Is protein truly more satiating?

lemurcat2 wrote: »

I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...

psychod787 wrote: »

lemurcat2 wrote: »

I increasingly find that satiety is more complicated for me than just macros. There are breakfasts I find filling and those I do not, lunches I do and lunches I do not, and I used to think the difference was protein, but have come to see it's not. Not for me, anyway. It is food choice, but not protein amount (my diet isn't low protein, although it's lower in protein than it used to be).

As I just mentioned in another thread, it's possible to find potato sating and not bread, or beef (or shrimp) but not a protein shake.

Personal preference is important, but there are some studies that point to certain food qualities that TEND to make some foods more satisfying than others. Protein is one. Well old Henselman is interesting, but it goes against most research. I won't lie that fat is very satisfying to most people, but on a per calorie basis, protein seems to be king...

I'm aware of those studies, but I'm just saying I think there's more to it. For example, potato scoring high on satiety studies.

I wasn't talking about personal preference (although I also think people differ on what is sating to them), but it being more complicated.

Even in a context where I believe satiation is very, very individual, I'd expect there'd be some central tendencies in any sensible studies across decent-sized populations, whether the point being examined was one macro vs. others, or specific food choices. Those two things (individuality and common tendencies) are really not in tension with one another. We're all unique . . . but not to the point of flat-lining normal curves.

I appreciate what the article is saying.

But I don't think there's any obvious major guidance toward one's n = 1 answer, without running n =1 experiments. The studies may give us some higher-probability starting points for experiments, and that's about it, IMO.

There’s nothing more satiating than leafy greens to me, because I dislike every mouthful even tho I eat them daily.

I find fat the most satiating, too, protein definitely not as much. I find carbs very satiating but only for a very short time.

Thanks for the great article in the OP!


"A review of 38 studies concluded protein is more satiating than carbs and fats in the 10-20% of energy intake range but not above that, indicating the average satiety sweet spot is a protein intake of 20% of energy intake, corresponding to about 1.2 g/kg/d for non-strength training individuals. The effect was far stronger for self-reported satiety than actual eating behavior: ad libitum energy intake didn’t reliably decrease even at lower protein intakes. The optimum protein intake for satiety was closely in line with the optimal protein intake for body recomposition and health (1.2 – 1.6 g/kg/d)."

Haha, that pretty much sums my protein percentage up!

I've been logging everything in MFP over 4 years, (lost 35 kg and have maintained 3 years) and never really pay any attention to trying to hit macros, and they have consistently been an average of 20% protein, 30% fat, 50% carbs the whole time.

I love how I was about to say through most of it, but what about fibre? Yep, at the end, he says how fruit and veg are good at filling you up.

You can use them to bulk up your plate and stomach with volume for very few calories.

And I find now that a 300 kilojoule piece of fruit is satiating and lets me stop eating whereas an 800 kilojoule biscuit/cookie makes me want another.

Sometimes, of course, I'm happy to use my calorie limit on a couple of biscuits. That's a form of satiation too.

Other days, too, I'll have a 400 kilojoule choc protein bar if I can sort of feel I need it.

I learned a good word last week:

"Interoception"

https://theconversation.com/understanding-body-signals-could-be-a-key-factor-in-eating-disorders-111559

"Research has begun to explore how our [lack of] awareness and perception of our body signals (known as interoception) contribute to disordered eating. Interoception includes perceiving various internal sensations from the body. It means noticing things like how quickly your heart is beating, how heavily you are breathing, how hot or cold you are, and whether you are feeling hungry or full."

It's risky just following the "intuitive eating" idea - but not if you're also using a logical knowledge of the caloric content of food you can choose to eat.

Avocados and Eggs are super satiating for me over a long period of time. Calorie for calorie, you have to choose leafy greens. However duration of satiation is also a factor, and good fats seem to win this battle. Add eggs, avocado and MCT oil to a spinach salad and holy satiation combo. Protein and the length of time it satiates me really depends on the amount processing and the amount of quality fat in the meat. JMHO.

SkinnyShannSoon wrote: »

I remember used to be on a strict low carb diet years ago, and I was very dedicated, and really stuck to it. I lost 30 pounds pretty darn quick. My go to every morning was this restaurant that was close to the company I worked for. We would walk next door every AM and get a loaded omelet (the works!). It has eggs, cheese, bacon, sausage, onion, bell peppers, spinach, touch of salsa. It was huge! It was yummy! It was so filling! I could go for hours way past lunch into the early afternoon before I started getting hungry. Nothing else really does it for me in the AM. This was a nice reminder to try that again.

So, for me, definitely, I am definitely more satisfied and feelll fuller longer with protein. If I eat carby/sugary stuff, I want more. Give me a bagel and cream chees toasted, and oh, I want another. Give me a loaded omelet (less calories I'm pretty sure), and I'm good to go.

Was it the protein or the protein-fat combo that did it? the loaded omelet had plenty of both.
Would a plain dry broiled chicken breast, say, leave you as satisfied?

Fiber, defintely.

Examine.com published an article recently, "5 little-known facts about protein", which includes the following...

Protein increases satiety more than carbohydrate and fat do, by increasing thermogenesis and through the direct effect of its constituent amino acids (notably leucine) on the brain.

Lot's more details in the article. Seems pertinent to this discussion so am sharing...

"Yet outside the lab in free-living prospective studies, the consumption of high protein foods is not consistently associated with fat loss [2]."

This next article is about those kind of studies: http://www.zoeharcombe.com/2019/06/white-meat-as-bad-as-red-meat-for-cholesterol/

Cutting to the nut: The so-called 'study' of free-living food choices are not worth a cup of spit.

magnusthenerd wrote: »

I feel like a number of people have missed the link that was the start of this thread.
In it, Menno gives an hypothesis based on the research on protein and satiety so far: that protein is highly satiating in a narrow dietary percentage. Once it goes over that percentage, it becomes the least satiating, and that other characteristics beyond macronutrients matter for food satiety predictions.

I understand. His conclusions may be compelling, but his data are not repeatable.