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Is protein truly more satiating?

magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 740Member Member Posts: 740Member Member
Just read this from Menno Henselmans:
https://mennohenselmans.com/protein-is-not-more-satiating-than-carbs-and-fats

It seems and interesting nuance to the protein satiety claim: protein is more satiating when the diet is already low in it, but it loses the effect for high protein diets that meet and exceed protein needs.
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Replies

  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 740Member Member Posts: 740Member Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...

    Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.
  • psychod787psychod787 Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...

    Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.

    What's your definition of low? USDA? Whole foods vegan? Ect...
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 740Member Member Posts: 740Member Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    Well... most research shows that on a per calorie unit basis... yes...

    Does it though? The article says the research is mixed and posits that it only shows as high when intake is already low.

    What's your definition of low? USDA? Whole foods vegan? Ect...

    Below 15-20% of dietary intake is the range the article uses.
  • psychod787psychod787 Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

    As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

    Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...
  • lemurcat2lemurcat2 Posts: 3,165Member Member Posts: 3,165Member Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

    As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

    Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...

    I'm aware of those studies, but I'm just saying I think there's more to it. For example, potato scoring high on satiety studies.

    I wasn't talking about personal preference (although I also think people differ on what is sating to them), but it being more complicated.
    edited May 16
  • psychod787psychod787 Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member Posts: 2,296Member, Premium Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

    As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

    Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...

    I'm aware of those studies, but I'm just saying I think there's more to it. For example, potato scoring high on satiety studies.

    I wasn't talking about personal preference (although I also think people differ on what is sating to them), but it being more complicated.

    I think... personally, it's the energy density and palatablility that helps the lowly boiled potato be so satisfying. I will tell you as an n=1 here.... a PLAIN boiled potato will sit in my stomach like a box of rocks! Lol
  • magnusthenerdmagnusthenerd Posts: 740Member Member Posts: 740Member Member
    psychod787 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

    As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

    Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...

    I'm not sure it does go against most research.
    He links an analysis of 38 studies for the idea that the satiety effect doesn't exist past the 15-20% range.
    https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/101/6/1320S/4564492
    If protein is more satiating in the low range, it doesn't go against most research to say it isn't the most satiating outside of that range.
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 11,892Member Member Posts: 11,892Member Member
    Even in a context where I believe satiation is very, very individual, I'd expect there'd be some central tendencies in any sensible studies across decent-sized populations, whether the point being examined was one macro vs. others, or specific food choices. Those two things (individuality and common tendencies) are really not in tension with one another. We're all unique . . . but not to the point of flat-lining normal curves. ;)

    I appreciate what the article is saying.

    But I don't think there's any obvious major guidance toward one's n = 1 answer, without running n =1 experiments. The studies may give us some higher-probability starting points for experiments, and that's about it, IMO.
  • CSARdiverCSARdiver Posts: 5,943Member Member Posts: 5,943Member Member
    Satiety is in constant fluctuation, so this makes sense. Not only are we unique, but this uniqueness is compounded within time. What satiates you today may not be what satiates you tomorrow or a decade from now.

    Much like "intuitive eating" there's a fundamental flaw in the logic as if there is a constant and if we could just figure this out then everyone would be healthy.
  • John5877John5877 Posts: 12Member Member Posts: 12Member Member
    There’s nothing more satiating than leafy greens to me, because I dislike every mouthful even tho I eat them daily.
  • mbaker566mbaker566 Posts: 9,718Member Member Posts: 9,718Member Member
    nonscientifically: it's not just protein. i need fat too.

    i do think ymmv. i think i find fat the most satiating. cheese/dairy
  • whmscllwhmscll Posts: 2,124Member Member Posts: 2,124Member Member
    I find fat the most satiating, too, protein definitely not as much. I find carbs very satiating but only for a very short time.
  • neugebauer52neugebauer52 Posts: 847Member Member Posts: 847Member Member
    Thank you for this interesting discussion point. I have tried different approaches for all meals of the day. I have always been a "small breakfast" eater, usually start eating some food towards lunch time. I have tried a spoon of wheat bran dissolved in hot water once in a while and that gives me a full feeling (satiated?) for hours and hours - don't even want to think about food until dinner time. Certainly not a healthy meal plan, just a (unhealthy?) observation...
  • OrphiaOrphia Posts: 6,877Member Member Posts: 6,877Member Member
    Thanks for the great article in the OP!


    "A review of 38 studies concluded protein is more satiating than carbs and fats in the 10-20% of energy intake range but not above that, indicating the average satiety sweet spot is a protein intake of 20% of energy intake, corresponding to about 1.2 g/kg/d for non-strength training individuals. The effect was far stronger for self-reported satiety than actual eating behavior: ad libitum energy intake didn’t reliably decrease even at lower protein intakes. The optimum protein intake for satiety was closely in line with the optimal protein intake for body recomposition and health (1.2 – 1.6 g/kg/d)."

    Haha, that pretty much sums my protein percentage up!

    I've been logging everything in MFP over 4 years, (lost 35 kg and have maintained 3 years) and never really pay any attention to trying to hit macros, and they have consistently been an average of 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs the whole time.

    I love how I was about to say through most of it, but what about fibre? Yep, at the end, he says how fruit and veg are good at filling you up. :smile:

    You can use them to bulk up your plate and stomach with volume for very few calories.

    And I find now that a 300 kilojoule piece of fruit is satiating and lets me stop eating whereas an 800 kilojoule biscuit/cookie makes me want another.

    Sometimes, of course, I'm happy to use my calorie limit on a couple of biscuits. That's a form of satiation too.

    Other days, too, I'll have a 400 kilojoule choc protein bar if I can sort of feel I need it.

    I learned a good word last week:

    "Interoception"

    https://theconversation.com/understanding-body-signals-could-be-a-key-factor-in-eating-disorders-111559

    "Research has begun to explore how our [lack of] awareness and perception of our body signals (known as interoception) contribute to disordered eating. Interoception includes perceiving various internal sensations from the body. It means noticing things like how quickly your heart is beating, how heavily you are breathing, how hot or cold you are, and whether you are feeling hungry or full."

    It's risky just following the "intuitive eating" idea - but not if you're also using a logical knowledge of the caloric content of food you can choose to eat.



  • SkinnyShannSoonSkinnyShannSoon Posts: 15Member Member Posts: 15Member Member
    I remember used to be on a strict low carb diet years ago, and I was very dedicated, and really stuck to it. I lost 30 pounds pretty darn quick. My go to every morning was this restaurant that was close to the company I worked for. We would walk next door every AM and get a loaded omelet (the works!). It has eggs, cheese, bacon, sausage, onion, bell peppers, spinach, touch of salsa. It was huge! It was yummy! It was so filling! I could go for hours way past lunch into the early afternoon before I started getting hungry. Nothing else really does it for me in the AM. This was a nice reminder to try that again.

    So, for me, definitely, I am definitely more satisfied and feelll fuller longer with protein. If I eat carby/sugary stuff, I want more. Give me a bagel and cream chees toasted, and oh, I want another. Give me a loaded omelet (less calories I'm pretty sure), and I'm good to go.
    edited May 18
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