts to burning fat solely for energy/fuel I.e ketosis - with horrible side effects.
No you can’t eat lard and lose body fat. You’re eating fat therefore you are gaining fat on your body period. Calorie deficits ONLY allow you to lose total WEIGHT. Energy balance is nonsense.
I’m High Carb low fat plant based diet (Vegan) .
I eat over 600-800 carbs per day, and less than 60 grams of fat. Oh and 180 grams of protein.
Yes I have muscle. Yes I have abs. What about you my friend what diet do you adhere to?
Are you saying eating higher fat while in a deficit, you will gain fat? I eat around 100g of fat when cutting, as well as 250-300g carbs. I don't eat only lard, obviously, but while cutting I do incorporate it when it is around (mostly from cured ham or prosciutto) and I have no issues losing bodyfat, actually I get quite lean especially for a female.
If energy balance is nonsense that would be great news for people who struggle to put on weight and have limited access to food all they would need is some fat to gain and wouldn't have to eat very much. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Woah woah woah. Many factors in play here. Eating higher fat while in a caloric deficit will cause you to lose weight but gain more fat. The lard was a joke. No one in their right mind should eat lard, it was an example for how eating lard (pure fat) will cause you to gain fat. Fat = fat. It’s not that crazy of an idea...you’re also gaining cholesterol and other non beneficial ingredients when eating cured ham and prosciutto. 250-300 carbs is low. No wonder you’re burning fat, you don’t even have a lot of carbs...Like I said I get 600-800g of carbs (complex+simple) a day and it’s still not enough because of how hard it allows me to go in the gym (more energy = higher performance). Why do a huge percentage of NFL players have to eat high carbs to perform at that high level?
If you’re talking “energy balance” how about you get more energy? Carbs.
What are you talking about with “all they’d have to do is eat some fat and they’d gain weight”?! No. They need higher calorie intake to gain weight. A calorie surplus. If they eat a bunch of fat they will gain fat. Unfortunately I don’t agree with your points.
Unfortunately my results disagree with yours.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you about cholesterol 👍
My cholesterol levels are perfect and I come from a family that lives well into their 90s and above eating this type of diet. I'm good thanks
Never heard of perfect cholesterol when taking in from outside sources. I think abnormal is the correct definition
You do realize that your body produces much more cholesterol than most people get from their diet. dietary cholesterol actually has very little impact on blood cholesterol, though should be limited if you already have, or are at risk of high cholesterol. the best thing you can do for blood cholesterol is to maintain a healthy weight and live an active lifestyle... a lot of people with cholesterol issues, is due to genetics not diet.
“I do realize” that you “don’t realize” no DIETARY cholesterol benefits the body. The only cholesterol anyone needs is produced by their own bodies. You can’t have high cholesterol on a plant based diet because there is no cholesterol from an outside source. Your own body regulates it. Healthy weight and active lifestyle doesn’t protect you. Heart disease is the number 1 cause of death. Stop eating meat and cheese before it’s too late. Cholesterol issues are due to diet not genetics.
12
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